Problem with ProRes 422 HQ codec

[BUS74]

Good morning.
I have a ZCAM E2 F6 with Atomos Ninja V and I use Premiere PRO rel. 22.1.2 for editing and color grading.

I noticed that by recording in ProRes 422 HQ both on the ninja V and directly in the Zcam camera and then applying the Lut Zcam zlog2_ax2_normal, but also by manually intervening in the color grading, halos are created. This is most noticeable in controlled light recording, but it also happens in landscape shots, especially in the sky.
The same clip developed on Apple Final Cut with the same Lut is perfect!
The same recording in H.265 codec in Zcam camera is perfect on both Premiere Pro and Final Cut.

I am attaching 3 screenshots of a frame with the three versions where the halos are clearly visible. Obviously processed with Premiere Pro rel 22.1.2

The problem also occurs in the older version of Premiere Pro.

I use a Macbook Pro 16 "with macos 12.1 64gb ram and AMD Radeon Pro 5500M 8 GB

Has anyone ever had a problem like this?
Is there a particular way to parameterize Premiere Pro?

Thanks for your suggestions!

clauio

Italy

[chrisw44157881]

I checked your newest post with the Prores Ninja mov color chart and it had massive banding. I then transcoded it to Prores 444XQ and the banding was gone. Also, the RGB parade went from looking jagged to being smooth when I converted it to 444XQ, so this aligns with my color chart tests as well. The only thing left to do is go through every codec in an excel spreadsheet and see which oness are safe. There's about 200 of them to check though and so far im only aware of 444XQ and h.264 being ok.

so, in my humble opinion, its not the 422 or h.265 which is better, because you can fix 422 by turning it into 444XQ transcode. the good data doesn't magically appear, it's still there, just interpreted wrong.

[BUS74]

OK in the weekend I try to transcode in ProRes 444XQ
thank you

[BUS74]

Hi crisw44157881

Maybe I understood what you tried to explain to me and I did the tests you suggested.
In fact I have to confirm that it works !!

Basically I try to summarize and sorry but undoubtedly I'm a beginner !! I am also attaching screenshots where I recall the letters next to the red arrows:

1) I develop the ProRes HQ clip recorded on the Ninja V on Premiere Pro by applying Lut, various corrections.

2) when I run the clip on Premiere PRO I see the famous "banding"

3) if I export it with CMD-M on MAC in H.264 or H.265 the "banding" remains and it shows !!!

4) if I export with CMD-M on MAC in ProRes 422 or ProRes 422 HQ or ProRes 4444XQ with the parameters you see in the screenshot under items A-B-C the final result is perfect!

So if I understood correctly Preiemre PRO, when viewing an H.265 clip with all the settings, it shows it well and if you always export it in H.265 or H.264 it is perfect.

If, on the other hand, the original clip is a ProRes HQ Premiere Pro does not display it correctly by inserting the "banding". Then when I export it to ProRes (here I noticed whether it is 422 or 422 HQ or 4444XQ) the file produced by viewing it with Quiktime palyer is perfect.

Do you think the explanation is the correct one?

If so, does Premiere PRO in editing and color grading with an original clip in ProRes HQ have a bug in displaying the clip in the main monitor?

Do you think this is a correct statement?

Thanks for the support you are super!

[R Neil Haugen]

How about going to the sequence settings for the original Zcam & Ninja ProRes clips, and set the Max Bit Depth and Max Render Q switches to on?

I think that would do it. Make sure of the same thing in exports.

Neil

[BUS74]

Neil could you take a screenshot of the parameters you say to be turned on and mark them with an arrow?
So do I understand better?
Thank you

[chrisw44157881]

max bit depth and max render quality are at bottom of sequence settings.

https://blog.frame.io/2021/06/07/premiere-pro-max-render-quality-max-bit-depth/#Maximum_Bit_Depth_af...

edit: it looks like max bit depth helps. can you confirm?

[R Neil Haugen]

Yes, Chris ... this is a Premiere problem with ProRes encoding. And exactly as shown in that Frame.io article.

For ProRes 422, without the Max Depth both in sequence settings AND in the export dialog, you won't get a full 10-bit file. Jarle Leirpoll first completely demo'd this to my satisfaction (and many other of course) about a year ago. I keep forgetting about it though. My bad there!

Neil

[BUS74]

Neil and Chris I looked at the web link and I applied the parameters you recommended and I would say that we have solved and understood many things.

This is thanks to your willingness to spend your time!

You are number one.

Thank you for solving an insurmountable problem for me!

Have a nice weekend.

[BUS74]

Neil and Chris I am doing other tests according to the indications you have given me and now the "banding" does not manifest itself anymore.
I exported the clip always with the active flags that you indicated and even here the banding is no longer there.

In the screenshot that I am attaching you see the same frame both on the Premiere Pro monitor and the clip from Quicktime where I put it on the time line with the Ispector data.

As you can see the frame I work on is what I want to achieve but when I export it the clip is slightly less contrasted.

You notice it from the color of the whiskey, from the color of the pipe, from the reds, ...

Is it normal that you can't get what you see in Premiere PRO?

Thanks always for the valuable advice.

[R Neil Haugen]

QuickTime player is notoriously NOT a usable color-checking tool. VLC player is far more likely to be at least close.

And outside Pr on a Mac, their ColorSync utility color management control applet is built to ignore full Rec.709 specs, and instead displays a non-standard image of any Rec.709 media.

So ... what we're left with is that there is NO absolute 'perfect' color available to anyone, not even a full on pro colorists. Every screen out there is going to show that image differently that what you see anyway.

Joy, right?

So setup as close as possible to standards. Check your scopes, your eyes lie to you all the time. And let the stuff go after it leaves your rig.

Neil