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After noticing that my exports were coming out a tad too bright, I started exporting using the QT Gamma Compensation LUT again. I exported and entire feature length documentary recently, which a company is currently prepping for all major platforms. When I initially sent them the file, one of the producers checked it for me (I didn't have time), and said it looked great. However, I just discovered that much of the documentary, which was graded by a professional colorist, is noticeable dark now. I'm sooooo bummed... The results are identical on both the Prores 4444 and the H264 masters.
Can anyone help me understand when and when NOT to use the QT Gamma Compensation LUT? I could really use a solid (do it this way, don't do it that way) for future exports so I can avoid these issues?
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Hi @JesseSchluntz - You no longer need to use this workflow improved color management was introduced in Premiere Pro version 25.2.
Please see this HelpX article: Display Color Management
You may also find this article helpful regarding washed out colors on export: Why Do My Premiere Pro Exports Look Washed Out?
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Check your original file, and the file you're getting back now, on that computer, by playback with either VLC or Potplayer. Compare that view to playback in QuickTime player. Then read on.
Ok ...I hope you did, as that will make the following more ... sensible ... to understand.
For production work that may go broadcast, you should never use either the old gamma compensation LUT or the newer option to use a viewing gamma of 1.96 in Premiere. This creates a much "lighter" image data in the file.
Why?
Very simply put, the lighter view is needed only on some Macs ... those without Reference modes set to HDTV. Those systems will use a display transform essentially similar to gamma 1.96, rather than the correct to the standard display transform of essentially gamma 2.4.
On those systems, the actually correct file data will look too dark, even though the file data is actually correct. Unless of course, you view the file with VLC or Potplayer.
All other systems, including broadcast compliant ones, will not see the darker view shown on Macs without Reference modes set to HDTV, for properly encoded Rec.709 files.
This is why the colorist produced parts look too dark ... they are probably spot on, as far as to the Rec.709 specs. But you are viewing them with an incorrect display transform due to using QuickTime player on a Mac without Reference modes set to HDTV. Which is why they seem too dark to you.
The image on other, normal systems, will not be too dark.
So when you create the lighter view to look 'better' on Macs without Reference modes set to HDTV, you only get a "proper" viewing of the file on those particular Macs.
But only in QuickTime Player, and Chrome and Safari browsers. As shown, VLC and Potplayer will show the image more correctly.
The problem is an improper Rec.709 display transform used only on Macs without Reference mode set to HDTV. As the OS level color management utility, ColorSync, will use the incorrect display transform, essentially similar to gamma 1.96 ... and also does not apply a technically correct hue transform from the file's sRGB to the native P3 color space of the monitor.
For any broadcast or streaming exports, if you view the file outside of Premiere on Macs without Reference modes set to HDTV, you should view it in VLC or Potplayer. Do not use QuickTime Player as you will see an incorrect representation of that video file data.
In your case, I suspect the colorist graded parts will look pretty good if using VLC or Potplayer ... and especially if viewed on a fully broadcast compliant system ... which no standard Mac nor most PCs actually provide without careful, intentional work in using proper calibration and such to the monitor. Or perhaps also a BlackMagic Decklink card out of the computer, rather than using the GPU to send a signal to the monitor.
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thanks for all this!
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I'd love to hear how this looks in VLC or Potplayer on your system ... the 'good' and 'bad' parts might be reversed, maybe muddled ... it would be nice to hear.
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I finally had the time to compare Neil. And yes, VLC looks fine, while quicktime sucks. Comparissons attached. Some questions to help me understand more...
This documentary recently screened at a venue near me. I had exported a prores4444 with the QT compensation LUT applied on export. The venue played the video file off of a mac through a laser projector that is new and has a wonderful image (I've seen it in use before). But I did notice how dark some scenes looked. Would you agree that it looked dark because it was playing off their in house iMac?
I've supplied the distributor with a file exported the same way (QT gamma comp LUT applied). Does this mean that it should look right on platforms like Amazon, Vudu, Google Play, etc? Or does this mean it will appear a bit too dark on those systems as well?
My ultimate concern is how I can reliably export my work at this point for the following purposes:
Vimeo
youtube
theatrical (played off computers)
Thanks man.
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And just to clarify... the images you see above are from a new export of the documentary with NO GAMMA LUT applied. These are from today, and you can see how they appear in each environment.
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One last screenshot from today's export with NO GAMMA LUT, uploaded to Vimeo. Feels a bit washed out as well compared to the proper grade.
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Really last message to add to this... I do have display color management checked in my preferences.
Again, as much as I appreciate the color science, and need to learn it better, for now I'm just tyring to figure out how to export my work without breaking it!
thanks
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Ok, I work for/with/teach pro colorists ... got sucked into a good group of colorists that do major teaching and such over a decade back. So I know what a pro colorist would say ... my comments on this below.
One thing that kinda makes your situation tough is releasing for theatrical use ... which is a very different set of standards for the media than the Rec.709 for broadcast SDR. And I'll touch on that below also.
=========
Requirements for pro colorists working monitors:
1) Never EVER trust a computer monitor fed from a GPU. Just NO.
2) get a Decklink card from BlackMagic or external box from AJA, and connect the monitor via the external device to get a "clean" signal neither the OS nor the GPU have messed with.
3) Use only a full-on Grade 1 Reference monitor from Flanders, Eizo, or Sony ... not a regular computer monitor.
4) Have it calibrated professionally (or do it yourself) and include a profile pass ... when the profile charts show acceptable results, create a LUT to store in your card or the monitor (if it has storable LUT capabilities) so that the monitor is known to be dang near dead-on.
5) The room should be not quite dark but pretty close, and the viewing area in front of the colorists and around/behind the monitor should be a totally neutral gray, and there should be a bias light (D65) behind the monitor providing a slighly lighter area just around the edge of the monitor visually from the colorist's seat.
(There are precise specs for all of these, by the way. Which must be met for typical broadcast show preparations.)
=========
Ok, educational moment aside. Let's get real.
- The Decklink card can be from about $125 and up, and is a very good idea for a 'clean feed' monitor from Resolve or "Transmit Out" from Premiere. You can get by mostly sort of without, running from the GPU, but ... you gotta be careful.
- A full-on Grade 1 Reference monitor, like a Flanders Flanders DM 250 will be at least $4,000 dollars ... now, those rigs are awesome and come actually dead-on from Flanders ... but kinda spendy. My CFO ... the Missus ... will simply not allow me to blow the 7-10 grand for the Flanders monitor I'd really love to have, as I don't do any full-on broadcast TV or theatrical release work. Sigh.
So I do have to do as listed below, in order to adhere closely enough to the standards for what I do put out. But ... IF ... I had a good paid job coming in, that was going to be used for broadcast TV, needing to pass that QC machine, I'd have a Flanders in the room toot sweet.
- IF you do not have to pass the dreaded QC machines at a broadcast studio, you can get pretty close with righteous care: use an external puck/software to calibrate the monitor for Rec.709, and run a Profile pass on the monitor using either Colourspace or Calman.
Why the profile pass? It is rather doubtful that using a consumer puck/software calibration on a computer monitor, that the initial 'pass' will actually get you totally tight to the standards all the way from black to white. The Profile runs a series of on-screen patches, probably using Resolve as the patch generator, and measures the results of the calibration.
You quite likely will need to then make some adjustments to the monitor base settings, and do another calibration and profile pair of runs. Doing this righteously, I've been able to get my "clean feed" monitor well under the deltaE 2 minimum.
Ok, that gets your image 'clean' for Rec.709. Your working environment with a righteously set Rec.709 monitor, maxing at 100 nits, must be that pretty dark (not quite blackened) room I mentioned above. As this helps both get your eyes working best for contrast both ways ... tonal contrast (luminance) and color contrast (chrominance).
But you are doing theatrical releases, and those projectors do not work well with Rec.709/SDR media. They tend to need the P3/Theatrical setup, which uses a different color space/volume than Rec.709, and actually they max out at 48 nits for white point! Because of being used in a totally blackened room.
Getting a theatrical release out of Premiere is probably possible ... but ... not easy to be sure of. So you need to have access to such a facility to take trial runs over to, and see what you are getting.
Test and test again ... it's the best you can do.
In Resolve, you can often grade in Rec.709, then set the export to P3/theatrical 'space' ... and it does a pretty good job of the transform. Even Walter Volpatto does that for smaller projects. Though of course all his 'big-tent' jobs are graded in a theater-projector setup.
You might try grading in Premiere, as you know that better, exporting a full file out of Premiere in Rec.709, then import that into Resolve, and simply export for theatrical settings.
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I appreciate all this deep dive, but maybe I should have been more clear in my description. I am not a colorist. This documentary was graded by a professional in resolve. I export my work as ProRes 4444, he grades it and exports it out of resolve in the same format. My colorist hands the finished product back to me, which I then export out of premiere along with the final audio, graphics etc.
All I want to know is how to export what I am handed without it getting screwed up. There can't possibly be this much rocket science involved when all I am trying to do is export what I have already fed into the system with no added grading.
what I'm dying for is for someone to just tell me "use these settings and it will not get screwy in the export process when you are exporting for YouTube, Vimeo, or a theatrical setting where they are simply playing off of a computer."
Is that sort of advice just not possible? I know tons of filmmakers who do beautiful work and never seem to run into issues like this.
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HI @JesseSchluntz - please see page 120 of our workflow guide for details on color turnovers: Best Practices and Workflow Guide for Long Form and Episodic Post Production
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Thanks @jamieclarke , I read page 120-121 and it did not give me any answsers.
My workflow is to export the timeline as Prores 4444 for my colorist (no color effects enabled). He then colors in resolve, exports it back at the same format, I bring it into premiere, and it looks perfect. It's when I EXPORT the file from premeire that I have color issues.
I need the video file Premiere exports to not be altered, as in washed out etc.
When I use the gamma compensation LUT Adobe created on exports, it is making the overall color darker, helps some shots and wrecks others.
Is there seriously no simple way in 2025 to export a project out of premiere "pro" without destructive color results?
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Again, the issue is actually your system ... that Mac OS utility ColorSync. It uses a non-standard display transform of (essentially) gamma 1.96, rather than the specified gamma 2.4.
So if the file is viewed on a system and app with ColorSync involved, it appears lighter. If without it, it appears darker.
It would be useful for me to know what exactly your colorist is exporting to when they output the file. As there is a "Rec.709-A" option in Resolve, and if that is used, the file will be rendered for export with the brighter file data.
Also, just to make sure, you haven't set your monitor to "full" levels I hope ... they should be left either auto or legal for Rec.709 use.
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Forgive me... I don't mean for us to talk past each other. And I really appreciate your help... I'm just very overloaded with work and life right now, and I’m buried with other projects, so this is very hard for me to wrap my head around (Thanks for the grace)...
Monitor settings aside, I can clearly see differences in the film. Incidentally, I run a BenQ that was calibrated (I need to update it), and another monitor that is more of an oldie for timeline work (an old Dell, I don’t examine color with it).
Attached are four side by side moments from the documentary.
- The top left ("No Lut") is the film exported WITHOUT THE LUT and posted on vimeo.
- The top right is the same moment exported WITH the LUT on vimeo.
- The bottom is what the grade should look like.
(I will check on my AppleTv's vimeo app when I get home as well)
Furthermore, when I open up the RAW COLOR my colorist gave me in QuickTime, and compare it to an export from premiere pro WITHOUT the LUT, the export from premiere is clearly washed out a bit. But when I compare it to an export from premiere WITH the LUT, the color appears consistent.
Bearing all this evidence in mind, please tell me if what I write below makes sense:
CONCLUSION
I need to be exporting the film WITH the LUT for Vimeo because it matches the grade best.
QUESTIONS
Should I also use the same version (exported WITH the LUT) for YouTube exports?
In the future when the film is destined for online platforms like Amazon, iTunes, Google play, etc, which I cannot test because it’s a handoff to a deliverables company, do I export my film with the LUT, or without it?
Thanks
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You're worried about accurate "out there", and not on your Mac, right?
Then do not use QuickTime Player to check your work! Not on a Mac without Reference modes. Period.
Note that QuickTime player, on your Mac, uses the wrong display transform.
Stick with VLC or Potplayer, although ... Premiere will be more 'accurate' than most prosumer apps if your setup is correct.
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The references I sent you were two shots taken directly from Vimeo, and the lowest shot is taken directly from Premier pro with the proper color grade. No QuickTime player in the mix.
I just looked at the documentary on my TV at home (coming from an Apple TV box through a Hisense Android TV), and the version exported with the LUT was clearly more in line with the color grade, as opposed to the version exported without the LUT, which was washed out.
so I have confirmed that using the Adobe Gamma compensation LUT when exporting from Premier Pro gets me an accurate picture on Vimeo. so that is one problem solved.
the big question marks remaining are:
will the same thing happen with exports I upload to YouTube?
How do I know whether or not to apply the LUT when exporting for a deliverables company that preps the film for common platforms?
if you have any answers to those questions, please let me know.
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Your results are somewhat of a puzzlement ... which leads me to wondering if the colorist used the Rec.709-A out of Resolve ... that might explain things.
What is your viewer gamma in Premiere set to? And on a Mac monitor, or other?
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I just realized I reallly need to correct one major assumption you seem to have ... that is, that if you make it look like a certain way in Vimeo on your screen, it will look the same in Vimeo on other screens.
Lose that assumption, as it is physicially impossible for that to happen.
Colorists are taught that no one, ever, by any possible deliverable method, will ever see what you saw on your screen.
There isn't any such thing as a common color schema ... in fact, as has been demonstrated numerous times, the top color science & calibration people in the world cannot make two "identical" screens, sitting side by side, fed the same signal, show identical images.
Then throw in all the vagaries of differences in the electronics and firmware and OS and user settings and app settings that are designed to "enhance the viewing experience" ... and every screen will be different from any other.
It drives colorists about around the bend when starting out.
So what does a colorist do? They set up a system that is as tight to the standards, the specs, as possible to do their grade. Not because anyone will ever see the same image, but only because ...
when you do that righteously, your media, seen on all other screens, will look in relative terms like other professional media does on that screen.
What that program looks like in Vimeo on your system is totally irrelevant ... unless! ... your system is pretty close to the standards.
And "by any deliverable" above, that includes theatrical release, broadcast TV, streaming, and DVD/BluRay, as well as web release.
You are trying to outguess the viewing situation, which is a total impossibility.
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Premiere pro and Lumetri settings attached. I never change them, this is just what they are set to.
Monitor is a BenQ SW270C. I just spent some time relinking and updating my calibration software, but there is no saved metadata from my previous calibration.
Last night I double checked the private vimeo version of the film (Both the version exported with the LUT and the version exported without the LUT) The one with the LUT looked great. The one without the LUT had washed out color.
The screenshot comparissons I sent are all on the same monitor, and clearly different.
I appreciate all the input Neil, but I'm unable to track with the multitude of info in your answers. I just don't have the bandwidth to decipher and configure everything like a pro colorist. Can you please try to dumb things down a little and just answer my questions from my previous reply? I'd really appreciate it.
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Fair enough, as color management is a massive black hole of rabbit holes. But what I'm trying to do here is show you how to actually evaluate in a potentially successful, usable manner. And down below, I'll talk about the probable difference between Resolve and Premiere exports.
First, as noted above, there isn't any such thing as a consistent color view across devices. Period. Isn't even physically possible. So trying to see what Vimeo shows on one computer only shows you what Vimeo shows on that computer, and has no bearing nor relevancy to Vimeo, or any other playback app, on any other screen in existence.
Frustrating? Of course. But sady, true.
You do realize that no device actually sees or records color, right? All that sensors can record is brightness ... and by the use of filters over the sensing elements and a ton of math processing, the engineers totally manufacture what appears to be color to our eyes. Karl Soule has even frequently quoted me on that to get his audiences to begin to understand the journey of light to color.
And all manufacturing lines have tolerances ... we simply cannot make any two sensor elements identical in response, let alone, a whole panel of them. Which is why all sensors and LED panels are graded after assembly. The more even/accurate panels are sold at much higher prices for special uses, the less accurate ones for general prosumer gear.
And yes, that is a large part of why a Grade 1 Reference monitor costs a lot more than a normal monitor. And why "but that Reference monitor and this computer monitor for a quarter the price use the same panel" is also an irrelevant statement. That basic monitor starts with (comparatively) a lesser quality panel.
And all camera makers ... for each camera ... assemble a series of parts, come up with a 'firmware' to drive them someplace together, and sell that to us to use. So they combine parts from all over, that are only used in that one camera model as an assembly. Hence each camera is a bit to a lot different in response to other camera models.
But even with identical cameras, the responses will be somewhat to notably different depending up lenses settings and all.
The same is true of screens. Which is why any assumption that all those seeing your production on Vimeo will ever see what you saw on your machine is simply a fallacy of understanding. They simply can't.
But even on the same screen, take an iPad ... watch a dark scene in a show on a park bench at noon, and in a dark bedroom at night. It will look quite different due to simply the changes in the surrounding ambient light and reflections.
So chasing "accuracy" by looking at the image on a monitor or TV is simply a fruitless endeavor.
The only way to ensure that your media is given the best shot to be seen across devices ... is have it done on a properly calibrated tested system, and then ... let it go as is.
Because then, as I commented before, you kow that your program will look, in relative terms! ... in similar fashion to other professionally produced media on that screen.
That's all a pro colorist can do, and essentially, you are trying to outsmart the professionals at this. I know it seems sensible to try doing this, but ... it isn't.
Differences between Colorist media and Premiere media
I'm wondering if the colorist used the Rec.709-A export option from Premiere. That doesn't change the media, but it does put a different number in the file header's NCLC tagging. Which is a non-standard use of a number that has no setting by any standard. But the BlackMagic devs realized that the use of that number somehow makes the Mac ColorSync utility use gamma 2.4 for the display transform.
But as that is not a set standard use of that number, the Adobe devs do not use it. In testing that I've seen colorists do, on other non-Mac systems that 'extra' NCLC tag can cause other issues, so while it's sort of a cadged fix, it's a bit dodgy at best. I think that might be another bit of why Adobe doesn't use it, but they won't say of course.
So Premiere will not export with that number.
If you have part of the bit directly from Resolve, and part directly from Premiere, you would have two different views on a Mac without Reference modes!!!! ... if the colorist used the Rec.709-A setting at export from Resolve.
Final comments:
1) You can't match across screens let alone OS/Programs/devices.
2) Macs without Reference modes (set to HDTV) will display using a transform different from all other devices, including Macs with Reference modes set to HDTV. This is not "fixable".
3) Premiere's gamma compensation LUT changes the program file image data at export.
4) Resolve's Rec.709-A export option does not change the file image data, but it does change the file header NCLC tag.
5) So the two workarounds to the "gamma issue" on Macs without Reference modes set to HDTV are both ... partial ... and potentially problematic.
6) The majority of colorists simply grade to the standard and export stock Rec.709 as that is the safest way to get a view "similar to other pro produced media" on any screen out there. And is required for broadcast/streaming deliverables.
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Hello, thank you for all your comments. I used to download the QT gamma conversion table on Premiere Pro, but for some reason, I now get an error message saying “The file cannot be downloaded.” At some point, it won't be surprising if everyone abandons ship in favor of DVR. Until then, someone has the answer ? Thanks a lot.
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Gamma compensation for those Macs that need it ... simply shifts who gets the "wrong" or "right" image.
There is no fix, either in Premiere or Resolve, really.
Not until Apple changes their color management options or we all leave SDR work behind.
You can kinda sorta maybe fix for some screens in the Rec.709-A export option in Resolve ... but as that uses an un-specified number in the NCLC tags ...
1) that option works on many (but not all) Macs to get a correct Rec.709 display transform, and doesn't work on some Macs;
2) it doesn't affect many non-Mac systems and devices, but on some, makes the image a lot darker.
And I'm as frustrated with this as anyone. Including my many colorist friends, who all struggle with this.
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Subject: Urgent: Export Error Issue – Requesting Immediate Assistance
Dear Sir/Madam,
I hope this message finds you well. I am reaching out to inform you that I am currently experiencing an issue with exporting a video. Despite several attempts, the export is not completing and an export error continues to appear.
As per your previous guidance, I tried to download and apply the QT Gamma Compensation LUT, but I am unable to do so because it is not available in your provided settings or download options.
This is an urgent matter as I need to deliver the final video to my client by tomorrow. I kindly request you to provide a solution at the earliest.
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For that dialog, you should go to the specific timecode set, and rebuild those few seconds. Which will probably fix your issue.
As a person heavily into the colorist side of things (I work for/with/teach pro colorists) ... I don't recommend that export LUT at all.
In "modern" Premiere it is neither needed nor useful, which is why it's not there.
If you want to set your image to Apple's brighter gamma display transform .... simply set the display color management and extended dynamic range on, set viewer gamma to 1.96, and correct your image.
It will then look the same in QuickTime Player, Chrome, and Safari on Macs ... but only those without Reference modes set to HDTV.
On all other systems ... Macs with Reference modes set to HDTV, most TVs, most Android ... all broadcast compliant displays too ... the image will be too dark and oversaturated.
Oh ... even on Macs without the Reference modes set to HDTV .... if viewed in VLC or Potplayer, the image will be the dark one that others will see.
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