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Hi Ozzwoman
On 10/1 a post appeared in the Forum Comments forum asking about an Order approval. Jochem replied to this by advising the user they were in the wrong forum and he even helpfully provided a link to the forum where he felt the question was a better fit. Ten minutes after Jochem replied, Ann chastises him and claims he was abrupt and unfriendly.
I'm not trying to pick a fight, but the link you pointed us to shows (what is to me anyway) a genuine unfriendly and abrupt response. What seems odd is that you apparently felt the OP shouldn't have come back and said the reply to simply "Google it" came off to them as being snobby. After looking at the thread I have to agree with the OP. It felt like a brush off. Like the respondent felt the OP was disrupting things and wasting everyone's time by asking a question. In my opinion, everyone should be entitled to ask a question and receive a helpful reply without fear of being pointed out or chastised.
In my own limited view of the forums I participate in, there have always been (and I suspect there will always be) the constant flow of seemingly inane and simple questions from new users. We all know the forums search is awful. Google is much better. It seems to me that too many of those here are losing sight of the fact that we were all new to the assorted products once. Some of us here talk of "elitism" and suddenly shift gears if a newbee asks what appears to the seasoned user to be a silly question.
I might suggest an alternate explanation for an uptick of "silly questions". In other threads a loss of "true experts" is being bemoaned. Maybe the uptick of "silly questions" is simply a result of an absence of elitist forum members that would otherwise intimidate new users. After all, if a new user is lurking and sees another user ask what seems to some to be a silly question, then watch as they are publicly chastised, they aren't likely to ask whatever question they had, no?
Of course I can't speak for everyone, but as a seasoned forum user that has repeatedly and patiently answered the same "inane newbee questions" over and over and over, once in a while I make my own discoveries while providing answers to the same questions. So sure, the question may seem banal and not worthwhile, but if it actually helps a fellow human, have the forums been a success? To that person they have. Perhaps the answer to that silly question totally made their day. Their week or their month!
We all have to begin as a newbee. Who knows what experts and professionals will result (or not) totally based on something as simple as a courteous (or rude) reply in a silly forum. Like a rock tossed into still waters, you have no way of knowing where the ripples will travel and what may be affected as a result.
Food for thought... Rick 
jochemd wrote:
So who should moderate here? Can you give me some usernames?
Well, i'm not khaziranga, but the first question is, now that you're headhunting... what's the fee? 
Nevermind... why don't you start a thread and see who the users would like? There have been some names – of past moderators who commanded a great deal of respect – mentioned in some threads... At least they seem far more together and balanced than the present lot of moderators who, i doubt, even know what the name / title means or implies. Nice post here on that, kind of drifted away though:
http://forums.adobe.com/message/2278672#2278672
Anyway, you'll do as you see fit... Whether it fits or not! 
Hi John
Indeed he did say:
Get rid of moderators such as you.
That is a general statement and can mean a few different things.
- It may mean that all moderators should be discarded
- It may mean that only moderators with the name Jochem should be discarded
- It may mean that only moderators that practice certain behaviors such as moderating should be discarded
I did preface what I said with the way I interpreted the post. Only Khazi can say whether you were more correct or I was in our interpretations. Of course, as I bear a Community Expert badge near my name I might expect that the only interpretation by some here would be that I intentionally twisted the meaning. Geez
You know, the more I participate here the more I begin to wonder if I may have the whole reasoning behind forums and their usage wrong. I always felt they are intended to be a gathering place where different viewpoints could be discussed and shared. However, it seems that for some reason, in this particular forum, everything is interpreted as being combative and full of back handed insults. At least by some. I'm not sure why that is. It doesn't seem to be that way in any of the other forums.
I guess on some level it's quite simply because Adobe has a Community Expert badge near my name. LOL, perhaps that's why Dorothy has a target as her avatar! After all, it was my reply to Ann that you stated was a "long and rambling homily". Uh, excuse me, but it was a long post from her I was replying to. Yet you never mentioned her initial post as being a long and rambling homily. Then again, perhaps you didn't wish to have her sights aimed at you, and I fully understand that. She seems to be quite bitter and in all my encounters with her, she makes every effort to belittle and insult.
Guess I turned it into a homily, eh? Sorry 'bout that.
Rick
John Joslin wrote:
Most people only come in here to complain about the forums so naturally it is not all sweetness and light.
And, i believe that when they say something positive, their threads get locked as being irrelevant? Or some such? Or am i wrong? 
Hi Buko
I realize I'm on dangerous ground today with offering how *I* might understand and perceive things, but here goes anyway.
If I see the word "Host", I'm likely to consider that the person being referred to is an actual Adobe employee. After all, you aren't likely to "Host" a party in a neighbor's home, no?
If I see the word "Moderator", it's more likely that I will interpret that as meaning the person being referred to may be an actual employee or a volunteer that has been appointed.
Okay, I have my quadruple layers of Nomex on today. Feel free to flame away!
Cheers... Rick
Those with long experience of the WebX forums are used to the term 'host' as someone who may be an employee, but usually isn't. No-one had the title 'Moderator'. I understand that the MM forums had neither - they were obviously immaculately behaved Nevertheless I heard a lot of complaints about those forums, with very many people preferring to use a newsreader.
And 'hosts such as you' couldn't be clearer - it means hosts who either are you or resemble you.
On the other hand 'hosts, such as you' would mean all hosts, 'you' being an example.
Thanks for amusing me!
Ann Shelbourne wrote:
There is something about the smug, sanctimonious, preachy style which you (and several other of your "Community Expert" pals) have adopted that is simply infuriating.
I suppose that by simply acknowedging what cannot be changed and having a positive outlook on things it could be considered smug. If life hands me lemons, I'm gonna say wow! Lemons! Cool! Where's the sugar? Let's make some lemonade! Now, who's bringing the vodka?
I think really that's perhaps the root of the issue here. See, one of the tenants of the Community Experts program is to be helpful and courteous to the forum participants. We tend to view that everyone who posts is genuine and in need of help. Then we try to provide it. Sure, some are angry and some complain about bugs in the software. That's fine but not where we prefer to focus. We provide workarounds. It's unfortunate that a positive attitude infuriates you. But I'm not planning on changing that anytime soon.
Ann Shelbourne wrote:
We never had to suffer from this nonsense in the former ADOBE Forums until you lot arrived and frankly, the input from the lot of you (combined with the ridiculously heavy-handed "Moderating" that has been going on here) is what triggers the response that you are getting to your posts.
Only in this forum. Where we discuss forum issues. You have made it very clear that one of the "issues" with the new Adobe forums is that you have Community Experts participating. So here's an eye opener for you. Sit down and prepare yourself because it will likely be quite a shocker! There have likely been Community Experts among you all along. Likely in the former forums software there was no way to identify that and perhaps now it's in your face a bit because of the badging involved. I suppose you might call it your dirty little secret.
I know you feel the moderating in this, the forum comments forum has been heavy handed. Has it also been occurring in the forums where you hang out? I suspect it has or you wouldn't be complaining. So if that's the case and you feel it is too strict, why aren't you addressing it with the moderator there? Or is the moderator there also Jochem as well so you are dealing with him here?
See, you speak of things gallng you and of elitism. Then you turn around and speak in generalizations that ALL Community Experts are inept and destroying things. The "real experts" have all left the building. You act as if only the Photoshop forum (only one of Adobe's 80+ products) was ever worth visiting. And that, my friend, is what *I* consider being elitist.
Quite simply it galls ME that you appear to like to lump people into general categories that aren't worth your time. Everyone holds equal value. I've had an "inane" question from a newbee teach me things I'd never have learned about the Adobe software I use. Simply because of the way they asked the question that made me think in a new way about it. Things that an expert user would likely scoff at and claim was impossible because they never elected to think of it in that way. I've seen it happen myself.
Ann Shelbourne wrote:
When highly esteemed , experienced and knowledgeable contributors (with a history of helping unstintingly in these Forums since their inception) is banned because he has the temerity to defend himself against the attacks by the spiteful and ignorant and you condone that sort of "Moderating" you have taken your new-found power too far.
Once again you speak in broad generalities. I personally have never banned anyone! Once again you seem incapable of differentiating between a volunteer recognized by Adobe and Adobe Employees themselves.
Sure, we may recommend to Adobe that they review someone we think worthy of banning. But the decision to ban ultiimately is made by Adobe themselves. Only after reviewing things. Based on what I've seen from Adobe, they don't take it lightly and there has to be some serious things done to warrant banning.
I'm guessing here that you are referring once again to Ramón? (do I get extra credit for finding the diacriticals?)
Cheers... Rick
LOL
Ann Shelbourne wrote:
We neither need, nor want, your input.
My input is only in the forum comments area. I've never posted in the forums you are claiming have been destroyed.
Looks like you weren't banned either. You just don't understand that once someone has replied to your post you can't edit it.
Have a happy day... Rick 
Captiv8r wrote:
Hi John
Indeed he did say:
Get rid of moderators such as you.
That is a general statement and can mean a few different things.
- It may mean that all moderators should be discarded
- It may mean that only moderators with the name Jochem should be discarded
- It may mean that only moderators that practice certain behaviors such as moderating should be discarded
I did preface what I said with the way I interpreted the post. Only Khazi can say whether you were more correct or I was in our interpretations. Of course, as I bear a Community Expert badge near my name I might expect that the only interpretation by some here would be that I intentionally twisted the meaning. Geez
You know, the more I participate here the more I begin to wonder if I may have the whole reasoning behind forums and their usage wrong. I always felt they are intended to be a gathering place where different viewpoints could be discussed and shared. However, it seems that for some reason, in this particular forum, everything is interpreted as being combative and full of back handed insults. At least by some. I'm not sure why that is. It doesn't seem to be that way in any of the other forums.
I guess on some level it's quite simply because Adobe has a Community Expert badge near my name. LOL, perhaps that's why Dorothy has a target as her avatar! After all, it was my reply to Ann that you stated was a "long and rambling homily". Uh, excuse me, but it was a long post from her I was replying to. Yet you never mentioned her initial post as being a long and rambling homily. Then again, perhaps you didn't wish to have her sights aimed at you, and I fully understand that. She seems to be quite bitter and in all my encounters with her, she makes every effort to belittle and insult.
Guess I turned it into a homily, eh?
Rick
You're a great one for twisting things... Interpreting, implying and inferring what was never said.
I did say, "Get rid of moderators such as you?" And that means exactly what it says. It does not mean:
- It may mean that all moderators should be discarded
- It may mean that only moderators with the name Jochem should be discarded
- It may mean that only moderators that practice certain behaviors such as moderating should be discarded
So kindly stop twisting statements to your convenience by interpreting, implying and inferring statements and meanings that were never intended.
To quote you, "Geez".
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