OK, lots of noise about CC (including from me - not happy!) but I am not seeing anybody making arguments in favour of it. No idea what those arguments would be (unless I were an Adobe executive of course), so I thought I'd start a thread so anybody who wants to express support for Adobe's move can do so...
There is a LONG discussion thread (nearing 600 messages) in a Premiere Pro sub-forum http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1205851 with "some" people saying they like the Cloud, for various reasons
I don't have an exact number (at least one of the messages in that thread has a count) but my "general" impression is "somewhere between" 10-to-20 percent of people posting to that thread like the Cloud
Of course, like any other forum discussion, there are a few people who are VERY vocal about things, and the rest who are not as vehement about the issue... whatever the current issue
Right now there is a lot of discussion... let's see the level and type of discussion in a month... six months... a year... and then we'll know if the Cloud is a success, or if Adobe has to do like Coke had to do with "new Coke" and the return of "Classic Coke"
I started this discussion http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1208496?tstart=0 to see if a compromise between users and Adobe could be reached. So far most of it is bitch, although Noel and I are on similar page with an exit strategy when you drop subscription.
It's a reasonably compromise - I could just-about live with that. It certainly addresses the problem of who owns the content of ones files. I also wondered about the possibility of inexpensive short-term rentals, and a better grading of prices from one package to multiple packages.
But this all feeds back into the complaint aboout Adobe's attitude - if there had been consultation or consideration of the users' needs then these compromises would have been put in place in time for the launch.
Also worth flagging-up: Here in the UK the introductory price is quoted as just under £50/month, whereas in the US it's just under $50/month - that makes it 25% more expensive in the UK. We're used to this from Adobe, but I thought this was meant to be a global cloud solution? Yes, datacentre costs differ blah blah... AWS have same prices for US and UK datacentres so I don't accept such arguments.
Also Many parts of of the world Claudio for example Cloud computing is not available in his country.
They will lose tons of money all over the world from Countries That don't even have Internet access or at best PPP over POTS. Or Access is Taxed ohas fees that preclude most people from having Internet
Curt Y wrote:
I started this discussion http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1208496?tstart=0 to see if a compromise between users and Adobe could be reached. So far most of it is *****, although Noel and I are on similar page with an exit strategy when you drop subscription.
I emailed the link to that idea to firstname.lastname@example.org
Well you asked: "Does anybody like the idea of CC". The short answer is sure. Adobe likes it more than ever. It brings in more revenues though it is not proven yet. This is what they say:
Your favorite tools are about to get even better. Introducing Creative Cloud™ desktop applications, including Adobe® Photoshop® CC and Illustrator® CC. They're the next generation of CS tools. Get hundreds of all-new features. Keep your entire creative world in sync — files, feedback from team members, fonts, settings, and updates. And, as always, your applications live on your desktop, not in a browser and not in the cloud.
Please note when they say "feedback from team members" they also include free support from MVPs on these forums. What will you do without an MVP support? Please note MVP does not mean "Most Valuable Pig"; nor does it mean "Most Valuable Pirate" It means "Most Valuable Participator" who gets to your raw nerve to make you disappear from these forums. We had a guy called Noel Carboni who was a real gent on Photoshop forums and now we have lost him.
We had a guy called Noel Carboni who was a real gent on Photoshop forums and now we have lost him.
Thank you, but I am back, owing to a few tweaks to the forum software that have made it a little better, and my willingness to use a workaround (Compatibility View in IE) now.
I think there is great potential in the Creative Cloud model, for one reason only...
With the prior "perpetual license" model, Adobe's accounting practices forbid them from making any improvements to software that's been released. They simply CAN'T legally add improvements or features to it. It CANNOT work differently.
Now, with a subscription membership model:
I also have hope that the additional dollars coming in each month will enable funding of projects previously deemed "less important", such as someone going back and updating all the old filters to give them the ability to work on deep data (e.g., 16 or 32 bits/channel), or to improve the quality of the results. Even to chase ALL the open bugs out of the system.
It's not obvious to people who haven't been in a corporate high tech development environment, but there ARE disadvantages to the business model Adobe has been following, and this may just be the thing that allows them to move up from that. As a result, the product may become much better.
Call me an optimist...
There are some users (mostly "power-users"), who DO like the CC plan, and many make good points, to support their stand. One, X-platform licensing for a single CC subscription, another is the instant and constant updating.
However, it's probably not for everyone - myself included.
Having owned Adobe software for decades, and using much of that to make a nice living, I have been a big supporter, however do not see any advantages to me, with the CC licensing. For maybe the first time in my life, I am glad that I am old, and now retired, and have a perpetual license for CS 6. That will very likely be the end of the game for me.
Were this 2000, I would likely feel differently, and could possibly justify the new scheme. As it is, I will likely just be locked into a "time warp," and go with what I have now, and let others duke it out.
>very likely be the end of the game for me
Ditto... CS5 Master Collection and Premiere Pro CS6... which, of course, has a major AVCHD bug that "may" be fixed
There is absolutely NO incentive for me to ever start a Cloud subscription
If the PPro CS6 bug is never fixed, I'll just install the PPro CS5.5 that was the basis for the CS6 upgrade
It will be "somewhat" of a hassle to uninstall CS6... but that is what I will do if the bug is never fixed
It would be fine to have something in between the ‘one-app-abo’ and ‘all-apps-abo’. I use InDesign most and like to have the new 64 bit version very much. Would be nice to have something like the ‘Design Standard or Premium’.
I'm no fan of our upgrade path because the CC. My guess is Adobe's shareholders like the idea as do 500,000 subscribers. I think Adobe may fix the file issue everyone is complaining about, but I seriously doubt they will go back to there being upgrades for perpetual license holders. This is probably a done deal for Adobe and no turning back. I'm already looking for alternatives no matter if there is a change to this bad decision. I'm done with Adobe except for Acrobat unless it takes a hike to the CC as well.
There is no alternative to Acrobat unless you are windows user Microsoft has something equivalent but they don't make it for anything but windows.
I Happen to love Adobe Creative Cloud.
I Think it has Been great for me.
Glad you have the deep pockets, and the reliable Internet connection you need to use it. you are but one of a few.
While this does not apply to many, if you use more than 4 Adobe products it is probably a good deal.
Well I use:
Have no use for:
Flash (not Flash Viewer)
Not sure about:
It's only a good deal if you are running a business and making money from it and don't care about owning your software. The only Adobe program I use every day is Acrobat while the other four I use occasionally so a monthly subscription isn't worth it to me. I can't justify another monthly expense for something that isn't earning any income so perpetual licensing works better for me. It's fine that the Cloud works for others since everyone has different situations. Since Adobe took our choices away, it's also fine that the rest of us can seek alternatives.
I'm just adding my use case to the pool.
I am a independent web developer and budding mobile app developer, I do both graphics and the programming, some months I don't need photoshop, some months its mostly photoshop, the problem is the times I only need Photoshop for minutes or hours here and there, to touch up or make creative changes. So, CC is expensive for me, because I'm not a specialist. ROI for CC is low for me, especially during the touch up phase. Perpetual license isn't cheap I know, but I have the peace of mind where I could decide to maybe upgrade once every n versions, or not, or buy Adobe Illustrator next round, there is a kind of peace of mind there, definitely very flexible.
If Adobe wants to push CC, it doesn't bother me whatsoever, but why kill the old licensing model altogether? Adobe has some of the best tools in the industry, with CC, they seem to only care for (I'll say) the central portion of the creative production industry, it does look like a decent arrangment, but the old licensing model solved the commitement problem for people who aren't full time creative production specialists, where they don't need as many of the tools, and only need these tools some of the time.
I do love my Photoshop CS6 and I very much like Adobe Bridge as a image manager, the UI is a bit dense in parts but ... anyway that's off topic.
Fingers crossed for Adobe bringing back the old licensing model, in addition to their push for the CC model.
why kill the old licensing model altogether?
Given the financial accounting model Adobe uses, the "perpetual license" model stifled Adobe's ability to roll out changes to the product. They are not allowed to release anything but critical bugfixes that do not affect the outward functionality of the product.
It's a LEGAL Issue, having to do with the way they state earnings.
Trying to develop a software package where everything's set in stone every year and a half AND develop a package where state-of-the-art features can be rolled out when they're ready is difficult, though most of us would say that it should be possible for a big, professional organization to manage. I don't claim to understand all the subtleties of why the perpetual licensing model can't be maintained simultaneously, because of internal issues or legal issues or whatever - but maybe what we're seeing now is just a stepping stone to something better.
The cloud subscription model appears to allow Adobe to change the way they do releases without restating earnings and taking some kind of big hit on Wall Street.
As usual, the law (and questionable past management decisions) get in the way of doing what makes sense.
The important thiing to keep in mind is that the reasoning behind all this rigamarole is more complicated than you think.
I think the legal issue is a Red Herring. What difference does it make whether you add a new feature or make bug fixes. The reasoning is they want to screw their marks with the least amount of effort and suck as much money out of their marks as possible.
Two things Adobe has done to piss off a lot of people this year with no warning: They turned off the CS2 activation servers and now announced discontinued upgrades for CS6. Last year they misled us into believing that if we upgraded to CS6, we would be eligible for the next upgrade. Next they'll make sure none of our software works anymore without notice. Is anybody else wondering when they're going to start shutting down the activation servers for CS3-5 and maybe 6?
This morning I got a surprise when all of my CS6 software plus Acrobat had de-activated itself and turned into trial versions. Adobe staff gave me responses that had nothing to do with a solution then one of them had the nerve to mark his response as the correct one. I got the feeling that Adobe staff don't want to have anything to do with perpetual license holders because we're history. I'm pretty much over this and am looking for alternatives after the next disaster arrives.
It's even worse. DVD copies that were available have suddenly available from on line sites have suddenly increased in price, or out of stock. Was able to find one at Amazon for $1499 has suddenly increased by $400.00 and no long available from Amazon but from a third party by way of Amazon. Guess that will teach me not post a web link in forum anymore. I checked other sites are either the same price as from Adobe. and even a couple are asking $2200+
Looks Like Adobe has got me by the short hairs and I will have absolutely no Choice but to go CC. Wonder if I can pay Yearly?
I talked with the online chat and they said I could purchase, but it would be download only. And if I had trouble downloading. I could purchase a Backup DVD.
Just order from Adobe's store. They're still available as downloads. That's the way I've been purchasing them for years then backup to DVD's. I always make at least two backups just in case a disc goes bad.
Don't purchase from a reseller because they're probably going to either be blank discs or the serial number is no good. Some of those resellers are thieves.
Click on Buy then select your options.