Timecode Display Options For Audio

[Path 88 Productions]

tl/dr:  Need an easy way to add timecode burn to audio files, not video files, when making an extensive "daily" preview clip.  Am I SOL?  I think I'm SOL.  I'm probably SOL.

Here's my dilemma:   

A day's shoot on our documentary typically lasts from 7am 'til 9pm.  And the way we used to make the dailies is just lay out all the video/audio files and sync them to our jammed time-of-day TC.  This would make a timeline 14 hours long, but there it was.  You could see all your audio and video clips and when they were made.  Lots of blank spots, but it was all easy to see, easy to understand, and easy to apply a macro timecode burn to the entire day since I'd just pull it from the sequence/timeline.  Start sequence's numbers around 07:00:00 and off they go until 21:00:00.

Nevertheless, job is now to make all the blank spots in the daily gone.  Basically all clips need to butt each other, no gaps.  Alright, my uderstanding is that means that now any timecode burn has to be generated by the clips themselves --as using sequence numbers isn't an option anymore.

Adding that timecode effect in Premiere is easy-peasy for a video clip, but for audio that doesn't work.  

Seems like my only option is to make a slate for each and every audio clips, applying the timecode effect to the slate, select "generate time-code" as an option, and then MANUALLY entering the timecode numbers as needed.  

Which therefore means I pretty much have to slate and timecode every single instance the audio guy starts and stops his recording.  Also have to put in slates where video starts and stops over a long running audio clip.  All in all that = hundreds a times a day.

I've been tasked with doing this for over 40 days of footage.  Looking at manually making time code slates for audio around 5,000 total times here.  

Any help?  A quicker way to do what I wanna do?

Even if I'm out of luck and nobody knows of a way to accomplish my ask, it would be great if folks would chime in and say, "Sorry, can't be done."  Hopefully an answer might be, "Well, you might wanna try this..." 

[Richard van den Boogaard]

My main question to you is: why do you need timecode inside the audio?

I typically use the sychronize option to sync multiple camera angles based on the available audio channels. This process ensures that all cameras that have scratch-audio will sync neatly to the audio file that holds the properly recorded version. But I'm not a timecode guy, when it comes to acquisition.

I would advise you to use a structure of multiple sequences, so you can always refer back to the source if an edit has happened that requires you to do so further down the workflow. I typically have RAW sequences that contain the originals (with time gaps), then a rough cut in which all the cameras are synced and gaps are removed. I then render out the rough cuts with a visual timecode (at 360p) and let my clients decide which quotes they want for their final edit by letting them fill out an excel which acts as an Edit Decision List (EDL), as attached.

Hope this process helps you as well.

[Path 88 Productions]

Short answer: because the audio is super important.  The jammed time-of-day time code for audio and video is the workflow being used on this documentary film.  

There's numerous instances of off-camera audio and random MOS stuff, so that's the gig.  Much of the content that'll be in the edit is audio only.  There are hours upon of only talking (no video) happening, and all that needs to be sorted.

I really don't think there's a quick way to grab and display audio time code, but certainly wanted to ask in case someone figured out a work-around or knew something I don't.

[Richard van den Boogaard]

Using timecode is not my way of working. But I typically work in small crews and syncing by audio works for me.

Nevertheless, does this tutorial help you out? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lvqWS_lE7ac

[Path 88 Productions]

Thnaks for the sugggestion.  Not really what I'm aiming for. 

Sync'ing TC and getting footage to align nicely is actually easy enough in Premiere, but getting a time-code burn in to display the way the filmmakers of this particular production want to view it... well, that is the hiccup. 

Again, getting an audio clip to display timecode easily.  Can't figure out an elegant quick solution, assuming it's not doable.

As a side note, syncing footage and using "Camera Label" meta data to keep multiple shots on a single video track is a brilliant feature when syncing w/timecode, I've come to rely on this function. 

Adobe needs to make that feature available when syncing with audio!  You ever audio sync 25 shots and end up with that annoying track "staircase"? 

[Path 88 Productions]

I just found out about this week's (06/23) Premiere update which might offer a solution with the new timecode labeling feature.  

If anyone is stumbling upon this thread from the future and is looking for a similar solution I'll give it a go and report back.

[Warren Heaton]

Monitor overlays allow us to view informatin like source timecode and sound timecode in the Source Panel and Program Panel.

Monitor overlays

https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/monitor-overlays.html#:~:text=You%20can%20turn%20overlays...

As far as burning timecode into audio goes, that's not possible as there is no picture to burn the timecode into.

[Path 88 Productions]

burning timecode into audio goes, that's not possible as there is no picture

Interestingly, it looks like the new metadata overlay does allow this to happen!  Yea!  Something that solved the problem...

or so I thought.  

For some reason my .wav files are displaying time code numbers, just not the actual time code numbers.  The count is offset for some reason.  Why the source monitor of my audio clip would display the correct TC of the .wav, but the metadata overlay does not is beyond me.

Fixed one problem, created another one.  It's never easy, you know?

[Remote Index]

Warren Heaton,

"As far as burning timecode into audio goes"

They are not talking about exporting audio only files - they are talking about exporting video & audio files which sometimes may be all black picture (where there is no camera footage to sync with audio).

R.

[Remote Index · Accepted solution]

Hello Pathh88 Productions,

I think I understand what you are looking for and I understand the reasons behind it.

If I understand you fully, you have or will have "full" timelines for all the footage (likely day by day) which functon as you wish ("a macro timecode burn to the entire day since I'd just pull it from the sequence/timeline"). The issue is just the form of the output ("all clips need to butt each other, no gaps" - by which you mean (I think) all video clips, ignoring audio clip begins and ends).

My first thought is nested sequences - take a "full sequence" with burn-in sequence code and nest it in an output sequence. Then you can execute edits on this output sequence. To speed the editing process you can copy video (only) clips from the original "full sequence", paste them onto another video track and use them as guide to delete null video spaces. Then you delete these guide video clips (or make the track invisible) and export the sequence.

Have I understood you correctly? Does this acheive what you desire?

R.

[Path 88 Productions]

"all clips need to butt each other, no gaps" - by which you mean (I think) all video clips, ignoring audio clip begins and ends.

No.  I need all the audio too.  This is a documentary and the director is rolling audio ALL day, even when the video is not happening.  The intent is to try and capture little bits of interesting dialog here and there.

Both the video and the audio have sync'ed time-of-day time code. 

So, how to make a daily with time code of the video is easy...how to do it with an audio clip?  Not so easy.

[Remote Index]

Pathh 88 Productions,

"I need all the audio too."

Got it.

So the first question is - do you have "full sequences" functioning for each day as you desire? (displaying timecode regardless if there is visual clip)

If so then my suggestion stands - but use both video and audio clips as guide to cut the nested sequence.

R.

[Path 88 Productions]

do you have "full sequences" functioning for each day as you desire?...use both video and audio clips as guide to cut the nested sequence.

Yeah, might be a little tedious, but at least doable.  Not a fan of nesting, but I'm also not a fan of having to make these dailies, so anything to speed it up.

[Warren Heaton]

Rather than try to rely on time of day recorded by different devices, you want something generating free run timecode that can be fed to all the recording devices.

Tentacle Sync is an option for this.. With all of the devices having timecode from Tentacle Sync, you would select the video and audio only recorded on the same say, create a Multicam Source Sequence, and everything instantly syncs up.

[Path 88 Productions]

Rather than try to rely on time of day recorded by different devices, you want something generating free run timecode that can be fed to all the recording devices.

Yup. that's what we have.  It's sync'ed to TOD.

[Warren Heaton]

While time of day is similar, it is not the same thing as free run timecode recorded from a timecode generator.

[Remote Index]

Warren Heaton,

"Rather than try to rely on time of day recorded by different devices, you want something generating free run timecode"

It's important to make a distinction (perhaps unclear in the original post) between the method of generating and/or distributing the timecode (Tentacle Sync which they are using and which you suggested) and the setting of that timecode (time of day, arbitrary, other).

Time of Day code is "free run" (or analogous to it, depending on the system used) as opposed to "record run" (which only incriments timecode values while the device is recording).

Time of day (usually, as far as I know, an approximation) is a common chosen reference and can be particularly useful in documentary workflow.

R.

[Warren Heaton]

Time of day can of course be useful, but unreliable - even if the recording devices are from the same manufacturer, the same product family, or are like devices set to the same record settings - and even if someone is constantly checking the devices proir to an interview or shooting b-roll.  Of cource, equipment that supports timecode output and input can easily be beyond the budget of many documentaries.  Good slate habits during production can make up for a lot in post. 

Are you in Florida by any chance?  I don't work in docmentary post production as much as I used to, but Holly du Rivage's "Perfect House, Magic City" (a doc I'm very proud to have been a part of), premiered this May on PBS (WPBT and WXEL).

[Remote Index]

Warren Heaton,

I think we are of the same understanding, but you are not quite getting what I am saying. From the Tentacle manual:
"Switch on with long hold (3 seconds): Tentacle will start in Green Mode. It generates and outputs timecode. The time will be the "time of day" fetched from the internal clock (RTC)."

... thus combining the two distinct concepts of type of timecode (free run "time of day" in this case) and the distribution method (synced Tentacle, as opposed to every device on its own). While the "time of day" can be unreliable (in terms of actual time of day), if the same TC is synced to all devices, then it's reliable (in terms of sync), and still acheives the effect of understanding the chronology and time relationships of material.

Don't know if you were addressing me, but I'm not in Florida (sort of mid-atlantic). But congratulations on any doc work you manage to do! "Perfect House, Magic City" subject looks interesting.

R.

[Path 88 Productions]

FWIW, on this shoot: Arri Alexa, a F8n, and AJA FS-Mini Frame Synchronizer.

They deliver jammed timecode that is set to time-of-day and is in sync between the cam and audio recorder.  It's frame-accurate.

[Path 88 Productions]

You do suggest an intriuiging work-around though.  Might give it a try!

[Path 88 Productions]

I'm listing your response as the correct answer.  The reason why is that I've been going back and forth with Adobe for a month and we were unable to solve the audio asyncronous time code when using their new MetaDataTimecode effect with Broadcast Wave Files.

Your work around is the easiest solution to creating dailies that display accurate TOD timecode, which is what I needed.

In case someone else needs this solution in the future, give this a go!

Thanks!