Why is it so hard to retouch video in premiere pro?

Community Beginner ,
Mar 19, 2022 Mar 19, 2022

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I am a still photographer that is getting into video. I cannot understand why it is so incredibly tedious to retouch video in premiere pro. I am quite surprised that there is not a panel with all the sliders laid out, as their is in lightroom in the develop module. Further, why does Adobe not bring all of the sliders from ligthroom into premiere pro?! I am now often shooting video and stills in the same moments, and am finding it very hard to match video footage to stills when the stills were editing with lightroom sliders such as dehaze that do not appear to exist in premiere pro! Thanks in advance for your help.

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Adobe Community Professional , Mar 19, 2022 Mar 19, 2022
And thought I'd better add something here. I came out of stills, if you note my bio. Long time pro studio photographer, first used Photoshop with a scanner in the late 90's, used Lightroom from public beta 0.8. Been there done that, been nearly a decade in video post now. My basic advice to anyone coming from stills: get over the tools of stills when working with video, just ... do it. Lose all you assumptions, the faster the better. Why? Think about it. Photoshop and Lightroom are both bu...

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 19, 2022 Mar 19, 2022

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Unfortunately not all features are going to be available on all apps. Otherwise we would have one massive app to do everything. I know that Photoshop works with video and perhaps some of the tools that you are mentioning could help there. I'm not a Photoshop guru so I don't know if dehaze is available in Photoshop.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 19, 2022 Mar 19, 2022

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Have you used the Color workspace, that has the Lumetri panel laid out? Doesn't sound like it ...the original 'look' to that was taken from Lightroom.

 

You might check out the workspaces they include. They're all there because they help you do specific things with all the needed panels out, like sound, graphics/captions, color, metalogging ...

 

Neil

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Mentor ,
Mar 19, 2022 Mar 19, 2022

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use premiere's cineon converter effect to dehaze. its 32bpc.

cineon log to log

218

0

1023

1

gamma 5

0

then add a lumetri effect to clean it up

contrast 90

shadows 100

blacks -44

if you have photoshop, its camera raw has the same haze removal effect. create a smart object for the video in it.

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Guide ,
Mar 19, 2022 Mar 19, 2022

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I agree it would be awesome if Premiere Pro had all the filters of Photoshop. That being said Premiere Pro is supposed to be getting a whole new Color Correction systems soon. The Lumetri Color Panel is not that great. It looks like it was designed by Fisher Price when compared to the competition and it uses more system resources than the old color correction filters. I would like to think once a year Premiere Pro would get one new filter and one new transition. Every three months 5 or 6 transitions and filters should get GPU acceleration. Why should we have to request all the transitions and filters get GPU acceleration? That should have been done six years ago regardless if anyone requested it. Adobe needs to start bringing their A-Game ASAP. It is 2022.

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Mentor ,
Mar 19, 2022 Mar 19, 2022

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@Andy 1968 im curious, besides the gui look, what features are you talking about?

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Guide ,
Mar 19, 2022 Mar 19, 2022

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I do not like the fact that all the Lumetri effects are stacked together and you cannot arrange the order. The 3 way color corrector does not have independent saturation controls for each color correction wheel. Don't get me wrong there are some cool filters but the fact that we cannot arrange them ourselves is a big drag.  The Lumetri effects also use more system resources.  

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 20, 2022 Mar 20, 2022

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You can stack lumetri effects though. Just keep doing it iterative.

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Guide ,
Mar 21, 2022 Mar 21, 2022

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Graeme, 

No one stated you cannot apply multiple Lumetri Effects to a video clip. You cannot arrange the order of the effects. I would rather not have them all grouped together. Let me add a three way color correction filter. If I want a bit more control let me add a curves filter. Maybe I want to combine a Faster Color Correction filter and the Curves filter. With the old color correction filters you could stack them as needed. You did not have a panel with six different color correction filters than you may not need. As I stated some of the Lumetri filter are awesome but they should be separate filters/effects that you apply as needed. 

Let me see you make the Three Way Color correction filter the first in the stack and make the Basic Color Correction filter the last in the stack. Can you do that Graeme?

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 21, 2022 Mar 21, 2022

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Andy,

 

No one didn't state you could do it either, that's the point of pointing something like that out. Moot point.

 

You can arrange the order of the effects, simply drag them in the effect controls panel...

 

Yes, yes I can do that Andy. I hope that helps with the above sentence. Simply drag them around in the "Effect Controls" panel. If you really don't like how that works, embed the clip in a new sequence, apply the next effect to that and so forth. No different than precomping in AE.

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 21, 2022 Mar 21, 2022

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None of the Lumetri effects are applied if they controls are "zero'd" . They don't affect playback at all.

 

So you can stack Lumetri effects, use the first one to do say HSL, the second for some curves, the third to use the Basic tab's tonal controls if you want. Adding more Lumetri instances doesn't do any more to affect playback or rendering than if you used all the controls of one instance.

 

So yes, you can easily have a Curves effect first, an HSL key, then do the color wheels, all in that processing order by stacking Lumetri instances.

 

Not as elegant as I'd like ... I'm pushing the staff for the ability to move the tabs around within Lumetri as the "at least ... " option. I'd like it to be more of a menu thing though ... where you can add parts of the Lumetri as you wish. So you have the Lumetri panel 'up', use a curves ... then HSL ... then wheels ... and have only those showing. It would be simpler to see what you're doing and have already done.

 

And further ... I'd love a pic-whip like in Ae. Pull the input with pic-whips on the left side of any tab ... direct output on the right side of any tab. So I could have an HSL tab as the third item, but pulling the image pixels from the say 'native' state before the first operative tab of that instance.

 

Neil

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Guide ,
Mar 21, 2022 Mar 21, 2022

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The Lumteri effects do use more system resources than the older color correction filters/effects.

What good does it do to apply three different Lumetri effects? Applying three Lumetri effects adds three times the clutter. Kind of tacky when compared to the old Color Correction filters. I am concerned with the clutter in the control panel not the order of the effects. I would love for Adobe to just revamp the older color correction filters and let me apply them as needed.

Would anyone want the old Proc Amp filter, the old Three Way Color Corrector, the old Fast Color Corrector and the Old Curves filter all globed together? How would globing them together be better? No other NLE globs six filters together. 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 21, 2022 Mar 21, 2022

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Three times the clutter? Not following that point. I can't see why using the ECP is better than simply navigating the Lumetri panel.

 

And the "what other NLE globs X filters together" ... well, in Resolve, it's called the Color Page. In Premiere it's the Lumetri workspace.

 

Oh ... in Resolve, it's a heck of a lot more than six filters, but ... yea, would love to have that much availble in Premiere.

 

And who besides you ever touches the Proc amp? Seriously, I don't know anyone who uses that thing. Very few that can actually say what it does. And the bad math involved in some of the effects you name ... no, not using them, personally.

 

Neil

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Guide ,
Mar 22, 2022 Mar 22, 2022

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The Pro Amp is the only Color Correction Filter Premiere had 20 years ago. 

I don't mind stacking a motion blur effect on top of a crop filter on top of a curves filter but I do no want the motion blur filter, crop filter and curves filter globbed together and stacked in a set order. I don't like my Color Correction filters stacked in a preset order either.  Who does? You yourself stated you thought the Lumetri Panel should allow the user to arrange the order of the effects. Why are you arguing with me very poorly by mentioning Resolve? Resolve's Color Correction method is not anything like the Lumetri Color Panel. Resolves has tabs for different color correction filters as opposed to Adobe's twirl down or scroll down until you get to the filters you want in the effects control panel. I don't use the Lumetri Color Panel because it uses up to much GUI  real estate when compared to the effects control panel. You do admit Resolve does not make you scroll and twirl to go from the Color Wheels to the RGB Mixer?  If I am only using two Lumetri Effects why can't I stack those two effects together at the top and hide the effects I am not using? I am simply stating things could be better. When you apply two or three Lumetri Color Filters in the Effects Control panel you have more clutter. Adobe should just let us arrange the filters to our liking.  

Having said that I don't like the fact the Resolve makes you go into a separate GUI just for Color Correction. The addition of Fairlight to Resolve was cool but once again you have to go to a separate GUI. I will admit I would rather use the Lumetri Color Panel than a seperate GUI. I will also admit Resolve is very very powerful but at the same time it is overly complex. 






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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 22, 2022 Mar 22, 2022

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You have to go to the Color page to do any color work in Resolve. In Premiere you can either work through the Lumetri panel or the ECP, using Lumetri in a stripped-down view. I don't see a functional difference in working in a color page or color panel. Same diff. It's a workspace.

 

And working the Lumetri controls in the ECP for me is just clunky as all get out, really. The only time I'll go to the ECP while doing color is for setting keyframing. I can tap to move between Lumetri panel/ECP focus with my Elements, slick as all get out.

 

And in Resolve, almost every section of the Color page UI has ... tabs! Yup. Tabs you have to select to get to the right tool/effect. Do you want the Primaries section in the color wheels, bars, or log? They all function a bit differently, they are different tools you need to access via ... tabs.

 

The Curves section ... every curve is on a different tab. Yea, really!

 

So in Resolve you don't get all the tools showing at once, not even freaking close. You have tabs of tools in different panels.

 

Arrayed differently, thankfully there are more tools over there, but it's still a workspace with panels with tabs of tools.

 

The biggest difference in the basic layout of the UI in Premiere is actually that the entire screen isn't part of the Lumetri workspace. Although I suppose we could think of the ECP as the panel that is effectively the node tree of Resolve, especially when using multiple (named) instances of Lumetri to get the stacking of effects done as needed.

 

Neil

 

 

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Guide ,
Mar 24, 2022 Mar 24, 2022

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Neil, 

You had made a reference to Resolve. I think resolves use of tabs is much better than having to scroll down and twirl down when using Premiere Pro Effects Control Panel but then again Resolves requires you to switch to a new GUI. That is the bad part about using Resolve. I do agree with eveyone that resolve is very powerful. You don't like using the ECP put other people do. I don't want to have to switch to a new GUI layout for Color Correction but at the same time I do not want to have to rerange my GUI to compensate for the Lumetri Color Panel. I am sure Adobe will make some changes to the Lumetri Color Panel soon. Will we have all the features of Resolve in the Effects Control Panel of Adobe Premiere Pro? Who knows for Sure? 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 19, 2022 Mar 19, 2022

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And thought I'd better add something here. I came out of stills, if you note my bio. Long time pro studio photographer, first used Photoshop with a scanner in the late 90's, used Lightroom from public beta 0.8. Been there done that, been nearly a decade in video post now.

 

My basic advice to anyone coming from stills: get over the tools of stills when working with video, just ... do it. Lose all you assumptions, the faster the better.

 

Why?

 

Think about it. Photoshop and Lightroom are both built to handle one image at a time. Yea, they can do batches sure, but that's still, what, at most 100 images?

 

In video, we have at the very least 24 images per second for the system to create. Four seconds is past that batch in Photoshop ... and oh, we didn't want to wait a minute for the batch to be processed, we wanted them all processed immediately, right?

 

Not at all the same thing, not even close. The tools are different because the entire system, the process, the processing, is different. And it has to be to work at all.

 

Neil

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Guide ,
Mar 19, 2022 Mar 19, 2022

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Neil,

 

CPUs and GPU sre getting faster. Camera RAW photos at 12 bit 4:4:4 color space will take longer to process than an 8 bit JPEG. 10 bit video is harder to process than 8 bit video. In 2022 photo and video software can take advantage of the GPU and CPU. Just think about of Nvidia's realtime Raytracing not to mention Nvenc and Quick Sync. Who know what the future holds? 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 19, 2022 Mar 19, 2022

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Andy,

 

Been there, done that. Every time the hardware is "upped" the media is also made more 'dense' and demanding. That is NOT going to change. If anything, the camera makers are pushing the media demands faster than the computer hardware is moving to actually process the stuff.

 

Neil

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Guide ,
Mar 19, 2022 Mar 19, 2022

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Who thought Real-time Raytracing would be possible? Quick Sync and Nvenc are both awesome as well. The M1 chips can encode and decode Pro Res. I don't use Pro Res myself nor is Pro Res as popular as H.264/265 but for some people it is worth having. The latest CPUs and GPUs can playback very complex filters and effects in real-time. I can only image what a MS Surface Pro will be capable of in another five years from now. Will we have  halograms five years from now? I will admit that type of technology might exceed what a super computer is capable of. 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 19, 2022 Mar 19, 2022

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And the camera makers are already making 10-bit 422 media in excess of 100Mbps in the H.264/HEVC codec that is so freaking hard to edit with, on a good machine for it.

 

You know they'll push the bitrates up as fast as they can to compete with other cameras. Along with the "k" rate.

 

Just think ... 8K HEVC 422 at 350Mbps ... won't that be a joy to work with? And then of course someone else will add in 444 at 500Mbps ... and on and on ...

 

Neil

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Guide ,
Mar 20, 2022 Mar 20, 2022

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Keep in mind the M1 chip can encode and decode the odd variations of H.264/265 when using FCPX. I am sure Premiere Pro will catch up. I say that because Nvenc and Quick Sync can encode and decode the odd variations of H.264/265. Adobe has not written code for all the odd variations of H.264/265 as of now but things should change soon. Adobe has to bring their A-Game because the competition never rests. 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 21, 2022 Mar 21, 2022

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Retouching video is called color correction/grading.

 

The main difference between photography and video/film is that a photograph is just that, a still image frozen in a particular point in time. With video/film you have 24/25 frames per second with light conditions changing as the camera and/or subject moves.

 

You can do general color correction and be done with it, or spend hours on a single clip adjusting various parts of the moving images with primaries, secondaries and tracking shots (what we typically call color grading). It's all up to you how far you wish (or need) to take this process.

 

Like others have suggested, remember some of the basic knowledge, but also accept that there will be differences in how you approach things. Lumetri Color will never be entirely the same as Lightroom or Photoshop, because of the nature of the beast.

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Guide ,
Mar 21, 2022 Mar 21, 2022

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Richard,

The Lumetri Color Panel can be revamped and made much better. 

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Adobe Community Professional ,
Mar 21, 2022 Mar 21, 2022

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quote

The Lumetri Color Panel can be revamped and made much better. 


By @Andy 1968

 

I suppose future updates will likely address that.

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