DECAL IN STAGER, TERRIBLE!

[Giovanni5C04]

Goodmorning everyone!
If it can be useful, I confirm that the stager render, with the imported textures applied, is useless! I enclose example, same texture used in size and stager with the same model, first imported in ai format then in jpg format. In the screens you also see the render settings. Remembering that it is ridiculous that those who invest in an M1 MAX with 64gb do not have the possibility to use GPUs. I'll switch to blender!

[AlanGilbertson]

This is a major issue with 1.1.1 on Windows, too, so it's not confined to M1 and not to CPUs in general. (I say 1.1.1 because that's when I collided with it, but it's there in 1.1.0 too, based on a quick test.)

The problem is visible in all its ugly glory on two different machines here, running different Nvidia cards with different driver versions. Vector file or high-res raster don't behave differently. Each is a slightly different flavor of ugly, but neither is usable for any commercial or artistic purpose. I have submitted logs, examples, and "how to reproduce" info to the team, and I hope you have too. Any way you slice it, this is still a version 1.x project and needs all the help it can get.

FWIW, it looks like Stager is pulling in the thumbnail of the decal image or vector instead of the full resolution, because it gets to the point where text is so broken that it's unreadable. The situation is not significantly better applying graphics via UV maps (I tried), so it's not limited to decals.

[DavidLloydImageworks]

I am with you.

I cannot, for the life of me, get decent decal resolution out of stager. I have tried all the tricks that we figured out in Dimensions and it all looks like crap. One of the main uses for me with Stager was to mock up wine labels on bottles for clients and after paying a year on stager, I always have to go back to Dimensions because the decals look so low resolution, even though they are definitely high res files.

I desperately want the stager team to pull this out, but I am an independent creator, like many of us and I can't afford to spend this kind of money for only frustration and lost hours that I can't bill for. 

[AlanGilbertson]

Perhaps @JMathews will jump in with an update. This isn't a minor issue that can be deferred until a new dot release is ready. It goes to the heart of why Stager exists at all.

[Erik27303813sfpq]

Alan, I know this is an old thread... I am still having major issues with labels. Any news about a real fix?

[AlanGilbertson]

Hi Erik. I've not heard anything since the September post from @JMathews in September. I've also not had problems with it using those guidelines. It's especially important with vectors out of Illustrator. If Ai thinks an item is 10 cm square, and the surface it's going onto in Stager is 100 cm square, it's going to look awful. Match the scales and it's pristine. The other approach, of course, is to apply all the graphics in Painter and use Stager only for actually staging the object. Painter is a very mature product and much more robust.

[Erik27303813sfpq]

Thanks, Alan. I suppose it is time that I acquaint myself with Painter. Looks like a steeper learning curve than Stager. I just want to be sure that the tools I'm using working for me every time I need them. Perhaps Painter is the ticket I've been missing. - erik

[AlanGilbertson]

I'm not sure that Painter is a steeper learning curve. It's a different learning curve, certainly, but nothing like the climb I had to grasp the basics of 3D in the first place. It took four tries over two years before I broke through and could start to use Dimension productively. For a successful designer, workflow coach, and writer of learned articles about Adobe design software who has always been a fast learner, that was a humbling (not to say humiliating!) experience. If you know Photoshop reasonably well and you're at least somewhat comfortable in the 3D regime, Painter is not nearly as much of a stretch: there's no big paradigm shift involved and you already understand all the basic concepts. The roller-skate tutorial is a great place to start.

[Carol28673945tl04]

I thought I was the only one experiencing issues! So frustrating!!! Decals for labels just don't work:(

[Animation Guy]

This problem has been going on for 2 years. There is NO fix from Adobe. There is no response from Adobe.   Many have just given up on the program, even people on YouTube who were teaching Stager had abondoned the program.  I also abandoned it. I'm now using Cinema 4D.  Want decals that work ? Use painter. That is the #1 program people are using to go with C4D.  Going from C4D to Painter and back is so fluid. Even Modeler is disappearing , no new tutorials from Adobe in a LONG time, and you will have a heck of a hard time finding anyone even doing tutorials on it now.  I have this feeling that both Stager and Modeler are going to just fade away.  Painter is amazing, so is C4D. It's just the way to go. I just couldn't afford to waste anymore time with Stager. Let's be honest, Stager is a new program and the lack of options make it look like something you should be using for free. It just lacks that magic of other Adobe programs.  ** BOTTOM line - everyone has their own opinions, and if you still love Stager and want to invest time in it, then that's great.  I just did a YouTube search, and checked Adobe's official channel that has Stager tutorials, - the last one posted was a whopping 10 MONTHS ago. If that doesn't tell you something I don't know what will.  The last thing - there were specific people who are on YouTube that work for Adobe, and they have ceased all tutorials on Stager.  For me ? - that's enough to say I made the correct choice moving over to C4D.   Adobe makes brilliant programs, but Stager and Modeler just aren't part of that elite group.  It's sad, but that's the reality of it.  Do you own research and decide for yourself.

[Carol28673945tl04]

Wow I appreciate your reply! I'm definetly late to the party and trying to learn my way into Substance apps to use with our packaging workflows...I normally use Esko Studio but that can be so glitchy too! I ended up rendering the label / 3D model with Esko...but I really hope Adobe gets their act together and gives us better/simpler solutions for packaging...that also have good/vector resolution...a girl can dream! 

[AlanGilbertson]

@Carol28673945tl04 Check out Fantastic Fold, which has good workflow integration with Illustrator (SVG, for die lines) and Photoshop (PNG, for graphics). From there you can export both video animation (of the folding process) and a 3D model for import into Stager/Painter/Blender/etc.

It's a private beta, but you can sign up easily from the home page and contribute to the ongoing discussions and suggestions.

[Carol28673945tl04]

Thanks Alan! I'm aware of project Fantastic Fold (I have been anxiously hoping they bring this feature since it was announced in Sneaks during AdobeMax 2018!) I have tried joining their Beta program several times but I get these messages:

and it doesn't take me anywhere...I don't know how to access the program or discussions

 

[DavidLloydImageworks]

Hey Carol, This might not be your experience at all, but I found that Fantactic Fold would just look like it was loading forever once you logged into your CC account at this address:  https://www.fantasticfold.com/ in safari. Once I opened it in chrome, it worked like a champ.

[AlanGilbertson]

I can confirm that it also works fine in Edge and Firefox. Should be good in Opera (Chromium engine), but I've not tested.

[charliedixon]

I had to deal with the exact same issue, extremely annoying. 

I'll probably cancel my subscription soon if a big update doesnt come out.

I also purchased the highest spec M1 Max machine 😞

[defaultic4t24zqzmng]

I am encountering the same issue with my PNG and AI files. Is there a compression setting we're mising somewhere that is causing this? This is core functionality that needs to be fixed quickly- we have designers counting on this.

Even at Ultra settings and even after a full render these decals are badly pixelated. (NVIDIA A5000 Win 10) 

[AlanGilbertson]

Be sure to collect your log files and submit with a description and a screen grab or two to substance3D-bugs@adobe.com. The more reports the engineers get from different systems the more likely they are to be able to find and fix the problem.

[AlanGilbertson]

Just to let everyone know, I have learned that the Stager team is aware of this problem and they are working on a fix. In other words, "Hang in there, help is on the way." The team has been pushing through a period of very high workload (a sprint, maybe?), so it seems there's a lot more in the works. No information about what that is, however.

[skillful_Flamingo16B7]

This has been happening to me as well. I thought it was the render settings at first, but the viewport shows the same sort of median-blur like degradation on details, especially noticable on type.

[Alexandre Becquet]

Hello, there is an update for St in 1.1.2 and on my side on MacPro intel, all seems to be ok, what about your work?

[skillful_Flamingo16B7]

I posted this on the other discussion thread re the similar issue:

Re: DECAL IN STAGER, TERRIBLE!

"Try not adding your image file as the base color of an edited material like the default material VS a simple fill or decal material."

[gaultvincent]

Hey, We are aware of the problem. The root cause is that we don’t yet support direct rendering of vector art, and we don’t yet support multiple UV sets. Consequently, right now, we must rasterize (“bake”) decals onto the base texture(s). We plan to add support for multiple UV sets, which will allow to layer decals of a different resolution than that of the base texture. We are also exploring direct rendering of vector art. Both projects are time-consuming to implement: the first one because we must support CPU and GPU rendering without degrading performance; the second one because it’s a new technology that requires applications to integrate a complex pipeline. In the meantime, increasing the resolution of the base texture should help.

[skillful_Flamingo16B7]

FYI: This was happening even if I used a PSD image w/rasterized vector data for the materials.

[AlanGilbertson]

Thanks, Vinny. I can't emphasize enough how critical this is. It undermines the reason Stager exists.

Resolution, as defined in the Stager glossary, is pixel density. However, "pixel density" is not defined (ppi? if so, ppi of what?). I've lost count of the number of times I've helped people understand what resolution is, but in this context I can't tell what definition is in use so I don't how one goes about "increasing the resolution of a base texture." One does not simply walk into Mordor.

For small objects (e.g., the piggy bank in the illustration attached), vector text added to the UVs in Photoshop renders  out acceptably from Stager. It seems that once the object size exceeds a certain threshold Stager can't cope. In the screen snip below, the object face to which the decal is applied is 20" x 4.67" in Stager dimensions. The decal image is a png. Whether the image is 4,320px wide or 36,000px wide or anywhere between, the result is visually the same. Illustrator has limits to how large an image it can output.

My experience has been that it doesn't matter whether artwork is applied as a decal, a fill, or added to an exported UV, the result is equally unusable.