Output file size bigger than source

[MARIANCE]

I'm not new at Premiere Pro editing or exporting but this is something I can't deal with and I need some kind of advice or help getting this the right way using AME or some third-party plugin for exporting MP4 files in premiere with more settings or x264 options.

Im editing a video in premiere which the SOURCE clip has this info (using MediaInfo)

SOURCE INFO:

Complete name : ....\2020-09-04 17-23-04.mp4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media
Codec ID : isom (isom/iso2/avc1/mp41)
File size : 1.13 GiB
Duration : 45 min 17 s
Overall bit rate : 3 573 kb/s

And after editing (its just cut, nothing else), I export using AME, both a preset I have and Match Source. And the file ends up being like this:

OUTPUT FILE:

Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID : mp42 (mp42/mp41)
File size : 1.38 GiB
Duration : 44 min 24 s
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 4 452 kb/s

.... Notice how the size its slightly bigger and its duration its shorter, and the bitrate is greater. BUT the thing is that I notice an incredible reduce in quailty in the output version, and If I want to maintain the same quality as the source file I need to increase the bitrate up to 10mbps and the output file size ends up being like 4.5 Gigs and thats almos 4 times bigger than the Source File using THE SAME Encoding settings (the settings that AME and Premiere lets me change, though).

Now, the SOURCE file was recorded using OBS. MP4 VBR @ 15mbps target. But it sometimes went lower than 1 mbps because the footage is mostly dark color and it has letterboxing.

The settings in obs are as follows:

Format: MP4

Encoder: x264

Custom Muxer Settings: None

Rate Control: VBR

Bitrate: 15.000 Kbps

CRF: 18

CPU: veryfast

Profile: high

Tune: filml

x264 options: -level 4

These settings are really good considering file size/quality. But when handled by premiere are trash beacuse it ignores the original settings of the source and renders at another kind of bitrate that makes the file incredibly big than it was.

Anyone knowns if there is any third party plugin or any hidden option in premiere to clone the settings from OBS to Premiere?

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TL;DR: We need more export settings in premiere to avoid bigger-than-source output file size.

[MARIANCE]

ADDING THIS SEPARATELY:

These are the Encoding settings on the source file according to mediainfo:

" Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=1 / deblock=1:-1:-1 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=2 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.15 / mixed_ref=0 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=0 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=18 / lookahead_threads=6 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=10 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=18.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / vbv_maxrate=18000 / vbv_bufsize=18000 / crf_max=0.0 / nal_hrd=none / filler=0 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00 "

These settings ARE NOT in premiere final output.

[Michael Grenadier]

OBS files usually have a variable frame rate and that can be the source of all sorts of problems.  It's hard to predict when it will happen and what will happen.

https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro/faq-issues-with-screen-recorded-footage-in-premiere-pro/...

Use MediaInfo to determine if your source files are variable frame rate

https://mediaarea.net/en/MediaInfo/Download

and if they are (and they probably are) use handbrake to convert to a constant frame rate

https://handbrake.fr

and here's a tutorial on how to use handbrake

[MARIANCE]

Sorry but you didn't even read my post. All the information that you describe is already there. it is Variable Frame Rate, and I DO NOT have any issues with OBS recordings, it's premiere horrible encoding that makes files way bigger and lowers the quality.

[Michael Grenadier]

yes I did read your post.  Where does it say variable frame rate?  It does say VARIABLE BIT RATE which is not the same thing.  You may not have issues with variable frame rate files, but Premiere does.    Perhaps if you'd take the time to review the links I sent you, you'd be on the way to solving your problem.     

[MARIANCE]

Variable Frame Rate DOES NOT affect the bitrate or the final quality of the video. And also, this is OBS which is setup to record CONSTANT FRAMERATE

Media info:

"Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 60.000 FPS"

Even if the game is running at 120 fps or 20 fps, obs still records @ 60.

I have never seen OBS going with variable frame rate.

Sorry but, your links are rather useless, I need a way to make premiere encode the file as good as OBS does. and as I stated on the first comment, OBS does have more h264 settings, and Premiere Output does not.

Handbrake takes waaay too much to encode, even in my high end pc. OBS encodes instantly and I rather keep the OBS file since is waaaaay smaller in size than Premiere's, but I need to edit those.

[Jeff Bugbee]

Transcoding is a lossy process. You will always lose quality when you transcode. Yes, upping the bitrate can help (as you've found out).

What are your Premiere export settings? A screenshot of the export window would be great.

[Michael Grenadier]

yes transcoding is a "lossy" process, but this loss is not always visible if you're doing it properly.  And transocding to a format that is a non-mpeg format like one of the high quality flavors of prores will speed up editing and the export process.

to the other post, we've seen many, many people here reporting variable frame rate files from screen recording programs causing problems.  Did you check your files in media-info or are you relying on an OBS preference?   whether or not variable frame rate sources effect the quality, they do effect premiere...  The adobe team is working on this, but in the meantime, just a cursory review of the last months posts here shows how converting files from vbr to cfr solves many, many issues.   

[Ann Bens]

Checking image quality loss:

superimpose exported file over original timeline; set blending mode to Difference.

[MARIANCE]

Well, people ignores main topic and replies... I alreay stated that the videos are NOT variable famerate, they are constant 60FPS. And again, that does not have anything to do with my problem... Im not having issues working with OBS recording in premiere, I'm having issues exporting....

Premiere does not have a lot of options to work with.

[Michael Grenadier]

Well that's a first. AI? We're just trying to help. A cursory review of
posts here over the last few months will show many examples of weird
behavior solved by converting from variable frame rate to constant frame
rate.

[MARIANCE]

HAAHAHA, I dont wanna get into swearing, you are just literally replying without reading... I already said MANY times, it's CONSTANT FRAME RATE. And that doesnt have anything to do with my problem, geez....

[MARIANCE]

These are the only settings Premiere or AME let you change.... as I said... it does not offer more options to work with... It just uses that lossy compression and makes files huge, when OBS encodes at realtime and it makes it 10 times better.
BTW im not transcoding, source is the same as the output.

Your replies looks AI generated... just read what I posted.

[Michael Grenadier]

Please drop a file into media info and do a screen grab of the tree view and then post the results.

then maybe we'll know whether your obs file is constant or variable frame rate.    If your sources are variable frame rate and you're unwilling or unable to convert them to constant frame rate, you'll need to use a different editing program...  

[MARIANCE]

I'm getting mad at these replies... are you guys AIs? I already stated, THEY ARE CONSTANT FRAME RATE, and I repeat, I DO NOT have problems EDITING with Premiere.... god's sake....

[Jeff Bugbee]

@MARIANCE "BTW im not transcoding, source is the same as the output."

While you are not technically transcoding (going from one codec to another), you are still re-encoding H.264 into H.264, which is the same process as transcoding and incurs the same penalty as a transcode. This is not the same as a rewapping or doing a FFMPEG stream copy. You are still re-encoding the file.

If you are only doing simple cuts and not really re-editing, you might want to look into a program like this: https://github.com/mifi/lossless-cut

This software claims to be able to trim files without transcoding/re-encoding, thereby bypassing your quality loss from doing a re-encode. 

(DISCLAIMER: I am not associated with the above software, nor have I used it extensively, other than researching it in an attempt to solve your issue. Use at your own volition).

Please note I solved the puzzle below as well in case you were worried that I am a rogue AI.

[nojo_0105]

thank you so much for this recommendation!, loseless-cut did excatly was I was needing, I dont understand the magic but it cuts the video and mantains the original video quality and the size ratio!, really a program like premiere should be able to do this, in my opinion

[R Neil Haugen]

Premiere is built around creating new files, with all the effects/changes you've done to the file. That is what an NLE does.

That other app is what is at times called a "muxer" ... long-GOP formats are a nightmare due to the basic structure. There is only an actual, complete image (frame) every 9 to more than 100 "frames" of the file. 

In-between are only data sets of 1) pixels that change since the last iframe or 2) pixels that change before the next iframe or 3) BOTH.

To be able to play it, the app has to find those complete iframes, decompress and store to RAM/cache, then re-create all the inbetween frames from the stored frames and datasets.

So you can' simply "cut" it at any particular "frame" as you don't have the information necessary to build those frames.

A "muxer" works by creating new iframes at the spot you want to cut. Which is a lot more of a specialized job than you might think, which is why muxers are very ...  limited use ... tools.

[Christian.Z]

so, are you comparing Premiere and OBS? or is the source file coming from OBS?