Is the point system broken? [Jive is gone, there are no points]

[Steven L. Gotz]

I have always been slightly amused by the point system and the little crosses since I came back to the forums after a few years away.

I imagine that knowing that someone has answered a lot of questions that have been marked as Correct or Helpful could be a handy indicator to someone new to the forums. Like Bill Hunt for example. It isn't the points as much as the percentage of points as a ratio to the number of posts. It indicates that people have often marked his answers as useful.

Well, the other day I noticed that I had reached 996 points and I was about to get a third marker. Try as I might to be nonchalant about it, since the points are not all that important, it still kind of threw me off when I got stalled at 996. I have had two correct answers lately and yet my points no longer increment.

So, is the system broken? Are my points being held up for review for some reason? Or, is there some other reason? I guess I am just curious about it. I keep telling myself it doesn't matter. Yet, what can I say? Pride is just one of those vices that is hard to shake. Throw a little vanity in there and ....

[Claudio_González1]

A behavioud does not need to break any rule to be unethical.

[joe_bloe_premiere]

Very good.

Will the insulting remarks be removed?

I have used the magical "Report" button.

[Claudio_González1]

It depends on whether the mods agree with you in cosidering them insulting. Personally, I wouldn't bet on it.

[joe_bloe_premiere]

I guess we'll see.

You're a child.

You should not be allowed to present yourself as an expert in anything.

[Claudio_González1]

You are not being faithfull to the originals, Nobody has told you that you are a child. And nobody has told you that you should not be allowed to present yourself as an expert in anything ... a truncated sentence anyway.

[joe_bloe_premiere]

Context:

Nobody knows if you are a man, a woman, or a child. While the third seems more and more likely ....

Likely that I am a child?

Insulting, but I guess the arbiters have chosen sides.

[Claudio_González1]

Well, I haven't seen anyone here defending your point of view on this... Maybe the arbiters have chosen sides. After all, aren't all arbiters assumed to choose between two sides, or declare a tie at best?

[Claudio_González1]

Steven Gotz wrote:

...

I realize he can't be banned because of the nature of the beast, but he should not be allowed to present himself as an expert in anything, when he continues to abuse the forum rules.

...

Adding to what Dave said, some most valuable contributors, whose knowledge is still missed in some forums, have been permanently banned on the past; and I see no reason for being more tolerant now.

Steven Gotz wrote:

...
There does not seem to be a way to report abuse on this particular page, or I would have done so.

Yes, there is: the very well disguised "Report" button up there:

[Steven L. Gotz]

... the very well disguised "Report" button up there:

So there is. Hmm. Missed it. Thanks.

Not necessary now, and hopefully I won't need it again.

[joe_bloe_premiere]

Context:

...but he should not be allowed to present himself as an expert in anything, when he continues to abuse the forum rules.

The two have nothing to do with each other...

Forum rules vs. a disparaging comment regarding expertise.

And, I did not abuse Forum rules.  If I had, I feel certain someone

would have pointed out the part of the Forum Guidelines I violated.

I assume that users are free to mark replies to their own threads

as correct or helpful as they see fit.

I also assume that users are free to un-mark replies to their own threads

as correct or helpful as they see fit.

Wrong?

[Dave Merchant]

Some clarification from Jive...

A user's Reputation Points value in Jive is a profile variable but it's recalculated whenever something happens to the user's contributions. It can reduce if:

• A post or a thread in which you have gained points is deleted by a moderator
• A 'helpful' or 'correct' response that originally awarded you points is unset

In your case, both have happened. Your account is in sync with the internal audit tables so you have the correct number of points as far as the database is concerned. As to why you're not on a multiple of 5, as JC says there are routes to  gain or lose individual points but without digging through the entire  database it's not possible to say what you did that got you the extra point. Jive has no problem with values that don't divide by 5 so it's not breaking your tally.

Moderated changes do take a little while to update though, which is why playing about with a 'correct' answer may not immediately show a change in your profile summary. There are some other ways that points can be removed from a user, but they're not used on this site.

[Steven L. Gotz]

OK. So I am back down to 996. Which means that someone must keep deleting threads I have participated in. Perhaps someone is cleaning stuff up? At the exact same rate that I am earning them. Over and over again.

As I said before, I know that I was at 996 for a few days, and I know I got a correct after that.

I suppose we'll just have to wait and see what happens next. The Jive roller coaster in action.

[the_wine_snob]

Steven,

While I appreciate Dave Merchant's explanation, and work on this, I would find it odd that any MOD would Delete a thread, where the OP had awarded a Correct, and/or Helpful answers points already. I suppose that it could happen, but considering the Adobe forums, that you frequent, I cannot imagine Jeff, Jerry.K, Jim, Todd or Kevin Deleting those threads. Just would not seem logical, knowing those MOD's.

Still, such Deletion activity could explain the up/down in your points. Other than Deletion, I cannot think of any other forum activity, that could/would affect your pts. Locking, Moving and Branching should have no affect.

While an Admin. could change the award, given by the OP, and while an OP can "change their mind," I can't imagine that happening with such regularity. I have only observed it a very few times, over many years of Adobe Forum use.

Good luck, and maybe I will keep a closer eye on my pts.

Hunt

[Dave Merchant]

Bill Hunt wrote:
I would find it odd that any MOD would Delete a thread, where the OP had awarded a Correct, and/or Helpful answers points already. 

It happens sometimes but not very often. Aside from a couple of cases where spammers have got as far as being "answered", it's usually down to removal of very old threads and obsolete forum spaces.

Locking, Moving and Branching should have no affect

It can; if the branch separates a reply from the parent question it is no longer able to carry the points, as it's now the child of a new (unanswered) topic. Locking and moving threads has no effect.

While an Admin. could change the award, given by the OP, and while an OP can "change their mind," I can't imagine that happening with such regularity.

It happens a lot. Administrators, hosts and the OP can all reallocate the marks, and we are encouraged to tidy things up so the search results are optimal. We will mark things correct if the OP doesn't bother, and change an allocation if it's plainly wrong - for example a lot of OPs mark their own "Thank you" replies as the Correct one. To pre-empt the suspicions, if we mark our own content as Correct or Helpful we do NOT gain any points.

In Steven's case  his activity logs have been checked, but they're not something to be shared with you guys. All I can say is that his drop in points over the last couple of days was due to edits in the Video Lounge forum.

[the_wine_snob]

Dave,

As always, your clarifications are greatly appreciated. They do show that a few of my assumptions are just incorrect.

Though the logs cannot be shared (understandable), do they indicate the same types of fluctuations that Steven and others have observed?

Appreciated,

Hunt

[Steven L. Gotz]

All I can say is that his drop in points over the last couple of days was due to edits in the Video Lounge forum.

Aha!

Mystery solved!

Well, I have to admit, that it had me going. I really thought the forum software was going nuts.

I don't spend a lot of time looking at my points, but when I mess around with my avatar like I have been doing lately, they just sort of pop out at me..

I don't know that I am clever enough to get even in an appropriate manner. It might take more imagination than I possess to come up with a prank equal to the task. But that doesn't mean I won't think about it now and then, and if the opportunity arises..... Besides, the longer I wait, the better it would be... Right?

[the_wine_snob]

If I were Joe, I would begin sleepig with one eye open.

Hunt

[Adobe_Hacker]

Steven Gotz wrote:

OK. So I am back down to 996. Which means that someone must keep deleting threads I have participated in. Perhaps someone is cleaning stuff up? At the exact same rate that I am earning them. Over and over again.

I am seeing something quite different from what you are seeing.  This is what I am seeing:

The trick of getting more points (if this is what you are after) is to follow what MVPs in Dreamweaver forums do.  they simply reply to all the posts even if it has already been answered or somebody has already replied.  You just need to duplicate the answer and the OP will simply mark it "Helpful" or even "Correct answer".  That is what these MVPs have done and in doing so they have amassed some 30,000 posts each.  There is troubled woman on that forum who replies to each and every post on that forum.  She is the top poster

All you have to do is to copy and paste somebody's answer and change a bit to make it look original.

If points are not important to you (like me) then just cash it up.  Tell Adobe to send you a check or a gift voucher and clear the account so that you can start afresh by creating a new account that will record correct number of points.  Your answers are more important to me and others than some MVP telling me how to do things in Adobe products.  I prefer an ordinary person like you who has written articles and tutorials for Lynda.com.

Thank you and hope you will continue to help us out.

[Guest]

Bill Hunt wrote:

Steven,

It still appears that the total is going up, but then down?

Have no clue, or possible explanation for such behavior.

It is obvious when he give a response that is not helpful points are subtracted. 

[the_wine_snob]

Curt,

That explanation makes more sense, than anything that I can come up with.

Hunt

[Guest]

Yes, I think the point system is broke as it was designed for those that view the forum.  Many do not.  They just get an e-mail sent to them.  Therefore they do not get the edits that come with responses, nor do they see Helpful nor Correct boxes to check.  At least that is the way I think it works as many draw a blank when asked to mark it answered or to check comments as helpful..

[the_wine_snob]

Update: 1081 pts., as of 10:16AM PDT today, Thurs. August 08.

Hunt

[Adobe_Hacker]

Bill Hunt wrote:

Update: 1081 pts., as of 10:16AM PDT today, Thurs. August 08.

Hunt

And this must be after a bottle or two of clean water mixed with ethanol!!!!!!!!

[the_wine_snob]

No, not at that time-o-day. I just wrote down what was presented on Steven's Profile. In this thread, the pts. that I see have gone up and down with strange regularity - floating between about 991 and 1081, often within a few hours.

Hunt

[joe_bloe_premiere]

Dear Steven, my friend from the Lounge.

The point system is not broken.

Your current point level is correct: 996

I will now confess.

As you were approaching your 1,000 point mark (at around 941),

I artificially inflated your points... first all the way up to 1,066

then back and forth until I left it at 996.

Each time you would get a helpful or correct answer,

I would subtract the equivalent point amount from

your artificially inflated total.

I used ancient Video Lounge replies you made to a few of my threads

to initially inflate then incrementally reduce your point total.

A funny, harmless prank?

That was the intent.

Violation of the Forum Guidelines regarding  point gaming?

I don't think so, but I guess we'll see (maybe a new clause).

Maliciously florid?

No personal ill intent, you just happened to be someone I know from

Lounge interaction that was approaching the 1,000 point threshold.

At least I confessed.

I should also add that I agree with Bill.

Your contributions to the Forums have great value,

and they are now properly reflected in your point level.

I hope I have not misjudged your sense of humor.

Cheers!

note:

Please mark this reply as correct.

another note:

I apologize to any and all who spent time head-scratching over this.

It's not what I expected.