DECAL IN STAGER, TERRIBLE!

[Giovanni5C04]

Goodmorning everyone!
If it can be useful, I confirm that the stager render, with the imported textures applied, is useless! I enclose example, same texture used in size and stager with the same model, first imported in ai format then in jpg format. In the screens you also see the render settings. Remembering that it is ridiculous that those who invest in an M1 MAX with 64gb do not have the possibility to use GPUs. I'll switch to blender!

[AlanGilbertson]

This is a major issue with 1.1.1 on Windows, too, so it's not confined to M1 and not to CPUs in general. (I say 1.1.1 because that's when I collided with it, but it's there in 1.1.0 too, based on a quick test.)

The problem is visible in all its ugly glory on two different machines here, running different Nvidia cards with different driver versions. Vector file or high-res raster don't behave differently. Each is a slightly different flavor of ugly, but neither is usable for any commercial or artistic purpose. I have submitted logs, examples, and "how to reproduce" info to the team, and I hope you have too. Any way you slice it, this is still a version 1.x project and needs all the help it can get.

FWIW, it looks like Stager is pulling in the thumbnail of the decal image or vector instead of the full resolution, because it gets to the point where text is so broken that it's unreadable. The situation is not significantly better applying graphics via UV maps (I tried), so it's not limited to decals.

[DavidLloydImageworks]

I am with you.

I cannot, for the life of me, get decent decal resolution out of stager. I have tried all the tricks that we figured out in Dimensions and it all looks like crap. One of the main uses for me with Stager was to mock up wine labels on bottles for clients and after paying a year on stager, I always have to go back to Dimensions because the decals look so low resolution, even though they are definitely high res files.

I desperately want the stager team to pull this out, but I am an independent creator, like many of us and I can't afford to spend this kind of money for only frustration and lost hours that I can't bill for. 

[AlanGilbertson]

Perhaps @JMathews will jump in with an update. This isn't a minor issue that can be deferred until a new dot release is ready. It goes to the heart of why Stager exists at all.

[charliedixon]

I had to deal with the exact same issue, extremely annoying. 

I'll probably cancel my subscription soon if a big update doesnt come out.

I also purchased the highest spec M1 Max machine 😞

[defaultic4t24zqzmng]

I am encountering the same issue with my PNG and AI files. Is there a compression setting we're mising somewhere that is causing this? This is core functionality that needs to be fixed quickly- we have designers counting on this.

Even at Ultra settings and even after a full render these decals are badly pixelated. (NVIDIA A5000 Win 10) 

[AlanGilbertson]

Be sure to collect your log files and submit with a description and a screen grab or two to substance3D-bugs@adobe.com. The more reports the engineers get from different systems the more likely they are to be able to find and fix the problem.

[AlanGilbertson]

Just to let everyone know, I have learned that the Stager team is aware of this problem and they are working on a fix. In other words, "Hang in there, help is on the way." The team has been pushing through a period of very high workload (a sprint, maybe?), so it seems there's a lot more in the works. No information about what that is, however.

[AJGoddard]

This has been happening to me as well. I thought it was the render settings at first, but the viewport shows the same sort of median-blur like degradation on details, especially noticable on type.

[Alexandre Becquet]

Hello, there is an update for St in 1.1.2 and on my side on MacPro intel, all seems to be ok, what about your work?

[AJGoddard]

I posted this on the other discussion thread re the similar issue:

Re: DECAL IN STAGER, TERRIBLE!

"Try not adding your image file as the base color of an edited material like the default material VS a simple fill or decal material."

[gaultvincent]

Hey, We are aware of the problem. The root cause is that we don’t yet support direct rendering of vector art, and we don’t yet support multiple UV sets. Consequently, right now, we must rasterize (“bake”) decals onto the base texture(s). We plan to add support for multiple UV sets, which will allow to layer decals of a different resolution than that of the base texture. We are also exploring direct rendering of vector art. Both projects are time-consuming to implement: the first one because we must support CPU and GPU rendering without degrading performance; the second one because it’s a new technology that requires applications to integrate a complex pipeline. In the meantime, increasing the resolution of the base texture should help.

[AJGoddard]

FYI: This was happening even if I used a PSD image w/rasterized vector data for the materials.

[AlanGilbertson]

Thanks, Vinny. I can't emphasize enough how critical this is. It undermines the reason Stager exists.

Resolution, as defined in the Stager glossary, is pixel density. However, "pixel density" is not defined (ppi? if so, ppi of what?). I've lost count of the number of times I've helped people understand what resolution is, but in this context I can't tell what definition is in use so I don't how one goes about "increasing the resolution of a base texture." One does not simply walk into Mordor.

For small objects (e.g., the piggy bank in the illustration attached), vector text added to the UVs in Photoshop renders  out acceptably from Stager. It seems that once the object size exceeds a certain threshold Stager can't cope. In the screen snip below, the object face to which the decal is applied is 20" x 4.67" in Stager dimensions. The decal image is a png. Whether the image is 4,320px wide or 36,000px wide or anywhere between, the result is visually the same. Illustrator has limits to how large an image it can output.

My experience has been that it doesn't matter whether artwork is applied as a decal, a fill, or added to an exported UV, the result is equally unusable.

[AJGoddard]

Alan, I get two different results depending on how I apply a hi-res (4K) raster image:

A) Placing an image on a model as a graphic (pixelated)

or

B) Adding an image as the base color of a material (much less pixelated)
Please see the attached.

[AlanGilbertson]

A image-based material and a placed graphic are very different things, unfortunately. The problem is with placed graphics.

[Chicago_Guy1980]

@AJGoddard thank you so much for this suggestion! I did not think of this at first but this is defiantly the way to solve this issue. I also found that if I exported my png at 600 DPI it also made a difference.  

[Davidbb2c]

Any update about this issue? 

[charged]

I was doing this kind of thing in Dimension for a while with no problem. Saw all the features of Stager and paid for a subscription. My work is in branding, and I cannot use the software (Stager) I bought for the job I do, as all branding on objects looks jagged and crunchy. I just tried replicating the scene I'm having issues with in Dimension which is included free with my CC subscription, and it renders out perfectly smooth and crisp. Not sure why I'm paying for Stager exactly? My advice to anyone here is just to go back to Dimension if you need to rescue your project. At this point, I feel like I'm paying for beta software with Stager.

[DavidLloydImageworks]

I absolutly agree with this take. My work is in branding as well and I bought the substance package based on the client work that I was able to do with Dimension. I was under the impression that stager was the Dimension 2.0 that we had been waiting for and Painter, etc. seemed like great compliments. I have spent uncountable wasted hours trying to get the same results as I had in Dimension and have not been able to finished one project without returning angrily to dimension to hack it out. I also feel that Stager is a public Beta that I paid $550 believing that I would be able to recoup my investment, but in fact I have spent thousands of dollars in unbillable hours trying to make it work through crashes, never-ending renders, low res decals, and more. 

I was really sold on the promise of the Stager and really want to believe in the Stager team, but I am 9 months into my very expensive year Substance contract without anything to show for it but headaches and major unbillable hours and unless they are able to fix the Stager problems AND give me a free year for the beta work I have done, I will be looking elsewhere. I really feel like adobe managment was extrordinarily greedy to sell Stager in the state that it was when released.  Shareholders may be appeased for now, but Adobe is only hurting themselves in the long run.

[johanng29988715]

Hello. I'm having an ongoing issue with how Adobe Substance Stager is rendering out objects with hi-resolution UV maps. The image below captures what is occuring between Adobe Dimensions and Adobe Substance Stager. The exact same file that was created and used in Dimensions is opened in Stager and when both are rendered Stager is rendering far poorly compared to Dimensions. Again this is the same UV artwork and same resolution. Even tried to recreate it from scratch in Stager and still the UV artwork is appearing as if it was low res. Please advise. Thank you. 

 

[AlanGilbertson]

This is an issue that several people have reported, including me. You can find the thread here. So far, there is no response from the Stager team. You can help this along by reporting the issue in an email to substance3d-bugs@adobe.com and attaching your Stager logs.

[AJGoddard]

I am experiencing the same and have tried everything.

I thought this possibly had something to do w/trial version(s) but I cannot find anything documenting that kind of limitation.

[AJGoddard]

Try not adding your image file as the base color of an edited material like the default material VS a simple fill or decal material.

[Alexandre Becquet]

Hello, Dimension & Stager are very similar in appearance but in fact quite different behind. The engine rendering is very different. In stager it's a new engine, Mercury, but instead to start a long explanation this is the link to compare Dn & St.

https://substance3d.adobe.com/dimension-stager-faq/

Yes if something goes wrong report it en share with us, the 3D Substance team and more. I don't think the trial version can be an explanation. Can share with us a screenshot of the render settings in stager?