Warning: Premiere Pro 2015.3 removes Speedgrade integration and has no backward compatibility

[Seneca_lives]

The latest PPro update (2015.3, updated today) creates project files that can't be read by the latest version of Speedgrade (not updated today or since whenever). It also removes the "Direct Link to Speedgrade" option from its menus. This means, that as of today, Adobe is effectively without a color grading solution.

The new PPro does provide support for Tangent control surfaces - including full customization through the Tangent Mapper application - which is in itself a very good thing. However, this was apparently enough for Adobe to decide that Direct Link and Speedgrade are no longer needed and this is simply not the case.

This leaves any remaining Speedgrade users and colorists in general with very few options:

1. For now, I recommend you reinstall the 2015.2 versions of Premiere/AE/AME through Creative Cloud to finish any current projects - they can exist side by side, at least - but that still means missing out on any new features and compatibility with client files. This is clearly not a sustainable solution. And Premiere versions are linked to After Effects versions, so you'll also lose out there...

2. Use Speedgrade the old-fashioned way, in native mode, using EDLs or exporting DPX. Which was never an ideal solution back in de CS6 days, but the world has moved on even if Speedgrade hasn't, and Speedgrade has no way of dealing with many more recent file formats (MXF being the most prominent). Sad to say this is simply not an option on many projects. Never mind that the roundtrip functionality and flexibility of Direct Link is gone, which was really Speedgrade's biggest selling point.

3. Try to grade in Premiere. Not really an option for serious work: Premiere's Lumetri implementation currently lacks support for layers (other than by clumsily stacking Lumetri effects), grading shadows/midtones/highlights separately as well as setting their ranges, and basic 2-up/3-up/snapshot functionality. I'm sure I can think of many more. Point is, as a color grading application the Lumetri Panel is a joke, a slightly better version of the plug-in effects that amateur colorists used to apply per-clip.

4. Jump ship. I've resisted this for a long time, as it would mean investing in new control surfaces, but Adobe's neglect has gotten to a breaking point. I'd resigned myself to the fact that Speedgrade would continue as a zombie application, never updated and slowly forgotten. Alas, even that was too much to ask.

[R Neil Haugen]

Yup ... agree across the board.

If you've any familiarity with stills work, the Lumetri panel may look very familiar. As the layout was clearly borrowed from Lightroom, and initially (from talking with engineers at NAB back then) when it was started it was seen as a useful tool for the less-professional users who wouldn't find SpeedGrade comprehensible.

As someone who came into this from 30+ years in stills, and with hours upon hours in Lightroom, that's what I wanted to see at first ... but as I became more experienced in video, and learned how to use Sg, well ... that Lr style interface wasn't of interest to me. The Di-Link to Sg was wonderful. Didn't require all that time-consuming technical work of exporting XML,AAF/EDL stuff and conforming issues & such to a grading app.

I've been quite appreciative of the work they've done to improve the Lumetri panel, and that new secondary is a fine implementation. But the removal of the Di-L to Sg caught me by total surprise at this point. I thought they might do it eventually, but ... at this time, this stage of Lumetri's development, huh.

Using a Ripple or the Elements control panels does make it a LOT more usable both for speed and "intuitiveness". I cannot overstress the difference between using Lumetri with a mouse and a surface/control panel.

The lack of ability to do things in layers/nodes within one instance of Lumetri and the lack of any shot-matching capabilities are to me at the moment the biggest drawbacks. Yes, you can "stack" Lumetri instances in the Effects panel ... but after you add one, any previous Lumetri instances can only be controlled via mouse in the Effects Control panel.

Not overly handy. Nor quick.

Neil

[PatBranch]

"If you've any familiarity with stills work, the Lumetri panel may look very familiar. As the layout was clearly borrowed from Lightroom, and initially (from talking with engineers at NAB back then) when it was started it was seen as a useful tool for the less-professional users who wouldn't find SpeedGrade comprehensible.

As someone who came into this from 30+ years in stills, and with hours upon hours in Lightroom, that's what I wanted to see at first ... but as I became more experienced in video, and learned how to use Sg, well ... that Lr style interface wasn't of interest to me. The Di-Link to Sg was wonderful. Didn't require all that time-consuming technical work of exporting XML,AAF/EDL stuff and conforming issues & such to a grading app."

That was basically my experience after years of using Lightroom. Lumetri doesn't cut it for video... Direct link to speedgrade made grading a project simple and so efficient. You could round trip quickly as many times as needed throughout a project without worrying about picture lock and exporting/importing data files. I'm going to try the workaround for the documentary I'm working on. I can't imagine doing the whole thing with fvcking Lumetri. Hopefully this gets put back in. Bug request sent.

[R Neil Haugen]

Understood. Once you've actually gotten used to using a grading app, other tools ... don't seem like tools but toys anymore.

Perhaps the PrPro managers just need to spend three months as a colorist ...  

Neil

[Tranquil_Cosmos157F]

I agree with Neil

Shot-matching ... what a pain. Totally nothing there, other than flipping clip to clip on the timeline. Yuck. To be polite.

And isn't Shot Matching the number one feature one needs when grading?

Also, the way Lumetri handles overbrights is very uncommon, and potentially destroys your footage. I made a video tutorial about the limitations in the Lumetri Color Panel: Limitations in the Lumetri Color Panel – PremierePro.net

[Seneca_lives]

You can jury-rig basic shot-matching into Premiere:

- Use the reference monitor and either gang or un-gang it for a "2-up"-ish experience (except you can't move the reference monitor in the timeline).

- Take snapshots and set them to be imported into a specific bin. Keep the folder open in a separate window and open the stills in the source monitor. This clumsily approaches Speedgrade's snapshot functionality, with something like 8 clicks per frame you want to comapre instead of 1.

- 3-up? Nope, no way.

t helps to have a lot of screen real estate and you'll need to make a custom workspace (because it won't be good for anything except grading and matching). Also, the playback controls take up so much space and clutter everything up, that it's not going to be a great UI experience...

(In other news, it's possible to edit a feature film in After Effects, but I wouldn't recommend that either.)

[Tranquil_Cosmos157F]

I explain how to work with a 3-up display in Premiere in my book The Cool Stuff in Premiere Pro. You can use the Reference Monitor plus the Source Monitor - and load the sequence into your Source Monitor. The chapter on color grading alone is 80 pages long! With the new Open in Timeline feature, you can even have a separate timeline for the Source Monitor.

[R Neil Haugen]

That setup would reguire rather a larger monitor than I've got ... I run a pair of 24 inch monitors. I'd think I'd want at least 30" inch of monitor to do that. Preferably more. And maybe separate scopes.

Neil

[Tranquil_Cosmos157F]

I have one 30 inch and one 24 inch. Works surprisingly well.

[R Neil Haugen]

I've the two 24's, and one is definitely my 'critical' monitor, the other ... definitely the GUI rig for controls. It's worked quite well for both PrPro & Sg up to now, running the UI/controls on the bottom screen and the program/color monitors on the upper.

Really going to Resolve and using a similar setup would require of course out-board boxes to run the critical monitor, and I've thought about that ... but not sprung for it yet. I can run on the setup I've got, but ... not get a full-size view while having full controls available.

Sigh. It may be getting to time that I need to get that 30/32 inch monitor. Cash ... woa.

Neil

[R Neil Haugen]

Watched your tutorial, and have some things you didn't mention ... although it looks like that was with perhaps the 2015.2 Lumetri?

There are several ways to get those overbrights back in other than using secondaries ... and there are differences in how they work.

1) select HDR, then pull the "HDR Specular" slider at the bottom of the Basic tab all the way left ...

2) Select HDR, go to  the Color Wheels tab, use the far-right fourth color wheel's luma slider to pull the speculars back down ...

Using either of the above means of course that the "Creative" tab is grayed-out, unavailable for anything. With the only spot after Basic of using a LUT. Ah well. But once you've got the overbrights down and usable, you can use any controls including the Basic tabs. Depending on probably 100 different relative control settings (literally, from my testing) ... you probably can't push the signal tops past 100 again. Mostly sort of. It depends ...

The other two don't require setting Lumetri to HDR ...

3) Use the Curves tab, and either pull the White (all channel) top down, or pull down the specific colors that are above the 100 line in the scopes to balance the tops out ...

4) Use the Color Wheels tab, far-right highlights Luma slider and pull the tops down below the 100 line, and probably make an adjustment of the color wheel to balance them.

I've come to the conclusion that for neutralization, the first thing I do in coloring no matter what, the best tool in Lumetri is to me also the clunkiest otherwise, the Curves tab. It's a pretty tough tool for fine work, but for quickly matching the bottoms & tops of the signal traces which tends come close to neutralize most of the material I work with, it works.

Prior to starting that, I didn't use the Basic tab much as so many of the controls there were unusable because of the "overbrights" issue. But now, using the Curves tab to start neutralization, I then most often bounce to the Basic tab using the Blacks, Shadow, Highlights, and Whites controls. I've got them mapped on a Ripple so the left dial/ball is set to Exposure on the dial, Blacks to the ball's left-right axis, Contrast to the left-ball up/down axis, Shadows to the right ball's left/right axis, Whites to the right ball's up/down axis.

It's been interesting to see how fast I've learned to move the balls so that I'm adjusting two things at the same time on one ball. I've even begun practicing working two balls at once ... I'll see how well I can handle that. But those Basic tab contrast controls set on the Ripple gives me more contrast control than I'd thought possible in Lumetri.

The middle set, dial/ball? The dial is set for Saturation, the ball left/right to Temperature, the ball up/down set to Tint. THIS works ... amazingly well. This is now my go-to for adjusting color after the coarse control work of the Curves tab

So ... I start with the Curves, then to the Basic tab, and my shot is pretty well neutralized and "clean" for exposure, contrast, and color.

And I haven't even touched the "Color wheels" tab, which has typically been my go-to tool within Lumetri. Or Sg, for that matter. But after neutralizing as above, I've got Color Wheels, Creative, and Secondary available for adjusting that particular clip for best 'feel'.

Now ... after watching your tut, what I'm thinking I'll try next is using the RGB curves BEFORE Lumetri, to start the neutralization ... process. And of course, getting those typical overbrights handled.

That Ripple makes a HUGE difference in the usefulness and speed of working within Lumetri. The elements is also a big tool in PrPro now, as it even can be mapped for a number of basic editing things. Pretty slick.

But  to get any kind of sort of semi-shotmatching going, well ... yea, you'd need your good monitor 30 inches or better ... and a Ripple or Elements ... probably a Wave would work, maybe the Palette thingies ... but external controls/surfaces make a huge difference. Both in speed and in "intuitiveness" of working.

Sliders with a mouse suck ... and clearly tomorrow I'll be working at setting up a custom workspace to see if I can put the three monitors (source, reference, program) on the top monitor, leaving most everything else on the bottom ...

Neil

[Coresmith]

Hi,

Im an ae user. I still use after cc 2013, and have a copy of cc2015. 3 on the same machine. Cant u just use them both simultaneously instead of breaking your teeth? You don't even have to downgrade.

[R Neil Haugen]

I have 2014, 2015.2, and 2015.4 all "up" on my computer. I've left several projects 'back' in 2015.2 so I can color them.

However, for many ... they don't have the option to keep a project in 2015,2 as their clients or colleagues in their post-house are working in 2015.4.

So ... trying to solve this issue for those who have to move forward.

Neil

[R Neil Haugen]

I'm laughing at myself, as ... I cannot for the life of me get the Program monitor to stop taking up my entire second (best quality) monitor. To do as you've suggested, if there was a way I could get Source, Reference, and Program to show on that screen, and the other panels ... timeline, bins, effects & effects controls besides scopes & Lumetri on the other, I'd be rather pleased.

But ... currently ... the only thing that happens on that good monitor is my program monitor. Huh.

Neil

[Seneca_lives]

Very interesting! Will give the book a look if I can find some time...

Wonder if I can make something like this work for my Premiere setup, which is a very non-standard one (2 x 28", 1920x1200 each, for Premiere workspace and 27" UHD monitor for viewing).

[R Neil Haugen]

Looking forward to viewing the tut you put together ... but right now, the Women's long-distance cycling road race way UP and then down that steep course is on ... not time to watch a tutorial ...

Neil

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi Kisiel,

I hope that in future all the tools from speedgrade will be integrated into Pr. Right now, the Lumerati color grading seems little light and limited.

You can file feature requests here. Your feedback is most welcome.

Thanks,
Kevin

[jeremyb22]

the accidental upgrades to files seem total and impossible to avoid--I reverted (though without deleting 2015.3) to the previous version almost immediately, but even project files I haven't touched in months won't open anymore in the previous version, they all say they have been opened in the 2015.3 version and have been updated.  This seems totally unworkable.  anyone else having the same problem?

[Seneca_lives]

I haven't had any issues like this... only thing I can think of in your case is to check the CC app to see if there isn't still an upgrade to 2015.2 you need to perform (reinstalling an older version gives you the x.0 version, not the version you had before going to 2015.3... yet another reason why the numbering is so confusing).

[GrizzlyAK]

Seneca_lives wrote:

While there are some unattractive workarounds (grade in Premiere for "less serious" work, continue using the older versions with manual proxies if needed, export through Sg with EDLs, etc.), the frustrating thing is that you'd have to make this call upfront for each individual project. And then there are situations where there's no simple solution at all - e.g., if a client provides a 2015.3 or newer PPro project file, especially if the source files are MXF. And I'm 99% certain that something like that will be coming my way in the coming year.

Seneca_lives, this is sadly and precisely why I continue to use CS6 in lieu of CC, despite not being 'the latest'. It is predictable, albeit still buggy. I have had the luxury to not have to deal with input from others on later versions at this point, but that is not a long term solution, as you point out. I'm lucky in that I can use an 'older version' I own as long as it works on my current OS (e.g., I'm still using Adobe's GoLive CS3 on Win 7 ), but that's not feasible for many people in collaborative environments, unless you resort to editing project files manually. Unfortunately, resorting to using an 'older version' of CC means that you are still renting an older version. That wouldn't make me happy. I think what drove Adobe to the subscription model is that since CS3 far too many people just didn't see the features added in upgrades (or the problems reported by users) as cost effective. CC fixed that problem, forcing everyone along together for a monthly fee. At least that was the plan.

[CineCicale45]

Has anyone heard anything official from Adobe as to what their plans are for Speedgrade??

I upgraded looking forward to the new features just to learn that I need to roll back for most projects due to this feature loss. I like the lumetri panel for minor touch ups and the new HSL secondary feature is useful, however the current state of Lumetri Panel does not really compete with a dedicated Color Grade software.

[Seneca_lives]

Thanks for contacting Adobe, CineCicale45. No real surprise, was always afraid of that, but I'd assumed the basic functionality would stay at least until Speedgrade had been completely absorbed into Premiere.

[David_V_Clarke]

You can save multiple effect presets.  Just select multiple effects in the effects control window by selecting one, holding ctrl and selecting a second and then choose save preset.

[Seneca_lives]

Thanks, that's helpful to know!

[gjamesmoore]

How is this applicable to this discussion?  And why was it labeled the "Correct Answer"?

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi gjamesmoore,

How is this applicable to this discussion? And why was it labeled the "Correct Answer"?

Good point, and I did not mark this as correct. Either the OP or another moderator did. Since this really isn't a troubleshooting "question" at all. There is no "correct" answer for the OPs statement. I'll turn this question into a discussion then.

Thanks,
Kevin