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Transform effect + shutter angle is messing up clip position

Explorer ,
Aug 16, 2021 Aug 16, 2021

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Hello!

 

I am using the transform effect for minor animations because of its motion blur abilities when using shutter angle. Lately however it seems like the shutter angle is messing with the positioning of the anchor point or something like that.

 

For example I wanted an image to rotate a couple times around its own midpoint like a wheel, this worked perfectly fine, then I adjusted the shutter angle to simulate motion blur and all of a sudden the image is rotating around a point somewhere just offscreen. 

 

The same thing happened when I did only a small scale animation, I made an image pop out a bit by having the scale increase in a short amount of time, then I adjust the shutter angle and now it doesn't pop out of its own middle but from some angle in the screen. 

 

The amount of shutter angle does not matter, it either does not happen when it's off or happens all the way when either barely or fully adjusted.

 

Am I goofing? or is this not supposed to happen? Any advice is appreciated!!

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Community Beginner , Nov 29, 2023 Nov 29, 2023

Its incredible - this issue hasnt been fixed for 4 years. Nesting is a disturbing work around that harms the workflow. Adobe please fix a basic effect that hasnt been working for 4 years...

 

Picture 1 and two demomstrates the position of the emoji where the only difference is a shutter angle on 50 on picture 2, which for some annoying reason completely misplaces the emoji to some random place instead of the center

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Explorer ,
Mar 14, 2023 Mar 14, 2023

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I was also experiencing this issue. Read thru the thread and didn't see much help. I went back to work and may have just found a fix for this.

I have a 4k clip in a 1080 sequence at 100%. I dropped the transform effect and set the shutter angle first. Then set my scale + position keyframes. This just worked for me. No weird offset, no nesting, and motion blur is great.

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Explorer ,
Apr 19, 2023 Apr 19, 2023

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Thanks for the update. Does your clip position in the exported video match up with your timeline?

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Explorer ,
Apr 19, 2023 Apr 19, 2023

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Yes. Is that not the case for you?

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New Here ,
Jun 08, 2023 Jun 08, 2023

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I had that same problem. What you can do is to nest that particular layer and then apply transform effect on that nested sequence. don't open the nested sequence and apply transform effect op the layer or it will repeat the same problem.

Somehow premiere pro gives more priority to nested sequences, that's why when there is a rendering problem due to a lot effects over there, i just nest those layers and then render it.

In this case, you just have to nest that one layer and then apply transform effect upon that nested sequence. I hope it helps.

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Community Expert ,
Jun 08, 2023 Jun 08, 2023

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Indeed. Nesting will solve a lot of issues in PPro, much like pre-comping does in Ae.

 

For example, you can't do a warp stabilizer and a speed change without nesting.

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New Here ,
Oct 24, 2023 Oct 24, 2023

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Greetings! I'm having the same issue now (position changes if I apply a simple -100 width transform effect to invert the direction of a clip). It started about a month ago, updated to Premiere Pro 2024 and it's still happening with video clips and if I try this transform effect on any Character Animator layer, it disappears completely (but appears on a still frame). The nesting solution is a good work-around and fixes the issue with video clips (thank you so much SK Mobariz30379441ymqj!), and for Character Animator layers the solution seems to be to transform within CA (which can be a pain because this needs to be factored in for eye movements and draggers) and then export it as a media file, then import. But these kinds of work-arounds add up and end up taking a lot of time and it's quite unacceptable given how much the monthly subscription fee costs. Adobe--please fix this soon! Thank you!

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Community Beginner ,
Nov 29, 2023 Nov 29, 2023

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Its incredible - this issue hasnt been fixed for 4 years. Nesting is a disturbing work around that harms the workflow. Adobe please fix a basic effect that hasnt been working for 4 years...

 

Picture 1 and two demomstrates the position of the emoji where the only difference is a shutter angle on 50 on picture 2, which for some annoying reason completely misplaces the emoji to some random place instead of the center

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Explorer ,
Nov 30, 2023 Nov 30, 2023

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Unfortunately this is the correct answer, adobe has done nothing except having employees on the forum asking questions and never following up. Apparently workaround = proper solution.

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LEGEND ,
Nov 30, 2023 Nov 30, 2023

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I understand frustrations with an app like this. And especially as to us users, it seems like this should be an easy thing to 'fix'. Why does shutter angle change ... apply a new anchor point? Dunno.

 

@mattchristensen  ... you're normally pretty informative with explanations ... ?

 

But I don't know why some detest nesting ... it's simply a means to control processing order. And is heavily used in one form or another across video post apps, and has been for years.

 

It has some limitations, but then ... actually, all processing steps and effects have built-in limitations. 

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Community Beginner ,
Dec 11, 2023 Dec 11, 2023

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Im not against nesting for other purposes but in this situation it only harms the workflow nothing else, you lose the ability to zoom in on high res images and alot of other things. In my head it dosent make sense that it works one way (correct way) on nested clip but another (incorrect way) on direct clip. To me that proves its a bug/mistake and not mathematically reasoned, since if it was mathematically reasoned it would act the same on nested and directly on clips. Please find a solution to this. all i want to is to apply transform with shutter angle without it messes up the compostition completely

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LEGEND ,
Dec 11, 2023 Dec 11, 2023

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I've had the reason why it has two different behaviors explained, but it was a few years ago. So it is like that for a reason, for some uses.

 

Therefore to the devs, it is both logical and useful both ways as it is. Though yes, it is confusing probably to most users.

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Community Beginner ,
Dec 11, 2023 Dec 11, 2023

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Okay lets say i accept that premis, what kind of billion dollar editing company makes a video editing software with a missing function to litterly just add normal motion blur to movement? without having to do a workaround. Even if its explained by logic then atleast give me some other way to just add motion blur with no issues..

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LEGEND ,
Dec 11, 2023 Dec 11, 2023

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Can't disagree with that ... was just offering the direct explanation, no support or criticism implied.

 

Which is why I pinged Matt a couple posts back. To get the full engineer's answer hopefully.

 

Note, a lot of things the devs find totally logical from an engineering perspective ... I don't. But that's been like that for every program I've used in our business for near 40 years now.

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Community Beginner ,
Dec 11, 2023 Dec 11, 2023

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Sorry, i just get frustrated. Hope somebody from adobe can explain, fix - og give/create another solution

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LEGEND ,
Dec 11, 2023 Dec 11, 2023

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Yup.

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Explorer ,
Dec 13, 2023 Dec 13, 2023

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I'm so relieved that I am not the only one experiencing this. I've thought for years that I'm doing something arbitrarily wrong. I understand that PP is an extremely dense application (I can't imagine how  many total lines of code it is) but my goodness. The shutter angle option in the Transform effect makes it extremely popular. Why have the engineers not fixed this?

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Community Beginner ,
Dec 13, 2023 Dec 13, 2023

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Its really crazy tbh. Im just wondering if half the people using premiere wordwide just live with the fact that they have to nest to get proper motion blur, thats... not good.

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LEGEND ,
Dec 14, 2023 Dec 14, 2023

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One big problem to get this changed ... in over a decade of using Premiere, I've needed that specific function maybe 5 times?

 

So nesting then changing wasn't a big deal.

 

I don't think most users do this several times a week, let alone a day. Ergo ... it's not that high on the general list of things to fix.

 

Like a lot of color things I do, which to me need attention, but I can guarantee very few others are complaining about. Sigh.

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Contributor ,
Mar 17, 2024 Mar 17, 2024

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Just to get this out of the way: You can also add the Transform effect to an adjustment layer in Pr or Ae, avoiding nesting/pre-comping if you want.

 

But I thought a summary of my meandering problem solving might help others avoid it. TL;DR: I did all my blurring in Ae with the effect CC Force Motion Blur added to an adjustment layer above every layer I wanted to blur. This way, I could keyframe the blur’s duration and strength in the effect controls. The effect Pixel Motion Blur was just as good but caused more lagging for me. In addition, using a camera tied to a null in Ae to do the scaling and position moves retained my resolution even at extreme scaling, something the Transform effect has an issue with in either app.

 

I'm doing 2D animation and, as in this case, want blur on some layers and not others, often in the same frame at the same time. From one large comp (roughly 5000 x 2500) constructed in Ae, I wanted a shot that starts extremely zoomed in to follow a vehicle driving through a valley with a pan across the comp, then does a swish pan to other vehicles on the other side of comp, and seconds later a quick zoom-out. The vehicles are PNG sequences with wheels animated frame-by-frame that I didn't want motion blur on, but their motion paths are also animated--via Ae. I wanted blur only on the camera moves, the pans and the zoom-out (scale and position). 

 

-- I first decided to render it out as a clip in its full size from Ae to Pr and try applying these camera moves with the Transform effect in Pr. This led to the issue of the randomly shifting frame position.

-- Still in Pr, applying the Transform effect after Nesting the clip or to an adjustment layer above the clip led to the issue of badly decreased resolution when scaling. Compensating for that issue by first scaling up the clip with its own Motion settings eliminated the ability to pan and zoom in the adjustment layer beyond the bounds of the adjustment layer’s frame.

 

-- Since this clip was constructed in Ae, I returned to that and first attempted Ae’s version of the Transform effect added to an adjustment layer. It did not throw my frame positioning off as in Pr but did lower the resolution, though not as badly as in Pr. [If you're not scaling as much as I am, this solution might work for you.]

 

-- I then created a camera and parented it to a null object that I used to set my zooms and pans--this retained my full resolution when I scaled. [I don’t know why; I'm not paid by Adobe to care about why.] Next, the blur; I could not simply turn motion blur on for all layers, because the resulting blur for to the vehicles’ motion path animations would smear out the clarity of their frame-by-frame animation for the entire duration. To be able to keyframe the blur’s duration and strength, I added Pixel Motion Blur to an adjustment layer above everything. I compared it with CC Force Motion Blur, which proved a little less laggy on my previews (both cause mega-slow rendering).

 

If you made it through all of that, I told you it was meandering. I was more intimidated learning Pr than Ae, so I’m sure you can learn at least the steps above in Ae to give you the best blur controls, even if it’s for a single layer. It’s also a very dramatic thing to see precise blur on one layer with no blur on the layer behind it in the same shot. I suggest the tutorial on CC Force Motion Blur by Jake In Motion on YT.

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Community Beginner ,
Mar 31, 2024 Mar 31, 2024

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It's year 2024, Adobe.

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New Here ,
Mar 31, 2024 Mar 31, 2024

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New Here ,
Apr 10, 2024 Apr 10, 2024

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And we're all forgetting that using the transform effect to acheive motion blur is a workaround in itself. Motion blur should be a native option in the "Motion" section like it was in Final Cut 7 15 years ago!

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Explorer ,
May 03, 2024 May 03, 2024

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@camerons17794153 You say it's a workaround. You say Motion Blur should be a native option under Motion properties but it isn't. How else can Motion Blur be applied to effects? Are you speaking of adding an adjustment layer and adding the Transform effect to the adjustment layer?

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Explorer ,
May 03, 2024 May 03, 2024

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I think he means just like after effects still has the option of just toggling the motion blur per layer. The animations I'm doing in premiere are just as easily done with just default motion so I never actually need the transform effect but transform is the only way to add motion blur, how is that not a workaround?

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Explorer ,
May 03, 2024 May 03, 2024

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No, I get it. It almost sounded like he was eluding to another way to do it.

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