Widescreen Footage on external 16:9 monitor always shows up distorted

[Pat_Garret]

Hi there,

can't image that I'm the only one with this question but still could not find any posts regarding this issue.

I'm using Premiere for years now and until totay could not find any solution for the following problem:

Working with widescreen footage (RED,...) and editing it into a 16:9 sequence the video is correctly displayed on my external 16:9-reference monitor connected via Black Magic Ultra Studio Express.

But when opened in the Viewer window, the widescreen clip is always displayed distorted on the external display,

ALLTHOUGH Scale-Down-option within Premiere is activated in Preferences/Playback/Blackmagic Design Setup.

Avid offers the option, to add letterboxes to widesreen clips so that they are displayed correctly on an external 16:9 screen.

Any ideas? Thanks a lot!

Christoph

[salvo34]

probably need more info to guess possible solutions.

I won't ask you to supply specific info items cause it's something you should know already.

I will instead tell you how I'm set up and you can try to figure out what is important.

I have a desktop edit computer with discreet nvidia grapbic card and bm card for hero monitor.

all monitors are external cause it's a desktop.

primary eizo monitor is full HD out of dvi port of nvidia

secondary is hp computer monitor full HD from other dvi port of nvidia

hero is a real video monitor using SDI out of bm card ( full HD )

I shoot 4k ( UHD, 16:9 )

16:9 is called widescreen and there is a MORE WIDE cinema 4k that is NOT 16:9.

My video monitor has a lot of menu options ( one of which is scale )

I always put my 4k stuff into full HD timeline and don't have to use scale.

Why ? duh, cause all my monitors are full hd.

Now, what do you have ???

[Pat_Garret]

Thanks for your reply!

Sorry for not going into detail with my equipment, but I had this issue for years on several setups

so I thought the setup is secondary...

In short:

MacPro2013, Premiere CC2020 -> Blackmagic UltraStudioExpress (Thunderbolt2) -> HDSDI Sony PVM A250 Reference Monitor (16:9)

The problem is, that Premiere (and after testing, also Final Cut Pro X) are not able to send a correctly scaled signal to the blackmagic box while opening it in the VIEWER. The picture within the viewer window itself is shown correctly (for instance 2:4:1) but the external 16:9-monitor gets a distorted signal so that there is no letterbox on the external display.

When the same Footage is editetd into a 1920x1080 timeline there is NO PROBLEM and the clips show up within a letterbox on the external monitor.

Both Avid and Resolve scale the (widescreen) footage down while opening it in the viewer window, so that it is displayed correctly on the external  screen.

So the question is: Does Premiere offer an option for scaled video monitoring while in viewer mode?

Sounds complicated, but it isnt. 😉

Cheers, Chris

[Andy 1968]

There is a solution but first thing is first. BMD products are limited to broadcast and digital cinema frame rates, resolutions and aspect rations. It was not designed for a 1280 X 420 aspect ratio or 4200 X 1800. It can output 8k, 4K and 6K at 16:9.

You can use odd aspect ratios with Premiere Pro but you must create an adjustment layer and crop during export. It is easy. The video below demonstrates how to use the BMD products with odd aspect ratios. That being said you would think Premiere Pro would have some type of aspect ratio correction option.

[salvo34]

that's a lot better info. thanks. Unfortunately someone else will have to chime in on this cause some use mac and many format sources, monitor setups, etc.

I assume you already did the obvious ( uncheck scale in your bm playback settings to let the software do the job instead .... might be the card is trying to fill the hd screen ( opposite of what you want ) ??

I only use cs6 and resolve, and pc with bm card in pci slot of mobo... so I'm no good for you.

[salvo34]

the one thing confusing me a little is the word 'viewer' and then 'external monitor'...I have 3 with only the full image from bm card on hero video monitor. There is no program UI on the video... just vitc and full image. On my primary from nvidia I have a source monitor and a program monitor.  even with calibrated eizo primary those colors and tones are slightly different than the hero, which is why I use the hero.

In your case I get the impression you only have ONE monitor and when you see source footage in the source window it looks one way and when you look at program window that's where you see the distortion...  but like I said, it's just trying to wrap my head around what viewer and external monitor mean vs. what the UI is showing you, etc.

[Pat_Garret]

Thanks a lot for your replies!

The video above unfortunately only deals with the problem when working within a timeline.

But thats not the case! Scope footage put to my HD 16-9-timeline is correctly dsplayed on my reference monitor.

My problem is, that I want to see the Scope footage that I open in the Source / Viewer Window in Premiere Pro

is also correctly displayed on my external reference display (connected via Blackmagic Ultra Studio Express).

You know what I mean?

[Joost van der Hoeven]

Let me summerize:
- all works fine on your computer monitor

- the program output works fine via your BM USE to your reference monitor.

- the Source output does not display correctly on your reference monitor.

Is this correct?

How is your Source output distorted? Since all your footage is 16:9 I don't understand how it distorts on a 16:9 extrenal monitor.

Can you share a photo of what you are seeing?

[Pat_Garret]

Exactly - but the source footage is SCOPE.

[Andy 1968]

I aleady told you the Blackmagic Design products only work with broadcast compliant aspect ratios, frame rates and resolutions. It cannot letter box 21:9 on to a 16:9 monitor correctly. You cannot make use of an adjustment layer with cropping filtes when playing 21:9 aspect ratios in the souce monitor of Premiere Pro. Things will look OK in the source monitor if you output to 21:9 monitor using the BMD products. The BMD products do not compensate for odd aspect ratios. It is that simple.

[Pat_Garret]

Its not the problem of Blackmagic! Avid and Resolve do offer the option to letterbox the footage on output - so my simple question ist, if there is the same possibility within Premiere - regarding the clips opened in the Preview window (NOT project/timeline window).

[Andy 1968]

If you read my other commnets I have stated Avid might do it through software. I wish Premiere Pro had that option but it does not. If you complain they might add that option. How do you think I felt five years ago? I was only a force of one  :  )

That being said could you demonstrate Avid and DR playing back with a proper letter box? If so post it here and post it in the feature request forum. We can only hope Adobe will ad the option.

[salvo34]

I'm still mystified.... when you say your source is scope footage, what do you mean ? I never heard that before....do you have some kind of more descriptive stuff to say what your source footage is ??

[salvo34]

I'm still mystified.... when you say your source is scope footage, what do you mean ? I never heard that before....do you have some kind of more descriptive stuff to say what your source footage is ??

I googled some stuff. Think I got it figured out a little bit.

when you say scope ( or scopie ) you mean cinemascope, or anamorphic, and it's 2.4:1 aspect ratio ( not 16:9 ). That 2.4:1 could include other ratios, like 1.39:1 etc or whatever ...but who cares exactly what you have as source as I am not personally troubled.

An associate ( aquaintance ) was shooting god friended me anamorphic with alexa cameras for the sole purpose of getting the horizontal flare 'look' for artistic reasons ( made popular via some famous star trek director or somthing ). production and cbs didn't want to broadcast letterboxed so post lopped off the sides on export for broadcast. Here's a sample flare barely visible near chin.

With pro cameras there are safety frames ( lines in viewfinder and so on ) for full hd and so on, so you can keep stuff out of frame when lighting and stuff ( lots of stuff just outside of frame you see on TV or movie screen ).  So they just lopped off the sides and no letterbox on TV.

What is the purpose of shooting anamorphic for you ?  It apparently isn't working right so why bother ?

[Pat_Garret]

Many of the common professional cameras (for instance RED) deliver so called widescreen footage, which means that their native aspect ration is not 16:9 but 1:2,39, 1:2,4, etc.

[Andy 1968]

My video demonstrates how to get a letter box effects when using Premiere Pro with 21:9 video on a 16:9 monitor. I highly recommend you watch my video agian becuase  my video was made for someoe just like you. I repeat my video was made for you  :  )

[salvo34]

I don't know why we are going into a black hole... you keep saying 21:9 and I have no clue what that means... never heard of it before. Are you TECH TV ? is it YOUR video you are selling here, and your expertise ??? I don't trust you or like you at this point... cause you are not solving anyone's problems and just keep ranting about YOUR VIDEO.

duh... I don't get it.

goodbye

[Andy 1968]

salvo34

I think you got confused. My comment was for Pat Garret not you. There was no need for you to respond  but since you did don't focus on the 21:9 aspect ratio. That is the aspect ratio I used but the method would be the same for the BMD design products even if it was an odd aspect ratio of 26:7. Does it make sense the second time around?

To add insult to injury I contacted Adobe about this issues many years ago. Are you going to tell me the video below does not adress Pat Garret's issues? It adresss them but it does not offer a solution. My other video does offer a solution. You may be to ingornat to comprehend it but the solution is there.  I admit it is a bit of a work around but it does work.  Avid might compenste for odd aspect ratios through sofware using 3rd party hardware but Premiere Pro does not. That being said Premiere Pro can letter box correctly using the computer monitor but not 3rd party professional broadcast compliant products.

[Warren Heaton]

Hi Pat (or is it Christoph?):

As best as I can tell, you're describing ultra-widescreen, not widescreen.

It also sounds like you're referring to what picture looks like on the Blackmagic device when viewed from the Source tab (calling it Preview or Viewer is using terms from other non-linear video editing software).

Unfortuantely, you only have the options available in the Blackmagic Setup options (as mentioned in your orignal post). 

If you have to use the Blackmagic display rather than directly patching from the display-out of your computer graphics hardware, you'll need to manually letterbox the footage into a frame size that Blackmagic supports for ourput.  A custom proxy frame size with Premiere Pro's Proxy workflow will probably work, but I haven't tested that.  Assuming that it does, you're one click away from your Cinemascope source footage (that distorts) and your letterboxed (that appears correctly).

[Andy 1968]

Warren,

My video show the exact same settings but Pat Garret wants to display odd aspect rations correctly.

Your are correct by saying with Premiere Pro it can be done by using a 16:9 sequence and manualy creating a letter box with adjustment layers. I demostrate this in my video. I also demonstrate the export method which is the second part of the equation. It is a work around but it does work.

[salvo34]

Andy, I wish I was as smart as you are....

This is what I got for hero video 1080 monitor

BM DECKLINK 4K FOR PCI

Video Output Connectors 1 x BNC (6G-SDI)

Output Video Format SDI (10-Bit 4:4:4/4:2:2)
PAL (768 x 576): 50 fps
NTSC: 59.94 fps
720p: 50/59.94/60 fps
1080p: 23.98/24/25/30/50/59.94/60 fps
1080PsF: 23.98/24/25/29.97/30 fps
1080i: 50/59.94/60 fps
UHD 4K: 23.98/24/25/29.97/30 fps
DCI 4K: 23.98/24/25 fps
DCI 2K: 23.98/24/25 fps

does that mean I can't ever edit anamorphic using resolve or Ppro and see letterbox correctly for 2.4:1 ??

[Pat_Garret]

That is my question!

In fact it is possible to scale down the widescreen footage within Avid to get a letterboxed signal out of it. And Resolve automatically provides this process. Only Premiere and Final Cut seem to be unable to send a letterboxed signal when files are opened within Source monitor.

[Andy 1968]

The BMD products to do not letter box and pillar box odd aspect rations. The Avid might do it through software. I wish Premiere Pro had that option. That being said can you post an image of Avid and DR doing a proper letter box?

[Warren Heaton]

It may be worth mentionging that while the camera may have recorded a frame size that your video editing hardware does not support, it's common to "debayer" to a frame size that is supported for editing.  

[salvo34]

SC. 30

INT / DAY

CONTROL TO ROVER

Tight clean single

ROBODOG

                               Houston to Mars Rover, do you read me ?

                   (Static, no response)