Using Premiere Productions on multiple HDDs on a Feature Film

[denisad11432051]

Hello everyone, I am starting an edit on a feature documentary (about 2TB of footage, will probably get up to 3TB) - we have aleady done some work on it before (for a taster tape) and already have a project file with reels, some pulls etc. At this stage the project file is small, and everything is working fine, but I have been recommended by some members of the Adobe community to convert it into Productions, or maybe recreate it from scratch. I am excited about the possibility, but the problem is that so far there is very little info on that workflow and I have quite a specific question.

The way we are working is that we are two editors (working remotely) with two gdrives (my colleague doing the majority of work, and me just playing around with it every now and then) and while we were working with a single project file, we were able to just send each other those files and it would all relink perfectly and we could share changes that way - we never work on the project simultaneously. However, as far as I understand with productions this workflow might be impossible - you cannot change the location of the production file on the HDD for example. Also, we are editing across operating systems (she is on Windows and will probably be using an NTFS formatted drive, I am on Mac with HFS+) and I guess that might cause problems.

Essentially, I am trying to figure out whether it makes sense for us to stick to our previous workflow (with the risk of the project file bloating and taking a lot of time to load) or explore the Productions option, but essentially run into problems with the two editors/two HDDs/two operating systems. Are there possibilities of the projects being on the cloud somewhere? But again, that might not be ideal as we are using normal home DSL connections...

So don't know, just interested in input from the PP masters that I know frequent these forums!

[R Neil Haugen]

As you are working remotely, I would suggest you try the Team Projects mode. One of you creates the Team Project, invites the other ... you both need the files 'local' on your machine, but your project file then passes forth & back on the Adobe cloud. It's got versions, is very good at handling when you've both worked a sequence and such.

There is a Team Projects forum where you can ask things directly. And go to the Team Project "learning page" to get started. They do have a pdf reference which I don't have the link for here at home. And for until next spring at least, they've dropped the added license to use TP, so it's available for all users. It's a pretty solid remote system.

I've used TP and work in Productions even in my one-man shop. Both are good. But Productions is more assuming that everyone is on the same server. TP can work better with remote work.

Neil

Premiere Pro Productions Introduction

Using Productions in Premiere Pro

Productions Workflow for Long Form & Episodic PDF

[denisad11432051]

Thank you for your response Neil - very helpful as usually. So you've confirmed what I thought which is that Productions is meant for shared local storage - which isn't the case with us unfortunately.

I guess that using Team Projects will help us solve the project file issues - but somewhere down the line we will run into the problem of long loading times and projects file size bloating I presume... Which was why we wanted to try Productions. Oh well!

[R Neil Haugen]

TP doesn't seem to have quite as much bloating slow-downs as standalone projects, but yea, Productions is great for that.

The way you get around that with TP is to create linked TP projects. So you can split things into subsections.

Neil

[denisad11432051]

Hm, that looks like a very interesting option Neil! I am going to look into it - just out of interest, have you got personal experience with that workflow?

[R Neil Haugen]

I've not yet done linked TP projects, just "regular" ones. My collaborator is @Mo Moolla out of Cape Town.

Linking TP projects brings them into the options to select from within that team project. I've created a couple and jumped forth & back, but not really used them for anything. Easy to do. And it was created for major long-form work by the Hollywood section of the Premiere team, under Dave Helmly & Karl Soule, so it's been pretty ragged out in action.

The biggest thing to remember with TP is that media management it NOT THE SAME! I'm a contributing author on MixingLight which is a pro colorist's subscription website. My "beat" is Premiere, especially color of course, but as a colorist needing to work in Premiere needs to understand the program workflows, I also cover Productions and Team Projects. 

As I note in an article there, you really need to have an "owner" of the project who's sort of a "Dungeon Master" ... rather emphatic about keeping everyone using the proper media practices for Team Projects.

Essentially, the owner (creator, DM, whatever) lays out a solid organizational structure for the project's media on their computer. Then either the originals are copied or light-weight transcodes (a proxy type workflow) are created to exactly the same names as the originals ... and that media (either originals or named t-codes) are delivered somehow to all team members.

The Team Members download or copy the file structure to their computer system. Then they go to the Edit/Team Projects/Team Projects/Media Management file menu item to link the media on their drive/s to the project.

NO ONE OTHER THAN OWNER uses the standard Media Browser or Project panel to import/ingest media. Nor does anyone use drag/drop from Finder/Explore to add the media of the project to their TP project panel. Because if they do, then Share Changes ... they will now screw up everyone else's media management.

I've been the dupe that done in a project for a day or two while we figured out first 1) what the freak happened and 2) how to fix it and get us working again..

I do not recommend imitating my feat.

That said, as long as everyone follows proper media management practices, it's an incredibly solid process. We got on a WhatsUp phone call while working, both of us making quick changes and immediately Sharing Changes ... change after change in rapid order. We couldn't bollix it up at all, it was rock solid stable through all of it.

It's a great way to work with others.

Neil

[Mo Moolla]

@R Neil Haugen we should look into doing a little more testing on linked TP's amd how/if Productions can be integrated into the TP workflow. 

Would be interesting to chat about doing what we did before but this time er just publish results and benchmarks directly here to the ACP channel?

Will get you on a call soon to discuss steps 

Mo

[R Neil Haugen]

Yup. We need to work out the linked projects stuff. After MAX I think.

Neil

[Mo Moolla]

Absolutely Neil

Will do

Mo

[Kevin-Monahan]

dd. 

Good luck with the film. I would stay with a Productions workflow for a large project such as this. Team Projects is more ideal for many small projects rather than one large one. So, I think your instincts are correct. I use Productions to manage a large project of my own which involves photos and videos. It was formerly a bloated mess, now it's very streamlined. I like it a lot. 

I have a side business where I generate a ton of quick social media edits. The idea is my girlfriend collabs on the project from her house. This would be a great candidate for a Team Projects scenario. I also collab with myself over multiple machines, so that is a cool side benefit.

Let me know if you have any questions. 

Thanks,
Kevin

[R Neil Haugen]

The issue with Productions here is the OP is talking about two people working remotely to edit the same project.

Productions isn't really designed for that.

Neil

[Michael Grenadier]

fwiw, I'm working on a fairly complicated project with my client working on a mac on premiere pro 2019 and I'm working on a windows machine also on 2019.  I've got a utility loaded on the windows machine to read mac drives without issue.  I've got a cloned drive of the media that she's working with.  It's not a feature film, but it's got a whole s-load of material shot over the last 4 years in a variety of formats.  When I open her project on my windows machine, it takes maybe 5 minutes to relink everything (if that).  I always save the project and open it on my macbookpro to do the relinking before I send it back to her.   So it's not too big a deal working this way in just a normal premiere project.  

[R Neil Haugen]

The handy part about Team Projects when remote working if both/all parties have the media locally: there's no down time schlepping the disc with project file computer to computer.

Both/all parties can be working in the project at the same time, share their changes, and not worry about a thing. That whole re-linking, sending the disc between you?

Totally unnecessary in Team Projects.

Neil

[denisad11432051]

Wow lots of totally amazing content in this, thank you so very much - sorry for only replying to this now, but had a couple of days off haha. But seriously, really insightful and interesting, Neil you are a legend of this forum!

[denisad11432051]

Thank you very much Kevin, yes our issue is not working from shared storage... Maybe I am wrong but it seems to me that there is a lack of really solid Adobe released material regarding Productions and Team Projects (I have read the things they provide, but really it is relatively thin in terms of going into specific workflows) - my editor asked about TP and Productions in a pro editor whatsapp group, and all the other 15 members expressed their interest, but didn't know much about it - which is still giving Avid an edge - because the only place to find out indepth info is really the adobe forums and people like you and Neil...

[R Neil Haugen]

They are rather short on the materials on how to actually use their programs in real-life work. Mo & I have been working on developing some materials on the Team Projects processes, both to get something done we actually need and to co-produce materials illustrating working with TP.

Would love to know the areas you see most limited information about, that you need.

I see problems in:

• How the Owner sets up the project and media organization.
• How the media is distributed in specific use and terms.
• How the collaborators "install" media on their systems and then manage that into the project.
• How additional assets such as graphics, mogrts, and other on-the-fly additions are handled.
• How to facilitate work in AfterEffects and Audition.
• Trouble-shooting problems.

That's all, really. Well, rather, that's about all the steps of working in TP isn't it? Sigh.

Neil

[denisad11432051]

This all sounds good to me Neil! It's a very comprehensive list, and as you point out, it encompasses basically the whole TP workflow haha! And that's even before we start talking about specific workflows in Productions.... Someone somewhere has a lot of homework to do haha.

[Andy 1968]

You can use Premiere Pro projects with Windows 10, Windows 7 and Mac OS X but you need to format the hard drives to EXFAT instead of HFS+ or NTFS. That being said Cloud Storage might work best.

[Michael Grenadier]

Andy1968, are you saying to use cloud storage for media?  Don't think that's a good idea bwdik.  There have been some reports here of issues with that workflow.  Might work with proxies....

On the issue of formatting drives as exfat, gotta say I would test this before moving a lot of media to an exfat drive.  I had an experience recently where I was delivering a large video file for a live event.  I had formatted the drive as exfat and the windows laptop the av guys were using could not read it.  Luckily, we had a copy of the file on dropbox and were able to download it directly to the machine.  

For my desktop windows machine that I use to collaborate with mac premiere users, I installed this

https://www.paragon-software.com/us/home/hfs-windows/

Not very expensive and has worked without issues for the last 6 months.  

[Andy 1968]

mgrenadeir,

I did not say anything about cloud storage for media. My comment was in response to the original poster. If you have to colaborate with other people in different locatons uploading and storing things in the cloud for down load might work out better than phyiscal drives?

I use EXFAT all the time with my PC and Mac Mini.

SD cards use EXFAT. All Paragon is doing is allowing the Windows OS to read HFS+ drives. If a Windows PC cannot read EXFAT drives something is wrong with the PC. I don't doubt you could have problems with Paragon just as easily. EXFAT gets rid of a lot of the data encryption that can cause problems when sharing drives between different OS. Windows PC can read NTFS but if you go from Windows 7 to Windows 10 using NTSF you might have some issues. That is not the case with EXFAT.

[Michael Grenadier]

you made a statement about using icloud and did not exclude media.   Sorry if I misread it...   And all I said about exfat was my personal experience (and I clearly stated that) and started by suggesting that the op test the workflow before spending a great deal of time copying the media.  Don't think that's ever a bad idea.    And that's the voice of experience speaking.