Variable frame rate video with Premiere Pro

Report · Dec 04, 2012

Variable frame rate video comes from many places these days: phones, live streamed video recordings.

Adobe Premiere is a supposedly production level piece of software that cost a good chunk of change.

How is it 2012 and Adobe does not still have an answer to this problem? After trying to editing/convert/mux/edit variable frame rate videos for the past 5 hours I am just exhausted. No amount of conversion apps, etc have saved us and THEY SHOULD NOT HAVE TOO.

We have spent thousands on Adobe software packages over the last decade, probably 10s of thousands, and the only answer I find consistently is to switch to Vegas.

Surely, SURELY someone at Adobe with real insight into the issue can help answer the question of whether users moving into different medium should find a place elsewhere in the software ecosystem...

Message was edited by: Kevin Monahan

Reason: to make article more searchable

Title changed.

Report · Apr 03, 2016

Im youtuber and im recording mobile games (android games). On Android you cant record btw. play a game with constant fps, they are always between 20-30 fps. How can i switch between constant and variable fps on Adobe Premiere Pro CC 2014 ?? Because if the fps getting constant my voice getting asychrone 😕 I hope somebody can help me!

Report · Apr 03, 2016

There is no setting in Pr for that.

Convert to constant with HandBrake

Report · Apr 03, 2016

not entirely accurate. right click clip, turn on frame blending. it guesses frames where it can. more than 5 reframes and you might get chop. but its better with 4gb gfx card or greater. converting to constant might drop some missing frames and just move the rest around a bit, speeding up one section to keep frame rate.

for the record, vfr is handled by premiere with frame blending. premiere also works the audio and sends that through another app via dynamic linking--audio component needs standard sample rate, and standard frame rate to conform to otherwise slight sync problems in output. most playback will clip out small portions of audio and stretch it over new frame rate, usually hard to tell, but slipping out of sync for 1-2s and then back in will make pros and artists a bit unnerved. premiere attempts to bridge gaps by allowing vfr, but forcing you to tell it what to do. fixing it yourself takes time, but can look better when you do, though short autofixes look great anyway, and avoid audio fixing. if youre a pro and can do audio fixes and have the time, you can fix the audio and leave reframing out of the equation.

recap:

two schools of thought for vfr fixes

1. fix audio where it drops frames by stretching etc on your own.

2. turn on frame blending for the original file and let premiere try to guess frames. it will stutter a bit until you render previews of the affected area.

premiere does, in fact, handle vfr; just in a professional manner. it lets you chose how to handle it. other apps expect you to be a complete nube/novice and insult the intelligence and artistic vision of guys like me. premiere may be the wrong app for you. if others work easier for you, use them. its no crime to go with what works for you. its actually very intelligent to do so. it is just a bit more intrepid to study up, try something a few times, and acquire understanding~~if not proficiency~~ with something different or new.

Handbrake:

handbrake will reframe, usually, and short drops wont be trouble. but more than 5fps over stretches of 5 dropped or more, and it will look a bit blurred. command line work has some tools for audio manipulation in the algorithm, and will speed video up by varying audio so that i, b, and n frames end up temporarily closer together following adjustments to their audio samples. between, audio is compressed faster, slightly slower at them, and clipped a bit in several places to match it to the new frame rate so it doesn't lose sync for long enough to be seen by novice eyes. command line programming has never been my strong suit, ive only seen this work once for a linux power user pal.

lastly,

vfr is a "source only" phenomena for pros who output for multimedia (variable playback devices; many types/apps). since different apps approach vfr differently in playback, pros deliver (delivery format) in a constant frame rate to ensure consistent results for any app or device.

for this phenomena, Premiere is great for all walks of video editor, so long as you understand what vfr comes from and how to flip a switch to let premiere deal with it, or how to adjust for it yourself.

personally, ive only done it myself once or twice, and while results were good, the worktime was long for a short frame set. I use frame blending for any section up to 5s with intermittent rate changes, and adjust audio myself otherwise. there are some areas that cannot be fixed much due to a novice camera operator, and we've all been that, and many have dealt with them multiple times daily. find a way to handle it that best suits your workflow.

sorry for the textbook, but didnt want to leave room for misunderstanding.

Sent from my iPhone

Report · Apr 03, 2016

Very interesting post with a LOT of info I've never seen before. Might even try shooting some video with my new Samsung S7 (my 4 was dying) and see what it does.

Neil

Report · Apr 03, 2016

Works with my shaky Iphone shots! I'm horrible with that thing! LOL.

Although, I've had it do a freeze and sneeze kind of blend when I really

had some handheld camera shake; a blurred freezeframe until more frames

appeared. TiP: TURN OFF IMAGE STABILIZERS on your camera. The FRAME DROP

that causes VFR comes from that. If you have an iphone or there's no way

to turn it off, I re-iterate, there are some VFR drops that cannot be

fixed; best to cut them out somehow. My luck, it's been at the beginning

or end of a shot, so I was able to cut just a bit off the ends. I'm not

the best cameraman, so I've had to study up on how to get better at editing

to fix after the fact, as well as how to shoot better video.

TRIPODS! Who knew?!

On Sun, Apr 3, 2016 at 7:35 PM, R Neil Haugen <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

Report · Apr 06, 2016

I was able to find a work around for the iPhone using Adobe's own software.

I wasn't satisfied with the Handbrake fix, even though it was very close and resulted in a small file size. I'm on a Mac so tried encoding to Apple ProRes, but the file sizes where way too big.

Decided to check out if there was a way to upload the videos through Creative Cloud or export through a Adobe App. I imported my videos to a project in Adobe Premiere Clip then exported to my camera roll. Then normal process from there. Took a long time, but are the best results I have be able to produce so far.

The app does have limitations. Syncing any large file to Creative Cloud takes too long (I actually turned off the wifi on my phone to kill the sync so I could export to my camera roll faster) and it stops the export if you close the app leaving you without use of your device for an extended period of time.

But has given me the best results so far so I wanted to share. And I might be dreaming, but maybe could point to a starting point for an overall solution to VFR problem.

And a quick response to those who were saying VFR wouldn't be a problem if we just worked with "professional" equipment. I work in legal presentations and often need to include footage taken at the accident scene by witnesses. So while I can use professional equipment to take interviews or other pre set recordings, I still have to deal with lots of videos with VFR because that is what the witnesses used and I don't have control over that. I would assume professionals using this program for documentaries or working in the media as well as gaming would benefit from this so it's a fair implementation to ask for.

Report · Apr 08, 2016

Hi nelsonb,

I was able to find a work around for the iPhone using Adobe's own software.

I imported my videos to a project in Adobe Premiere Clip then exported to my camera roll. Then normal process from there.

Hmm. That sounds pretty cool. Do the same clips transferred directly from your iPhone to your Mac HD work as well? The reason why I'm asking is that I know that the Apple Camera App shoots in either variable or constant frame rate depending on the lighting situation. My experience, anyway. In a well lit scene, the footage from the phone is shot at a constant rate.

Tell me, did you shoot the footage in daylight?

Thanks,

Kevin

Report · Apr 12, 2016

IF you're talking premiere ELEMENTS, I'd say put in the blending mode automatic. Not a bug so much as an option to be auto-handled.

FOR YOU PROFESSIONAL Premiere Pro (Yes that's why it's called Pro) USERS:

The function has been there since CS5. It's simply a T10G problem (Turn it on, Genius). You can turn on the blending mode in premiere or go more perfectionist, and clip the audio. Either way, I wouldn't turn it on automatic. Different circumstances can call for different handling. Pros understand that. Fly-By-Night operations do not.

For legal purposes, you may want to note that you turned on frame blending for the video, and turn it on. Just try opening the video with VLC first, and find the menu option for "Media Information"--Find the REFRAME or REFRAMES count, as this tells you how many frames have been dropped. Playback will sometimes "Guess" the frames the same as a frame blend in Premiere, but will vary in accuracy and quality. Other times, it will skip audio samples where a frame is missing.

Basic rules of audio clipping (Old-hat, Pro way):

Audio at 48k has 2k samples per frame of video at 24p. So when you find the areas where your video de-syncs, if you can find dead air just before the slip (dropped frame), clip out 2k samples or roughly .0005 seconds of audio. The math changes a little with 30p and 60p, but it's very similar. At 30p, (48\30)x1000 =samples per frame->SPF->SPF*dropped frames=audio to clip->ATC->ATC can be found anywhere in the second before the drop or in the drop where there is dead air, but do not clip pauses in speech too much (so find several areas and clip by sample count).

As for the comment:

"The only dif between pro and amateur is that pro gets paid," This is totally untrue. Many pros do non-profit work and don't get paid for it. Many amateurs get paid for substandard work that provides what the buyer needs at a price that matches the level of work. I've been both. Amateurs can become pros by experimenting and studying, building their understanding and wisdom. Pros provide output that is higher quality, conforms to standard norms of the business (VFR is for Amateur cams, without tripods or steadycams and is a cameraman's folly). IF you are cameraman and editor, you are more often an Amateur at one or both, possibly more professional with one skill. Anymore, all editors start with "Prosumer" cams (cameras that offer professional sharpness and image quality, but are cheaper made, lighter, and usually use Electronic stabilization that drops frames), but start to see the changes in quality and seek more professional results. This means that true professionals will do one of two things:

1. Get Professional Equipment (pricey, occasionally difficult to learn)

2. Learn to get similar results from your current equipment (using old school techniques with broadcast standards for your output, you can process your video by dropping a few "frames" of audio to put your video back in sync without altering the quality of the imaging; it's an old carry over from film cutting and it works).

Report · May 08, 2016

Enabling frame blending on the source footage within premiere does not resolve the issues stated in the thread.

For certain things audio clipping would work, but for long pieces of footage, like that from video games which often is recorded in VFR, I haven't found a reliable way of editing the footage outside of using Handbrake.

Report · May 10, 2016

Do it before dropping the file into a sequence, or try on the file within the sequence as well. cs 5 needed on sequence, but 6 worked in project panel before adding to sequence and on any you already added, you had to apply it in sequence.

otherwise, media encoder with frame blending on does same as handbrake.

Sent from my iPhone

Report · Sep 11, 2016

Using handbrake is still a current fix. So is PRELUDE with frame blending. The process is called INGESTION. It is supposed to allow you to take care of problems like color space mismatches, dropped frames, interlace mismatch. Unfortunately, apple still has the best algorithm for motion adapted interlace to progressive output, but you can still shift the interlace by dropping a single frame, half from front and half from last. This will shift the framing but will allow switching interlace field order; this is what most apps will do to shift field order, inserting and extending by 1 frame, or dropping 1, shifting each field.

INGESTION allows you to work with all the data in the same colorspace and general format, making it less stressful to edit. However, some perfectionists will use the same wrapper format (file extension), with the original data settings for interlace and some other settings, putting them in their own sequences for adding effects before dropping or altering quality. They will place PROXIES, or compressed\quality dropped versions into the main sequence until they finish adding effects or adjustments, then replace them later. It's common practice to INGEST YOUR VIDEO FIRST.

When editing video or any other artistic process, you always have to sketch out your work in some way. Sculptors will draw sectionals of their sculpture INSIDE the shape of the block they carve; painters will sketch the basic scene first, marking spatial dynamics, and outlining the work; photographers will do stick figure drawings at the very least, placing symbols and notations for gender and other aspects of form to note what areas will draw attention; cinematographers will storyboard their shots as best they can, and nature documentarians will simply plan out basic shots based on what they have already seen of behavior; Editors have a whole other art that combines a lot of this all together. Editors will have to look over the story, find meaning in each section, and paint it according to the technique required, or adding a new flare by choosing just the right cuts. In order to do this, you have to know that what you're getting doesn't have "TECHNICAL ISSUES". This means color and frame type must match so you can imagine what you'll see with each edit and not have to worry about certain mismatches causing it to look awful--removing the value of that edit.

INGEST. It saves more time than it actually eats up.

Final cut does this automatically, but takes up a lot of power to do it. Most will take that time to tag and name clips. other apps don't care, and if you don't mind some jitter or jumping around occasionally, then by all means, use them. When working with a more PROSUMER app like premiere, expect to act a bit more professionally in order for it to function as you might expect.

Report · Oct 11, 2016

None of the work around's here worked for me.

PluralEyes was the closest thing I have found to automating a solution. Pluraleyes can automatically sync up potentially hundreds of audio and video tracks for you and export them into Premiere. However it doesn't quite work with VFR as of yet. After demuxing and syncing audio/video tracks, it made the audio file slightly longer than the video, and it remained out of sync all the way through.

Why are so many spending so much time and energy discouraging Adobe to adopt novel features and improve upon their products? "Improved functionality and productivity isn't for Adobe, isn't very 'professional' people... go on burn your money on more products you probably cannot afford anyway... let Adobe be." Well, that's pretty much the gist of it to me anyway. Thank you Adobe staff for being reasonable and open minded to all possibilities. One addition to the program will not undermine the rest of its functionality and features. This has been an important feature request by many users for years now. Adobe's VFR user base continues burning quality, time, and resources working with other products. I see its cross platform, so AE shares the same issue. So I imagine it will require a slight revamping of the suite. Where there is a vision there is always a way. An additional VFR interpreting timebase/sequence module that can create (very basic) regenerated time/frame sequenced maps, which can be layered into CFR timeline sequences is just one viable solution. A frameserver module built into Premiere for VFR and other formats could do this as well. All video players playback the footage in sync, simply and quickly without issue. It can playback in Adobe just as fast and easily. Just gotta think outside the frame TMPGEnc Xpress allows for cutting and editing VFR footage frame by frame... though encode times are quadruple that of Premiere, FFmpeg and similar software, and cutting/editing features are lacking, as of the licence I own, 4.7.8.309. Still, they did it, and it works smoothly and quickly. Vegas Pro is able to sync and edit the footage properly as well, though it is lacking in features and performance from my experience. There is no reason that Adobe staff cannot find a way should they wish to.

In both the Iphone4s and the earlier Iphone4 .MOV footage has resulted in major sync issues in Adobe Premiere & After Effects. In Premiere, both the Adobe source monitor and sequence playback audio/video are out of sync. Depending upon the length of the videos, they can becomes tens of seconds out of sync near the end of the sequence. Starting at the beginning and moving on through the end, it is required one cut and shorten the audio or video into many synced segments. Its time consuming and leaves many short gaps in video/audio, and in some cases its impossible to align them properly without working frame by frame as the framerate continually fluctuates.

The sequences were automatically generated from the clip. I've tried custom FPS adjustments, renaming the file extension to MPG, saving a reference file in Quicktime. None of these rectify the sync issues I had within Premiere Pro and After Effects. These videos play flawlessly in every player I throat at them, all except for Premieres source monitor.

Until a fix has been implemented, all yee faithful Adobe users out there... a great alternative to handbreak is FFmpeg's front-end GUI "FFe." It works very well and efficiently for transcoding VFR footage. Just be sure to rename the output file with extension .mp4 otherwise it will output MKV which isn't supported by Premiere. FFa will auto-rotate your Iphone video vertically if you recorded the video at an angle. Something handbreak will not do without input commands. I'm not sure about upside-down footage.

For Rotation with Handbreak, enter the following command into the ‘Extra Options’ under video settings (with the comma)

To rotate: , --rotate=#

1 : x flip

2 : y flip

3 : 180 degrees rotate (also the DEFAULT)

4 : 90 degrees rotate (clockwise)

5 : 90 degrees rotate + y flip

6 : 270 degrees rotate + y flip

7 : 270 degrees rotate (or 90 anticlockwise)

MediaInfo:

Format : MPEG-4

Format profile : QuickTime

Codec ID : qt 0000.00 (qt )

File size : 1.80 GiB

Duration : 1h 12mn

Overall bit rate : 3 577 Kbps

Recorded date : 2016-10-05T14:35:47-0700

Encoded date : UTC 2016-10-05 21:35:47

Tagged date : UTC 2016-10-05 21:36:00

Writing application : 7.1.2

Writing library : Apple QuickTime

Model : iPhone 4

Make : Apple

com.apple.quicktime.make : Apple

com.apple.quicktime.creatio : 2016-10-05T14:35:47-0700

com.apple.quicktime.softwar : 7.1.2

com.apple.quicktime.model : iPhone 4

Video

ID : 1

Format : AVC

Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec

Format profile : Baseline@L3

Format settings, CABAC : No

Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame

Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=30

Codec ID : avc1

Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding

Duration : 1h 12mn

Source duration : 1h 12mn

Bit rate : 3 506 Kbps

Width : 640 pixels

Height : 480 pixels

Display aspect ratio : 4:3

Rotation : 90°

Frame rate mode : Variable

Frame rate : 29.884 fps

Minimum frame rate : 12.000 fps

Maximum frame rate : 31.579 fps

Color space : YUV

Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0

Bit depth : 8 bits

Scan type : Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.382

Stream size : 1.77 GiB (98%)

Source stream size : 1.77 GiB (98%)

Title : Core Media Video

Encoded date : UTC 2016-10-05 21:35:47

Tagged date : UTC 2016-10-05 21:36:00

Color range : Limited

Color primaries : BT.601 NTSC

Transfer characteristics : BT.709

Matrix coefficients : BT.601

Audio

ID : 2

Format : AAC

Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec

Format profile : LC

Codec ID : 40

Duration : 1h 12mn

Source duration : 1h 12mn

Bit rate mode : Constant

Bit rate : 64.0 Kbps

Channel(s) : 1 channel

Channel positions : Front: C

Sampling rate : 44.1 KHz

Frame rate : 43.066 fps (1024 spf)

Compression mode : Lossy

Stream size : 33.1 MiB (2%)

Source stream size : 33.1 MiB (2%)

Title : Core Media Audio

Encoded date : UTC 2016-10-05 21:35:47

Tagged date : UTC 2016-10-05 21:36:00

Report · Oct 11, 2016

One or two of the more active helpers around here does consider VFR unprofessional, and would prefer the PrPro team fix certain continuing issues or add/replace a few other features before spending budget time on handling VFR, especially as there are freebie means for "handling" the situation available.

For the rest of us, it isn't that we don't want PrPro to handle VFR, note all the suggestions to give a bug/feature report for this?

The reason for why so many of the comments in response to complaints about this may come across as perhaps non-supportive is rather basic. Complaining here doesn't do one thing to get the implementation of VFR going. The people you would need to reach do not 'come' here. Period. So there's nothing any of us can do about it, no help we can give. Many of us have already filed the bug/feature reports on this issue ourselves.

When we have VFR footage, we either already use Handbrake or ffmeg anyway. Ideal? No. Reality? Yes.

A good bit of your post, concerning solutions to working with ffmpeg, was quite useful, btw. As yes, for the foreseeable future we all need workarounds.

Report · Oct 11, 2016

VFR IS unprofessional... ...It's not "Considered" unprofessional. It happens in the camera, so yes it is the fault of the cameraperson. However, it's not always something you can turn off. Premiere only takes in an input and processes it. If your input is broken, it's not a bug with Adobe, it's a bug with your camera. Simple logic, right? To implement such a function would introduce lags in the playback engine and loading engines. It's a time bomb. Not to mention the fact that different codecs will handle frame drops in different ways. If they do "Fix" this, it will take a long time to code, and implement, as most of the XML assets now have to be "Exposed" to scripting environments for plugin builders. Plugins will be the next thing they'd have to deal with... ...How will the plugins handle the data? It's a house of cards.

I've submitted the complaint, but what I got back is that they now require you to INGEST through another app (now on the iphone with a cloud app), like Prelude, though they have taken the functions under "Advisement". This is what I would expect from any professional to begin with!! INGESTION!

My workflows with premiere:

Ingest through the camera usb into PRELUDE, with a Codec that matches the CAMERA INPUT to several files:

------1. A full file (YUV at full data size) for output processing

------2. A Proxy file for basic editing (low res)

------3. A Proxy file for more detailed edits (High res- 15-30mb blu-ray style h.264 encode)

------4. Highest possible quality audio only for synchronization in Plural Eyes

When I go to Media encoder, I add new outputs to the input line, or I simply go through prelude over and over again on a tower with plenty of power. It works faster that way. If I add the outputs in Media encoder, they can process side by side, and it will take less time as the frames are only cached once.

During all of these operations, I use my own presets (based on Adobe presets for quicktime or h.264) that include the frame blend options

Why?

Transcoding with these options gives me speed, ease of operation, and I haven't had a bug since december 2014. I've replicated other bugs to help out here, but that's all. I've had a bug or two with Audition. It's not for recording, it's for mixing... Got it.

Handbrake... ...That goes a bit far for amateurs. Why not start acting like the professionals a little bit. INGEST the video from the Camera into formats that offer what you need for editing and for output. Here's the kick... ...If you use a High res 30mbps h.264, you get the best of both. I've gotten away with a 50mbps h.264 with a slow machine. Depending on your style of video or the production you shot, you can vary this according to the tempo of the action. It provides a single output for cutting together. If you have multiple cameras 20-35 is the max for up to 4, and that's with CS6 on 4gb SDRAM 256VRAM with a core2duo.

Another option for those who'd rather use something less stressful:

Quicktime playback will transcode to a lesser apple codec. I suggest you use progressive video in camera though. The interlaced through here can get a little choppy. Open AVCHD file in Quicktime, it will show you your list of clips (that you clipped in camera), and you can output each one, one at a time, to a new file by going to file menu, export to 1080p. It takes a while, but it works well enough.

Of course, I haven't output anything larger than 1080 in QT, and haven't seen the option to.

Report · Oct 14, 2016

VFR...happens in the camera

It really doesn't. Proper cameras all use constant frame rates.

Report · Oct 19, 2016

"proper" cameras is not a thing, Camera's that record CFR is a preference, albiet the most common preference. Video is video, pictures in motion. I've major television shows under my belt, all that matters is making the final outcome look good. How you go about it, is a decision everyone involved with video capture makes. However, any "TOOL" that records in VFR may or may not have applicable uses for some, however the OUTPUT in the average live stream IS in VFR. As that strategy saves a LOT of resources for the largest streaming providers. Even if you upload stream in CFR, for example, Twitch.TV will output VFR unless you are partnered, and even major big studios do not have a partnered channel to stream from. For professional events, most will record onsite the stream in it's native format before it goes to twitch.tv for later editing. However, most twitch.tv users will later download their live streams from twitch and edit them as that saves the most computer resources and file sizes. To stream a leading video game when it has it's maximum 3D visual settings applied as well as recording the source video at the same time is incredibly taxing on the average gaming PC. It's just not feasible for most. Hence they download their streams from the provider later to edit. That's how the video gaming live streaming industry works. You Jim, have been a huge opponent of VFR anything since this thread started, you've been claiming time and time again that VFR is sub par in general with the way you word your responses. Please educate yourself on how the video game live streaming industry is entirely different than traditional formats. There are streamers who make more in one stream, than a major motion picture editor will make in a year. It's a thriving industry... and VFR is what most usually end up with to edit for YouTube later.

Report · Oct 20, 2016

"proper" cameras is not a thing

Sure it is. There's a right way to do things, and a wrong way. Cameras that do not record video at a constant frame rate are wrong, they're built incorrectly.

Note that I'm not talking about over- and under-craking here. That's a very different thing that what's being discussed in this thread.

Report · Oct 20, 2016

Actually VFR DOES happen in the camera, Jim, be it a streaming video cam or a "prosumer one. The CAMERA senses some shake or slow motion that doesn't require full rate, and it compensates to save data. In some cases, the software runs on a tower, receives the message, and tosses frames; making the software a back end for the lens, and thus, logically part of the camera. Once the output is captured, you cannot go back in time to capture it all over again, even if you're shooting for a television episode. Your output will be VFR, and you may want to retake the shot to turn that off, but the original is still VFR.

Most Pros know that it will happen and plan ahead. They have a person ready with more data cards, and swap out after a few shots, to allow the videos to be ingested and coded to full frame rate, Typically, one or two reframes can be blended nicely by most ingestion software (transcoding). This also allows them to prep several file sets for sync, edit and output linkage, so they can work fast, then output higher quality later with a relink. Thus, just because Streamers end up with it, and it can play back just fine doesn't mean editing it will work the same. Instant playback only plays back the data without processing it through anything other than the playback. Editing requires the data to be redone midstream, and effected with new data, requiring the old data to be replaced with new for every frame of an edit, at least two simultaneous engines working (sometimes more). Streamers may make good $, and decent videos, but they aren't EDITORS. Premiere really isn't meant for a live stream, though you could use it to encode a live feed to a file. It's update of file data is tied to a renewal cycle that isn't constant, but run according to the number of seconds you give it in prefs. Not conducive to live edits. AVID's got that down, but requires input cards, and other equipment to boost the processing power and throughput capability, a full on externally provided graphics architecture, plugged in to your main computer. See the Difference?

Streamers are the new cinema for the social media age. Of course they'll make a little scratch from advertisers, and product pushers, as well as the viewers. Not really a different model there, just a different output location. The box office is online, the screen is in the viewers' home, there's not a realistic limit on seating or even a start time limit, and everybody gets an intimate view. That doesn't mean that the film maker shouldn't understand the medium they use to present the idea; and that information isn't limited to simply knowing that its a file, or that the frame rate varies, or that the quality will degrade. It also encompasses the WHY of much of that. The files in many cameras are compressed, not full pictures of the frame, some of those frames are often dropped to maintain stability of image, which happens more rarely with the right tripod or motion rig, and that most programs that require higher system power will not care. Premiere does care, but falls into the lower initial system requirement genre, targeting pros whose bottom line is heavily affected by their software choice, middle to high end clip-makers, short film studios, and analysts, and even the student market. These are people who HAVE to care about the way the data is formatted for space, and for system requirement (usually less costly systems, even mobile). Not developing that understanding is like trying to build your own house because your daddy taught you how to use a drill when you were 5. I won't go to your house party unless you have a full disaster and medical team on standby.

Report · Nov 24, 2016

The fact that so many people have to write these long, florid explanations in defence of the missing feature is in itself, a testament to how sorely the feature is missed! If it's omission was so obvious, there wouldn't need to be all these explanations.

HarleyTDavis, you've described a use case that makes sense for Film and TV. That's great. But video editing has become more widespread now. We have the internet. We have web-based video streams, and video game footage capture. These are VBR for bandwidth and performance reasons, respectively. Are you going to say making advertisements showing the game-play of the latest AAA title isn't "professional video editing"? Many YouTube celebrities, game developers, etc. put a lot of time and money into their footage, and would take offence at you calling them "unprofessional" just because they don't fit your mould of what a professional does. As would the other professionals who've posted in this very thread, pointing out how "unprofessional" it is to have to rely on free, third-party software instead, to get the job done.

Every other competing video editing program supports VBR footage - even pithy old Windows Movie Maker! It's confusingly absent from Premiere, which can only be attributed to a strange set of priorities on Adobe's part. The fact that they keep saying we just haven't made enough noise about it while their competitors have already covered this for years, to me seems tone-deaf and vastly out of touch.

Report · Nov 25, 2016

There is no point grumbling here on the forum.

Long posts, short posts (I hate long ones, dont read them).

make a Feature Request

The more Adobe gets the more likely it going to be implemented maybe anytime soon.

Report · Dec 09, 2016

hi folks, and there´s another superanoyed premiere user because they tell us (all THOSE who want IT) that WE don´t need IT - or they don´t tell us, that THEY don´t want US who want IT. they seem to have a thinking that results in an acting of AVOIDANCE of having KIDS using premiere to post or show or whateva their GAMES and so on, of having normal non-business people using premiere to show their holiday-videos on fb or whatever anyways anoying website, of having xxxvideos somewhere in the neighbourhood with a proud line unbeneath saying ´done with adope bremiere´ and so on. this issue is a pro´s distinguishing issue, like it was somewhat unclearer already say on threadpage nr. 1 very early on the upper half of this first page of this thread.

did someone say óther editing progs can do it`??? yes, many did. and many can. many people can easily say that many programs do it because it´s true.

what is may----be true is what greg of i think this forum-holders people said about - abouzt what? about guidelines of what to implement into a program annd what not. but it shurly has nothing to do with this thread - except that - according to these guidelines they HAD to put it into premiere just when it came up; but only if it was just up to THESE guidelines.

beside THESE there are OTHERS, not just seemigly...

the OTHERS are as simple as that:

WE ARE THE PROFESSIONAL PROGRAM

let the OTHERS implement what mr. smith and mr. wesson want the program to do. we are the guys withn the program for the PRO´s.

sleep well, my dearest marketing devision!

i hope u wake up , luckily, tomorrow morning, and still have a job.

my best regards

ezechiel in harmony with jesaya 2016

enjoy ur day

p.s.

this thread is JUST one in a long line of similar - if not identical threads here since at least 2012, or even older times. this greg may even already be in the next well-payed "comunications"job in the next formerly prestigious company, or in the next next or... perhaps he´s the boss of the marketing division of adobe today...

p.p.s.

sorry for the unclear DATE thing - i was just looking at the initial post of this thread - there it has a date, it says:

rmshro0 07.03.2016 21:00

so i was for some shock-seconds thinking that i´d be now in a newer other some strange other thread.

now i looked at the second post, it says:

shooternz 04.12.2012 21:31 (als Antwort auf: rmshro0)

veryfunny forum, where the first answer to the initial thread comes 4 years before the initial post.

yes, guys n dolls, u r so cute to ban me for saying dolls and extinguish what is written, so u also are so cute to tell "very important" reasons for having wrong dates on initial posts. i won´t read it, so spare ur time and just let it be. u love u anyways, and i cannot change that in my lifetime. go on like this.. we don´t care either. but we tell our friends. and we have friends. do u?

p.p.p.s.

Mrs. Ann Bens 25.11.2016 06:10 (als Antwort auf: Domarius)

wants mr. Domarius to write a feature request. as if he had not already worked enuff for mr.adobe by saying very strict lines on this adobe forum. do u, mrs. Bens, know Franz Kafka´s most famous works called "Das Schloss"

see wiki for that, but don´t read the wiki,

The Castle (novel) - Wikipedia

if u really think what u wrote - and r NOT workin for this company with the A - read the book, but don´t finish ur reading. u should be slightly wiser after the first 25 pages, and u be a superwise mrs. Bens shortly after page 125.

the end is unimportant for most readers, because it has an end (the book) because it has (to have) an end. just like this sentence. but the interesting thing is the process of NOTHING happening, no matter, what the protagonist named K. does. just like here.

p.p.p.p.s.

so we come to THE ONE and ONLY question: for how long will this thread go on?

easy supermegaEASY answer:

so long as the marketing division of adobe continous to go with this strategy of marketing adobe products.

so long as nobody has the will to change the marketing strategy for adobe products.

so long as the guys who make the rules for marketing at adobe have so much power over all the other divisions such as sales, developement, research etc. that whatever THEY want has for the POWER =and the marketing absolutely no meaning or - let´s say IMPACT. imagine that u r a developer for premiere. all ur friends and fellow programers laugh at u every saturday night when they meet at some gameplay evening. adobe must pay good i guess for that. for that doin nothing because we cannot. enjoy ur hushems, it´s o.k, as far as the money is concerned. is it nice to play unable for money? i´m shure it is. but - of course that´s my fiction opinion. reality is always harder...

Report · Dec 09, 2016

sorry for answering myself, but i would not want to get to long, as not to oppose Mrs. Ann Bens post nr. 193 (25.11.2016 06:10, unedited, one (1) person found her post usefull so far - was it Greg?)

so, this post from Greg Baber that i mentioned in my post before, is actually the third post on page two of this thread.

it was written, as the system says, on " 26.04.2013 07:41 (als Antwort auf: videaha) ",

and is post nr. 42 in this thread

i make a citation to show that this post nr. 42 ( Greg´s) has actually much much less to do with the initial post from " rmshro0 07.03.2016 21:00 "(lol), , than what i am writing about has to do with the initial post in my two posts here in this thread, AND that it´s only purpose is to tell people - who are not part of the industry - things that they could perhaps imagine as real life "REASONS" for adobe for not implementing the in this Forum REQUESTEd things like this vbr-stuff for a good reason. so for u not having so search in 3 year old posts, here it is again, with my own structurization, nothing else changed:

Gregs post number 42

begins with

I.), i call it: it´s so hard(to know what THEY want {target group} (and what the OTHERS)!

"

In response to your point, let me explain a little bit about

adding features.

This is not just true of Adobe, but all software development. It comes down to a balancing act. We only have so much time per software cycle to get new features added into Premiere. Even simple additions take some time to implement and test before they can go live so there has to be some prioritizing happening. So, to prioritize we look at several factors.

First, how many customers are asking for a feature. Some features are in demand, overwhelming our product teams. Others are for a specific niche market, that could really use this feature but it is not something the majority of our users would even notice. The way we gauge this demand is through customer contact: feature request forums, these forums and direct customer feedback. That gives us the best possible picture of what all of our customers want.

"

it says "The way we gauge this demand is through customer contact: feature request forums, these forums and direct customer feedback" so, it says THESE forums, and other forums, and direct...

did u ever have DIRECT contact to a adobe official? did the talk to u once somewhere? except for Greg and he´s - well, lets say friends...

Greg goes on with

II.), i call it: it´s so hard(to do what WE want THEM to...)

"

Second, we have to look at how difficult it can be to implement the requested feature. Some features can be easily added - moving a button in the interface for example. Some features are very difficult to implement - the warp stabilizer was the result of a lot of hard work. What you are asking for may be very difficult to implement, even if other software companies have implemented it. I do not know. The people who know this are the engineers who are looking into what features they are going to focus on.

"

aha, it´s so hard, that many competitors already have it for years. nice to know some indepts about the involved programmers. no, the marketing division is NOT envolved, thats for shure i think Greg would swear to....

so, Greg seems to me to be a smart guy (won´t get banned for "guy", will I?), and comes to number

III.), which is for me a tiny little small PART of our - better: his number I.)

"

Third, we have to look at all the feature requests we get. From a pure time budgeting perspective, it is impossible to get every feature enabled. We all have pet projects we would love to see implemented that there hasn't been time to implement yet.

"

very funny, in Gregs number I.) he says that they have to look at "ALL" feature requests.

and now, in Gregs point III.) he says they have to look at"ALL" feature requests.

nice way of making two out of one, i´m sure he´s good in what he seems to be supposed to do. at work, at least.

AND he tells us that they have PET projects. but not if this is one of theyr beloved ones, does he?

let´s get to the for me again rather boring Gregs number

IV.)

"

We have to take all of those criteria, and balance them. So, sometimes we get a feature that is easy to implement, that many people are demanding, and we have the time and resources available, so it becomes included in the next version. Often, it doesn't come together that nicely. We do keep going at it. Maybe we don't have the resources this cycle. Maybe the demand is growing between cycles.

"

so GREAT, sometimes they even keep going at it. if they have the time and the resources available. included in the next version, like if it depended just on next weeks lotto-numbers. cool. yes, me neither has won even anything in lotto. doesn´t come so nicely so often. thank´s Greg, you sound(ed) like my pessimistic grandma never managed to sound. so optimistic...

AND

demand. it´s so small. perhaps - (prhps!!!) demand will grow. but it´s such a tiny little creature at the moment (remember: this "moment" was back in 1913)...

AND

by the way, what´s a cycle at adobe??? Greg doesn´t tell us about a cycle. he talks as if this "cycle"thing would be common sense. and nobody asks. that´s why Greg has this job. has had , i guess. at least will have had, at least after this post.

NOW Greg goes into deep short part explanation: Gregs part

V.), as i still want to call it:

"

The short part of this long story is the fact that we are still looking at all possibilities. Send in those feature requests - higher demand is always a good thing. We reevaluate those on a regular basis. We do not ignore anybody because we think they don't have the right equipment. We just are looking at a very large picture.

"

the 1st sentence means exactly... w hat?? gr3eat hurray for Gregs point V.)´s 1st sentence.

the 2nd sentence says what? send in those feature requests.... bravo Greg, u r a thru hereio!

i dont have the time in my whole live towrite, what should be written about the next 3/4/5 sentences, he even evaporates sentence structures and gives us a real nice very goooood feeeling for what´s to come in the future, just IF, and only if, but he doesn´tstress that out, if WE do what???? yes, u heard that before, remember urself, back in those days, trying to find a s o l u t i o n......

Gregs part

VI.) appells on u talking civilized rather than appropriate to how u feel about trying to FIND HELP for ur personal solution on an adobe forum

"

On another note, this thread has gotten very contentious. Keeping things on a civil level helps too - the people who decide the features to implement are human too and can have preconceptions if it appears that someone is acting irrationally. I mean that for everyone involved - we need to act like professionals.

"

yesss, there WE are again as the PROs, and if U ar not one who calls her/himself like this thEN just go and....do what, Greg???

so, i think i showed u that adobe will rather go bankrupped than implement vbr, not because they r stupid, but because they think they r very wise guys. in my oppinion they should fire the marketing division and give this business into the humble hands of women. i dont say this as some feministic fellow, i say that as an estimating realist with the bestregards to the history of the company.

gg

c

p.s.

i take every bet up to 100.00$ that adobe will do nothing for US who WANT THAT at least the next 3 years. send me a message, u, who want´s to bet against that...

p.p.s.

yes, i love to get richer fast

Report · Dec 09, 2016

what i forgot to tell:

ONE

this is the MEDIA INFO file for a video taken with a op2 (on plus 2) phone at

video resolution 1280x720 (0,9MP 16:9 HD

container format MP4

video codec H.264 (MPEG-4 Part 10 AVC

video bitrate 42000000

frame rate 30

shot with app

Cinema FV-5 version 1.52 pro, other versions available since 2013

TWO

this is the MEDIA INFO file for the same video put together with others into the windows program called MOVIE MAKER and then just by pressing a button called export generated video that contains all of them in one nice insync file that i can easily import into premiere, having thies file in absolutely perfect LIPSYNC!!!

the files i shot have together 17 gigabytes

the MADE file has 3,52 gigabytes

looks nice, was made in a winecellar , and is very much dark.

the resulting file looks on an average tv-screen just like the originals

ONE:

General

Complete name : E:\c video worx\c premiere weintaufe umschait 2016\cine0005.MP4

Format : MPEG-4

Format profile : Base Media / Version 2

Codec ID : mp42 (isom/mp42)

File size : 1.65 GiB

Duration : 5mn 37s

Overall bit rate : 42.1 Mbps

Encoded date : UTC 2016-11-11 20:19:33

Tagged date : UTC 2016-11-11 20:19:33

com.android.version : 6.0.1

Video

ID : 1

Format : AVC

Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec

Format profile : Baseline@L4.1

Format settings, CABAC : No

Format settings, ReFrames : 1 frame

Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=30

Codec ID : avc1

Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding

Duration : 5mn 36s

Source duration : 5mn 37s

Bit rate : 42.0 Mbps

Width : 1 280 pixels

Height : 720 pixels

Display aspect ratio : 16:9

Frame rate mode : Variable

Frame rate : 30.000 fps

Minimum frame rate : 5.524 fps

Maximum frame rate : 30.405 fps

Color space : YUV

Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0

Bit depth : 8 bits

Scan type : Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 1.518

Stream size : 1.65 GiB (100%)

Source stream size : 1.65 GiB (100%)

Title : VideoHandle

Language : English

Encoded date : UTC 2016-11-11 20:19:33

Tagged date : UTC 2016-11-11 20:19:33

mdhd_Duration : 336977

Audio

ID : 2

Format : AAC

Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec

Format profile : LC

Codec ID : 40

Duration : 5mn 37s

Source duration : 5mn 37s

Bit rate mode : Constant

Bit rate : 96.0 Kbps

Channel(s) : 2 channels

Channel positions : Front: L R

Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz

Frame rate : 46.875 fps (1024 spf)

Compression mode : Lossy

Stream size : 3.86 MiB (0%)

Source stream size : 3.86 MiB (0%)

Title : SoundHandle

Language : English

Encoded date : UTC 2016-11-11 20:19:33

Tagged date : UTC 2016-11-11 20:19:33

mdhd_Duration : 337083

TWO

General

Complete name : E:\c video worx\c premiere weintaufe umschait 2016\c gerechnete1\Mein Film.mp4

Format : MPEG-4

Format profile : Base Media / Version 2

Codec ID : mp42 (mp41/isom)

File size : 3.52 GiB

Duration : 58mn 28s

Overall bit rate : 8 629 Kbps

Encoded date : UTC 2016-12-10 01:16:44

Tagged date : UTC 2016-12-10 01:16:44

Video

ID : 1

Format : AVC

Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec

Format profile : Baseline@L4

Format settings, CABAC : No

Format settings, ReFrames : 2 frames

Format settings, GOP : M=1, N=30

Codec ID : avc1

Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding

Duration : 58mn 28s

Source duration : 58mn 28s

Bit rate : 8 428 Kbps

Width : 1 920 pixels

Height : 1 080 pixels

Display aspect ratio : 16:9

Frame rate mode : Constant

Frame rate : 29.970 (29970/1000) fps

Color space : YUV

Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0

Bit depth : 8 bits

Scan type : Progressive

Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.136

Stream size : 3.44 GiB (98%)

Source stream size : 3.44 GiB (98%)

Encoded date : UTC 2016-12-10 01:16:44

Tagged date : UTC 2016-12-10 01:16:44

mdhd_Duration : 3508739

Audio

ID : 2

Format : AAC

Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec

Format profile : LC

Codec ID : 40

Duration : 58mn 28s

Bit rate mode : Constant

Bit rate : 192 Kbps

Channel(s) : 2 channels

Channel positions : Front: L R

Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz

Frame rate : 46.875 fps (1024 spf)

Compression mode : Lossy

Stream size : 83.0 MiB (2%)

Encoded date : UTC 2016-12-10 01:16:44

Tagged date : UTC 2016-12-10 01:16:44

mdhd_Duration : 3508757

i have to say that i tried before that - what a pitty - all the methods described in THIS thread. all of them turned out to be asynchronious in premiere, or of absolutely rotten quality, some even in sound ( there was a counter tenor singing...) and what shook me most:

the raw avi version produced 120 gigabytes of data, a very nice looking picture, and was out of sync in premiere, too.

perhaps because of the high variations of luminance in the cellar, resulting in highly differing datarates in the initial original videos. so i can´t trust the raw avis anymore, and get along good with the movie maker file.

gg

c

Report · Dec 09, 2016

I feel your anguish ezechaja. Unfortunately, you're asking a software company to handle a HARDWARE problem when they didn't build the hardware. They built the software on an industry standard of FRAMES, and when several of these go missing, while the sound remains you'll lose sync very quickly. This is even worse when you have a long GOP, like in your codec.

Sound and video are both sampled at separate rates, and due to the law of averages, those rates are imperfect in mechanical operation, yielding some degree of inaccuracy on their own. This is why most video is actually output at fractional frame rates (30p is usually 29.97fps progressive). Adding dropped frames in the mix is even more inaccuracy introduced, so it skews even farther.

You couldn't have gotten this done properly with the answers here, by that I mean your settings were off. Apple and their quicktime engine have always had the best engine for this operation (more specifically in Compressor). Early in development, nobody used OIS or EIS, or they used compressor or another high-end transcoder to rebuild the frames that were missing, and made sure they were using tripods etc. Go-Pro and other brands have made such frame drop the standard only recently (the last few years), and Adobe is loathe to change the entirety of the engine to combat thousands of different GOP and drop settings that will slow down the loading process and the startup.

If the quality is that bad, transcode to the same codec, same settings, and use the WAV or RAW audio settings, then have media encoder do a Frame Blend, and set the frame rate properly. It has to be strictly matching. Where the frames are dropped, 3-5 seconds of the video will be broken up and processed extensively to build a blend. It should look ok if you didn't shake the cam. Otherwise, you may have to build your own blend in After Effects. Look it up online.

Report · Dec 14, 2016

I've skimmed through this topic and while I may have missed some things, I'm force to disagree with several arguments made here.

1) VFR has become more popular, not less over the years since this topic started. It IS relevant.

2) There are plenty of times where even the most high end professional will need to edit with the lowest common denominator. Not that we mix them, but we regularly edit with both 4k footage and footage submitted by a portion of the public recording off their webcams or video conferencing. Just because you don't need to use VFR footage at your job doesn't mean others don't.

3) The argument that you should use "more simple", "consumer" or for lack of a better term, "cheap" editing solutions to work with VFR because your high-end professional editing software (that you pay THOUSANDS of dollars for) can't do it is absurd. Indeed we pay for more features, not less. This is the same argument that was made with DVD authoring software years ago where the most expensive professional products on the market couldn't support most codecs that free software could. It didn't hold up back then either.

4) There's no reason that a company with a structure such as Adobe can't find a support solution. Sorenson Squeeze didn't support VFR to CFR conversiont properly in V9 and prior, and in V10 and on it did. If they can do a code fix, so can Adobe. Even mpeg streamclip could properly support VFR to CFR conversion and that stopped development what, 8 years ago?

5) Adobe seems to implement the things they want to implement when they want to (which is pretty much what was said by the Adobe PR person earlier in the thread). However they totally neglect what the users really want and/or need. It drives me nuts, for example, that the default project format is still DV, and there's no way to change it. Because of our work methods this would, belive it or not, really make our lives so much more simple. People complain about it over and over, and it's really not that hard of a fix and they just don't do it. They would rather implement new and fancy rare-use features than optimize, debug and perfect the features already implemented. The reason is obvious, you can't put "we finally fixed such-and-such" in the new features list without putting egg on your own face.

Don't get me wrong, I love Adobe products, and I find many of their new features useful and appreciate that. I'm not an Adobe hater. I'm just totally Adobe dumbfounded and Adobe frustrated at times.

The bottom line is that this thread has been going on for 3+ years now, and the issue is become more popular than ever, yet they still haven't done anything about it. Let's just agree that it should be implemented if for no other reason than this thread can be closed and everyone can move on.

It's just sad really.

Adobe Community

Variable frame rate video with Premiere Pro

1 Correct answer