Inspiring

Answered

How seriously do we take this point system?

Forum|Forum|16 years ago
May 19, 2009
14 replies
19272 views

Seriously, do points matter? Do you want them? Why if so, why, if not? Are points any good? Do points make you feel more secure? Are points pointed and sharp or are they blunt and blunted? Do points encourage you to answer questions or do they discourage you?

Points are not a line... but connecting two pints makes a line... So do points awarded in an answer draw aline and stop all further discussion?

I've been following threads in DW General and AI General. I notice that threads, by and large, stop far sooner than they would have. I put that down to the lack of participants for various reasons and the 'Correct' answer flag. So much knowledge and information is not being shared.

True, a lot of the posts came from the NNTP side... but a lot also came from the web side... these forums are killing all spontaniety.

However, the killers are:

1/ Lack of NNTP

2/ Points

3/ Correct answers

This topic has been closed for replies.

Correct answer Jesseham

I really only watch the Illy forum (and lately this forum as well) but what I've seen is that the rating system really matters for a few (5?) of the regulars over there, who are now posting answers for every single question that comes up. The quality of answers has gone up, but only from those 5 people who are shooting for the leaderboard...

Is it a problem? I don't know. It's decreased the variety of responses, but it's also increased the quality...

Jacob Bugge

Community Expert

Just a summary of some of earlier threads and statements, and a bit of elaboration:

Apart from the fact that any kind of ranking divides forum members, as does the whole appearance, and apart from the possible misleading and the inevitable shallowing of threads, as we warned against, it seems that the points in themselves are repeatedly proven bad in numerous subtle, and less subtle, ways.

In the days of the fair forums, at least in the Illustrator (Windows) forum, there was often an ongoing healthy and innocent sport of giving the answer first, if possible within the minute of the OP, just for the fun of it, and the 30 minute edit option was sometimes used for joking comments/predictions of following posts. Also, it was custom to step back if others had made a good answer that the OP needed elaboration upon, unless you knew from their normal hours that they would not be back for a long time, especially if the OP had a deadline; now, you can only step in on behalf of others at the peril of being punished with their points, and even worse if they actually want them. And there was time for exchanges of knowledge and inspiration, and for friendly banter. All that may be(come) lost, too.

After a considerable effort in this forum, trying to prevent and amend, I have tried to resume my participation in the other forum(s), and to do it in the same way as in the the days of the fair forums.

I suppose we are all dealing with the losses, issues, and annoyances, in different ways. The forums have lost at least one contributor expressly because of the points, and others avoid the unpleasantness of seeing them by simplifying the forum look. I have chosen not to make the new look, and the points, invisible, thus seeing what most forum members see, and hoping to see it all go away.

Here are a few threads about the pointlessness of points:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/1132570#1132570
http://forums.adobe.com/message/1133300#1133300.
http://forums.adobe.com/message/1927404#1927404

And a bit about other losses:

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/294108

Unfortunately, in itself the point giving seems to cause possibly irreversible damage. Recently, I stumbled upon something about behaviour which may be summarized in the Selfishness vs. altruism section here (the day care experience being a real horror story):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Samuel_Bowles_(economist)

Although the points represent intangible wealth, as does karma status mentioned in one of the links above, it sets members apart, and the effect is undoubtedly the same.

So it is something to take really seriously.

But to live with it, we shall have to try not to.

Christian_Davideck

Known Participant

I think all those who dislike the point system can ... safely ignore it. So no problem there, right ?

The advantages are that it gives incentives to find solutions and help others and that threads still awaiting a solution are spotted more easily (and thus have a better chance of being taken care of)
.

A

Anonymous

Christian Davideck wrote:

The advantages are that it gives incentives to find solutions and help others and that threads still awaiting a solution are spotted more easily (and thus have a better chance of being taken care of).

That might be the idea but in these kinds of forums it doesn't work that way.

You really don't have much idea do you?

P

pattyclarke

Known Participant

Thanks Jacob - that's my friend Patty - how odd that she was able to give 3 lots of 'helpful answer' stars instead of two. I don't see the 'punishment' angle though.

Hi I'm Kath's friend Patty and now I'm feeling bad. I came to the forums to ask questions of the experienced people and I received incredible help that I was so grateful for. Now I see my thread referenced from Jacob like I did something wrong. I didn't mark correct answer because Jacob led me to believe that capitalization is an area that is ambiguous so there is more than one correct answer. So obviously I didn't do something right. I marked every response as helpful because it was (except for Ramon's response that wasn't directed at me).

Geeze, if a person asking for help needs to understand the point system, somebody better make it clear to us. I didn't even know I was the one that was supposed to check the helpful or correct answer box until Kath told me that. On another thread when I marked correct, thinking that I could choose helpful or correct as many times as it was responded to, the thread showed as "Answered" and I didn't think that was good. Because if my question shows "Answered" why would anyone waste their time giving their input.

Jacob you helped me tremendously and I feel bad that I don't understand the point system enough to give you the proper praise and gratitude that I feel. And I learned early on back in the "good old days" of the Adobe forums that there isn't really one "correct answer" there are many ways to accomplish a task.

Patty

A

Anonymous

Interesting I just discovered that I'm a participant Now that I have two red bars under my picture. I thought I was participating before but I was wrong. I was just a user.

Jacob Bugge

Community Expert

How serious is it possible to take it when a thread can have 3 stars for helpful answers, all of them given as a punishment for Ramón and myself?

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/434881?decorator=print&displayFullThread=true

A

Anonymous

How come a person can get 10 points for simply pointing out the OP is in the wrong forum, and nothing at the conclusion of a lengthy, technical, trouble-shooting exchange which fixes an obscure problem?

Claudio González

Brainiac

John Joslin wrote:
How come a person can get 10 points for simply pointing out the OP is in the wrong forum, and nothing at the conclusion of a lengthy, technical, trouble-shooting exchange which fixes an obscure problem?

Simply because the original poster is most often the least qualified for evaluating the quality of a response. And newcomers in need of urgent help rarely even notice the buttons.

I am afraid we (all of us, not just JJ and me) have already discussed this matter in length in at least one other thread, and are repeating most of what has already been said.

Michael D Sullivan

Inspiring

I take the point system so seriously that I installed an AdBlock+ script posted by Ramon Castaneda that eliminates all visible references to it. No little red bars either (sometimes).

Ramón G Castañeda

Inspiring

Michael D Sullivan wrote:

…an AdBlock+ script posted by Ramon Castaneda that eliminates all visible references to it. No little red bars either (sometimes).

Sometimes? You should only be seeing the points if you hover over the name of a poster, causing the yellow flag to drop down. I haven't been able to catch that one.

The points in a user's profile page, below his photo, have been quashed in my latest version of the AdblockPlus filter.

A

Anonymous

Points are POINTLESS...

A

Anonymous

serious enough to be one of the main factors that will lead to the downfall of these forums if not corrected. for some, that's very serious...

I take the Points System and the "Community Expert" labels so seriously that I absolutely refuse to contribute anything to the Adobe Product Forums anymore — and I will not do so until both of these obnoxious interferences to intelligent adult discourse have been removed.

I consider both the Points System and the "Community Expert" labels to be a personal affront to all of the rest of us.

I have continued to check in to Forum Comments about once a week to see if matters have improved but the intervals are getting longer and as a result I am rapidly losing interest in both Adobe and their products.

Jacob Bugge

Community Expert

I can only remember having seen anything about points in the Illustrator forum once, when one of the other helpers told the OP that no one cared about them.

I post as I always have, but I miss the richer threads that were in the days of the fair forums, and some good friends.

I may be missing out on some of the strangenesses because I follow fewer threads, owing to the merge between the platforms and, even more, to the increasing number of questions about issues with the latest versions.

J

Jesseham

Inspiring

No, I mean it's increased the quality. People are trying harder for points. It's also helped by the fact that images are so easily incorporated.

J

Jesseham

Inspiring

Oh and sorry to mis-represent myself and get points out of it. I'm not as young as my avatar lets on... My account was borken and split in two. My post count is about 5 times higher in real life.

A

Anonymous

How seriously do we take this point system?

serious enough to be one of the main factors that will lead to the downfall of these forums if not corrected. for some, that's very serious...

J

JessehamCorrect answer

Inspiring

I really only watch the Illy forum (and lately this forum as well) but what I've seen is that the rating system really matters for a few (5?) of the regulars over there, who are now posting answers for every single question that comes up. The quality of answers has gone up, but only from those 5 people who are shooting for the leaderboard...

Is it a problem? I don't know. It's decreased the variety of responses, but it's also increased the quality...

J

JayJhabrixAuthor

Inspiring

Grateful for some links... doesn't sound like the old Illy forum... but sounds a lot like the DW one... ???

A

Anonymous

so has the point system been re...

ah, nevermind. what's the point...

J

Jesseham

Inspiring

Go look at the Illustrator forum. People over there are taking them seriously enough that they are arguing over them!

(can I have the ten?)

J

JayJhabrixAuthor

Inspiring

Jesseham wrote:
Go look at the Illustrator forum. People over there are taking them seriously enough that they are arguing over them!
(can I have the ten?)

Haven't been there for the last couple of days but i don't remember the points being a hassle there? Any links? There was an idiot in the DW forums who was asking for points and slandering folks such as Al Sparber, who went out of his way to help said idiot (just before NNTP was shut off). I guess he got rebuked 'cos he packed his tent and vanished for a while. Back now tho'.... KIssiau or some such name.

PS: Here's five... i'm not feeling generous at the moment

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