A message to Adobe.

Report · Jun 06, 2009

A message to Adobe.

Yes this includes all the people working on the forum, that would be JC to zeno, as well as all the Adobe suits. Personally I have never seen the comments forum so busy and the product forums so slow.

Please Keep in mind that we the users want the best for these forums, we are the people that ultimately use them. For this reason and this reason only we are making lots of noise about the unuseability of these forums. What Adobe had was something that was fast and convenient for the professional to pop in and help or find out information as well as a simple, clean looking layout. Now what we have now is slow and undesirable with a system full of googas that take up precious time and screen space in a professional environment.

We want something that is good for Adobe and the users, and what we have now is not it. As much as you may try and convince yourselves it is. I realize this will fall on deaf ears just like all the other criticism, but I can only hope that one person or suit will actually see this and understand how poorly this new forum reflects on Adobe. Adobe needs to stand out from the rest of the pack not blend into the mediocrity of every other forum without the simple functionality of Webcrossing.

Adobe do the right thing, admit this is wrong and go back.

Report · Jun 06, 2009

Well said Buko.

Report · Jun 06, 2009

Back is almost certainly not possible.

Fixing what we have is possible. (we really are working on it behind the scenes)

And if this forum cannot be fixed, then maybe another alternative needs to be found.

But, I think that that the PowersThatBe are learning some valuable lessons. <wicked_grin>And I've still got a few more lessons for them on optimizing page load times.</wicked_grin>

Your criticisms are not falling on deaf ears. Adobe is listening.

(just, please keep the tantrums to a minimum, or else they get tuned out)

Report · Jun 06, 2009

It was well understood from prior comments that "going back" to WebX was not an option.

But the way Chris just phrased it…

Chris Cox wrote:
Back is almost certainly not possible.
…
And if this forum cannot be fixed, then maybe another alternative needs to be found.

…almost makes it sound like Adobe didn't pay the last WebX bills, or that someone from Adobe did some major damage to someone at WebX.

Report · Jun 06, 2009

Thanks, Chris. I know you've been active on this and others of the forums and it must be even more frustrating to you than to us. The very idea that a public discussion forum would not be able to remember where you had last read a topic and start there makes it impossible to follow long threads. I've pretty much given up, and I know you really can't for the company's good. Keep telling the suits what needs to be done.

Report · Jun 07, 2009

Chris Cox wrote:
Fixing what we have is possible. (we really are working on it behind the scenes)
And if this forum cannot be fixed, then maybe another alternative needs to be found.

Fixing what we have is possible -- IMO based on my experience with "off the shelf" crapware, fixing this massive (and seemingly still growing) list of problems is not likely to happen without a massive re-engineering on the part of Joke. (sorry I meant Jive) But feel free to try.. I could be wrong (anyone wanna take bets?)

And if this forum cannot be fixed, then maybe another alternative needs to be found. -- I just wanted to celebrate and emphasize this masterpiece of sentences. You are truly a wordsmith of amazing intelligence for this. This day will go down in history...

And if this forum cannot be fixed, then maybe another alternative needs to be found. It is a happy day, today!

Report · Jun 07, 2009

Back is almost certainly not possible.

much improvement over "not an option"...

see? progress!

"can't" doesn't always or even often mean "can't" in any given giant corporation.

the smart ones know that "can't" means "if we have to". the dumb ones? (circuit city).

Report · Jun 07, 2009

I think the major objection to WebX is that, while it coped very pretty well with the number of forums that were running on it, adding all the rest – and there are a lot – was just not possible. Add to that the "attraction" of integrating the user to user forums with the community help system and you have the current cockup; compounded by the intransigence (and maybe ignorance) of the suits.

I think the forum team did a fantastic job integrating the old forums, along with their history, into a new format. It's just a pity that the wrong software was picked for the job.

I still think it would be possible to revert the forums that were on WebX to the old system – but that is apparently not an option.

Report · Jun 07, 2009

Just because I tend to push the boundaries a little, does not mean I can't or don't post a serious thread or two as well. If you look at my posts its quite evident whether or not I'm pushing the boundaries to make a point, or if I actually trying to make a serious effort to communicate to the "powers that be".

Yes there seem to be a few folk (Ansury and Jay) who don't seem to to be able to differentiate between serious and pushing boundaries to make a point. As many of you know I'm still the same person who barged in here 8 or 9 years ago. I'm sure I irritate some of you just being here oh well. The bottom line, I want this to work, as coming here is so tedious and we all know the reasons so I won't repeat them.

Chris Cox's comment

if this forum cannot be fixed, then maybe another alternative needs to be found.

is probably the most encouraging thing we have heard to this point. in addition to:

I think that that the Powers That Be are learning some valuable lessons. <wicked_grin>And I've still got a few more lessons for them on optimizing page load times.</wicked_grin>

Thanks for the input Chris.

Report · Jun 07, 2009

Buko. wrote:
Yes there seem to be a few folk (Ansury and Jay) who don't seem to to be able to differentiate between serious and pushing boundaries to make a point.

Hello! Please look to your own posts first. I'm not about to start making apologies here... but please, let's not suddenly get sanctimonious. Maybe that statement should read :

Yes there seem to be a few folk (Ansury, Buko and Jay) who don't seem to to be able to differentiate between serious and pushing boundaries to make a point.

However, the fact does remain that ever since this new Jive based interface and engine has been introduced, the forums are emitting an aroma that is close to stale fish – to put it politely.

They are a joke. And no one senior, i repeat senior, has stepped in to allay our fears, suspicions and doubts. John C is trying to make it work. As is Kanguyen. Chris C steps in sympathetically sometimes, in Adobe mood at others... with hints and smoke and mirrors.

The point remains: No one senior from Adobe has deigned to step in with a definitive answer or at least a definitive indication that the requests and fears of serious and long time users are being addressed.

In light of all the above, who are you kidding? What's serious about this forum? It's just a vent for a few guys who think they're being heard. Come on. Grow up. And, above all, don't get sanctimonious.

JJ

Report · Jun 07, 2009

Look I understand the need to blow off a little steam with this Jived Up mess. But if everything we post is "give me more points" then how are we supposed to be taken seriously. Does this mean I will stop making threads to give out points? Probably not. But please use some common sense when posting in threads that start out with a serious tone instead of degrading every thread into something JC will ultimately ignore.

I'm not saying stop posting just keep in mind, what will make the best impression to help make this better. We need both light hearted threads as well as the serious ones as long as we can differentiate between the two we can make a better point.

Report · Jun 07, 2009

I won't disagree Buko, I guess we've made our point anyway, but I hope you do realize that almost every regular here has at times done the same thing (goofing off in a "serious" thread). Most people don't mind being asked nicely to tone things down a little (which has not yet happened that I can recall), but when it's put rudely or people are singled out unfairly, the desired effect usually isn't so desirable.

Report · Jun 07, 2009

Well I've tried not to be rude although many seem to think I am. A time and place for everything.

Does this mean we should stop complaing?

H E L L N O !

Report · Jun 07, 2009

Well, same here, although I may have sounded harsh in response to someone else's harshness. The only ones I've ever purposefully directed insults to is Jive, with a little bit of "Adobe upper management" for making our Adobe product research this much more difficult. It's particularly annoying for me because the only alternative community resource I have is a stupid Yahoo groups forum, which is terrible. It's not like Photoshop or something that probably has user forums all over the Internet, I can't just "leave" so easily.

Report · Jun 07, 2009

To All:

let's tone it down please!

As the Saying goes You catch a lot more flies with honey than vinegar.

There! I've asked nicely and politely.

Report · Jun 07, 2009

Jive Off! there is nothing to tone down in this thread

Report · Jun 07, 2009

PJ, I have just read again everything I have posted in this thread, and I really do not find anything rude or disrespectful in my words. And, as you can see from my previous post, I'm quite willing to make efforts to tone things down. However, from reading other posts, I see I'm not the only one to be tired of the too many wisecracks we have been getting lately in this forum. And I at least think they do not help in the least to get us any nearer to any solution to the many problems of the new version of these forums...

Report · Jun 07, 2009

Claudio González wrote:
PJ, I have just read again everything I have posted in this thread, and I really do not find anything rude or disrespectful in my words. And, as you can see from my previous post, I'm quite willing to make efforts to tone things down. However, from reading other posts, I see I'm not the only one to be tired of the too many wisecracks we have been getting lately in this forum. And I at least think they do not help in the least to get us any nearer to any solution to the many problems of the new version of these forums...

Ansury in quote I used, said there has no one to seriously ask to tone down the Forum in general. Will I seriously asked to tone it down and got a Resounding Jive-Off! So the attempt failed.

If all the employees That frequent here see is a lot of Cussing or shouting. How are they expected to view the comments. On the other hand if some one try to suggest a possible theory for a problem Or make a suggestion. And its roundly made fun of. Then how's that to be taken also.

I want this sytem to succeed, because it the only game in town now. So I try to make reasoned suggestions, and in a normal tone of voice. I've found in life cussing and shout doesn't do any good. In fact the opposite happens, the person(s) directed to just clam up and get the heck out. Then all that has been accomplished Is raising your blood pressure and adrenalin. Which doesn't improve your health.

Sure I've punched back a time or two, when constantly beat on, you have to defend yourself.

I remember I used to be beat up and bullied when I was in Elementary school, was taught to turn the other cheek. Finially I one day got fed up and unleashed 6-7 years of pentup anger on the next person that picked on me.

It took six neighborhood boys and two parents to get me of the fellow . I was throwing rights and lefts so hard while I was sitting on him I broke his nose and jaw. My hand hurt for days. We became friends after that, the bullying stopped.

Report · Jun 07, 2009

Ansury wrote:
I won't disagree Buko, I guess we've made our point anyway, but I hope you do realize that almost every regular here has at times done the same thing (goofing off in a "serious" thread). Most people don't mind being asked nicely to tone things down a little (which has not yet happened that I can recall), but when it's put rudely or people are singled out unfairly, the desired effect usually isn't so desirable.

Well I asked seriously, and Politely to tone it down.

Didn't help.

Report · Jun 07, 2009

PjonesCET wrote:
Well I asked seriously, and Politely to tone it down.
Didn't help.

Okay, so much for that theory I guess. It's all moot as far as I'm concerned anyway. But I have to admit, telling someone to Jive off is pretty funny.

Report · Jun 07, 2009

Maybe the are just "Jive-Talking"

Report · Jun 07, 2009

Asking creative people to "follow" or be team players, is like herding

cats. I gave up trying a long time ago. LOL

--

Best Regards,

Steve

Report · Jun 07, 2009

S.D.A. wrote:
Asking creative people to "follow" or be team players, is like herding
cats. I gave up trying a long time ago. LOL
--
Best Regards,
Steve

wasn't asking everyone to be team players. Just tone down the criticism, not as much shouting an cussin' .

Any way it was just a suggestion. I didn't expect anything to happen anyway.

Back in the days of Flame wars, everyone was mad at each other replies got more heated. then for some strange reason everone seemed to get along better. Now lately, seem everyone is mad with anyone and everyone. Kind of like the days of the Flamewar days.

Report · Jun 07, 2009

PJ, lately it has been commented frequently over here that most people seem to be a lot more irritable, intolerant and aggressive than normal. This has been at least partially attributed in the media to the world economic crisis initiated in the USA. My impression is that the crisis may be affecting these forums, but that the irritability, intolerance and aggressiveness we are witnessing here are a direct effect of the disastrous changes introduced in the forums.

I also have the impression that Adobe is not in the least willing to revert what was obviously a wrong decision, so it would be reasonable for us to concentrate on trying to help to get the most of what we have. Which does not mean we have to abandon all attempts to try to change this state of affairs; on the contrary. In my opinion, however, irritability, intolerance and aggressiveness are not going to help us to get any nearer to either of these two goals.

Incidentally, I am too lazy, and I don't have the time, to search back through my posts in this forum, but I'm sure I have asked politely several times for more peaceful communications among ourselves. As in your case, it has been useless, and I am not at all confident that we have much hope of succeeding until the forums work smoothly. Fortunately, it's not only the two of us, so I will keep on trying, as I hope you and the others also do.

Report · Jun 07, 2009

I'll continue as much as I can. and as politely as I can.