No NNTP??? :(

[Harbs.]

I access the forums almost exclusively through Thunderbird. I generally write and respond to posts while I'm not actively connected to the internet. Without good e-mail access, I will not be able to participate in the forums. (at least not the way I do now)

Is there at least going to be decent alternatives?

Signed,
A very unhappy Harbs :(

[D__McCahill]

> But NNTP has no formatting and no attachments

And way too much spam, last time I was there.

[Guest]

Well... they do have attachments... in a way. Have you heard of base64 encoding. That's where news groups get off having pictures and movies in a posting. There are rules. But, it works in a fashion.

That is also a way for viruses to get around.

[Guest]

many large companies (comcast) are dropping support for newsgroups because of misguided lawmakers - ex. ny atty general threatening to sue becuase of child porn, as if that's all that goes on in newsgroups.

[D__McCahill]

And as if newsgroups are the only place that child porn exists.

[Guest]

as if it won't force it underground instead of out in the open where the police can gather evidence and go after posters.

[Guest]

Reminds me of this story, <a href="http://www.chicagobreakingnews.com/2009/03/sheriffs-lawsuit-says-craiglist-largest-source-of-prostitution.html>"Sheriff sues Craigslist as 'largest source' of prostitution"</a>

[_Jim_Strenk_]

Jim, I heartily disagree with you. Having participated at many software application forums that use NNTP, I'm sorry to hear that Adobe's new forum software will no longer allow forum postings using NNTP.

I suspect that the number of full quotation posts will NOT go down appreciably and may in fact increase. I think most of those who usually reply with full quotation simply may not know how to reply without quotation, or were never advised to limit the number of full quotation replies that they post.

Using NNTP, I access many discussion forums simply by reading the posts collected via Outlook Express without making replies. When I do feel moved to reply, I simply send my response. However, on occation I do sometimes reply with full quotation, when it seems appropriate. Removing NNTP access to forums will do little to enforce a reduction in full quotation replies.

Being new to the Adobe Forums, I guess I won't bother asking how to access the forums via NNTP. If the decision were in my hands, I would continue formum access via NNTP. I find NNTP forum access to a valuable tool in keeping up on many, many subjects.

Just my $0.02.

[_Jochem_van_Dieten_]

Let me for once and for all lay all myths with regard to missing features like attachments and message formatting for NNTP to rest. NNTP has exactly the same message format as email (ARPANET mail). Anything you can do in email, formatting, attachments, flowed line width, quoting, etc., you can do in NNTP.
The original RFC for the NNTP message format is RFC 850. The following quote is directly from that RFC:

> Therefore, the
rule is adopted that all USENET news articles must be
formatted as valid ARPANET mail messages, according to the
ARPANET standard RFC 822.

This also means there is no special handling required. You can just grab an NNTP message from the news server queue and drop it in the mail interface inbox and vice versa. And if there are additional requirements with regard to user authentication and spam filtering, just make NNTP read-only. Any NNTP reader that is worth its salt has a 'Reply by email' option so people can read by NNTP and reply by email.

These are all well understood, trivial processes and best practices that have been in place for about 2 decades all over the internet. I find it worrying that Adobe is willing to antagonize a part of its user-base, arguably the users with the answers instead of the questions, while such trivial workarounds are available.

[Guest]

> arguably the users with the answers

Oh no! Not in the Photoshop area anyway.

[D__McCahill]

> Removing NNTP access to forums will do little to enforce a reduction in full quotation replies.

Well, I don't think you can use Outlook Express to answer a web-based forum, so unless the Jive software defaults to quoting all messages, then I suspect that it will result in fewer quoted messages.

(Not that I am opposed in any way to NNTP being continued. But I think Dorothy hit the nail on the head when she suggested that Adobe may want to keep more proprietary control over the forum contents. Publishing to NNTP essential makes the information free to the world.)

[Guest]

Once it's set up and running, you're supposed to be able to fully participate via email. So far it doesn't look as tho email has been turned on yet tho.

That, of course, will not help with quoting... browser based people will have to contend with email users that don't understand the need to snip material.

Which also opens the question of whether email is as easy (or legal?) to redistribute. I'm sure Adobe can put in the TOS that emails from the forum are intended for the recipient only. Then they would have a bit of recourse when/if people use them inappropriately. All relatively speculation, of course... but it would make business sense.

[John_Cornicello_Photo]

Email responses do not include any quoted material unless the person typing the email adds that in manually.

[Guest]

> Publishing to NNTP essential makes the information free to the world.

and heaven forbid any information be free...

[Guest]

>Email responses do not include any quoted material unless the person typing the email adds that in manually.

Wouldn't that depend on what email program they use? I'm assuming they can send back what was sent to them, at the very least. Are you saying that the forum software strips out quoted material from the post it sends and/or can recognize older posted material in what it receives?

[Kath-H]

>Email responses do not include any quoted material unless the person typing the email adds that in manually.

Not so in Mail, at least the way I have it set up. It's a preference. And if I highlight part of a message I receive, and reply, just that part appears as a quote.

Were you making a general statement John, or is this something specific about the way the email system will work in the new forums (when it works)?

[Arnis Gubins]

JC,

Absolute myth about the email autoquoting. As Kath says, it's totally a function of the application and the configuration. With Thunderbird and Eudora, simply hitting the reply quotes everything, or what is highlighted, as the default settings.

Same goes for newsreaders. If the user has been too lazy to change the defaults, then autoquotes abound. I've been using newsreaders for years and never get a stray autoquote going out.

[Guest]

DANG!

I use Entourage (Outlook on the Mac).  Made asking questions and responding fast and easy.  This just bites.

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

jefferisp7 wrote:

I use Entourage (Outlook on the Mac).

Nope.  It's Entourage on the Mac too.

Outlook is a different animal.

[Guest]

I meant Entourage is the version of MS Outlook FOR the Mac....

[Ramón_G_Castañeda]

jefferisp7 wrote:

I meant Entourage is the version of MS Outlook FOR the Mac....

There are (or used to be, at least) Outlook and Outlook Express for the Mac too —in addition to Entourage, which is part of MS Office for the Mac.

[John_Cornicello_Photo]

I'm talking specifically about the forums. It knows what it sent out, and strips that out.

[Guest]

That would be excellent. Baffles me how it would work technically, but as long as it does, I'm happy.