Quark and Corel make a comeback

Report · May 07, 2013

Having purchased and used Adobe products in our creative agencies for almost 20 years, I cannot emphasize how incensed the CC only model makes me. Yes, I know that CS6 is still available, but I guarantee that once the storm over CC has settled that too will go the way of the dinosaur - call me cynical but I have a feeling it has only been retained temporarily to provide the forum staff something to quote in an attempt to appease the rightly infuriated masses.

The creative cloud software and delivery system is buggy and glitchy - just check the other Adobe forums - we cannot have 'downtime' where our software does not or will not function due to logins / incessant updates / accessibility.

The cost for 'leasing' access to the Adobe software is considerably higher in the long run - $X per month forever and never own anything, rather than $X as a one time cost of ownership and a reduced cost upgrade path.

You can guarantee that the price will increase once 'box' versions are no longer available / updated / supported and the masses have been forced to convert. Especially as the longest 'pre-pay' term is currently only 12 months.

Many people do not need all access to all of Adobe's software applications, which is why they offered various versions of the Creative Suite in the first place.

We do not need cloud services, we work with massive files, have multiple backups - and have remote file access where necessary - the last thing we need is CC monopolizing our available bandwidth.

In other words, we will not go the way of the cloud.

Adobe have always made great software, but the CC business model may yet bite back. At one point in time QuarkXpress was No.1 and all but unassailable - and then due to reknowned poor service and an overwhelmingly arrogant attitude to its customers they suffered huge market share losses to InDesign.

History repeating?

Report · Nov 04, 2013

Just based on what I use every day, I'd certainly not want to be without the latest Camera Raw features, and the Photoshop CC sharpening tools are second to none. The fact that more and more things are being reimplemented in GPU programming is nice; saves time...

You may be allergic to subscriptions, I respect that. I'm wondering, though... Do you have a cell phone plan?

Either you need Photoshop or you don't. Why should Adobe care about those who don't?

That said, it's hard to beat the pricing of the Photographer's bundle at $9.99 a month.

-Noel

Report · Nov 04, 2013

That 9.99 is only for new customers and is an "upgrade" pricing requiring that you need to own a PS C3+ version of software to be eligible.

Yes, we all have cell contacts and we can change providers at any time and still keep the features of having a phone.

In comparison, if Adobe was a cell company you could only keep your address book and never be able to call any of them, unless you convert it to a new format - or re-enter them all from scratch.

So that's a great analogy, just didn't go the way you were intending.

Report · Nov 04, 2013

That is a 1 year discount. Everyone seems to forget that about the cc discounts.

Yes I do have a cell phone and pay subscription. Yes there are none subscription plans but their coverage and selection of phones and services are much less. I got a cell phone not for fun but because i needed the mobility because I used to drive a 20-35 miles each way to work in the snow and Im not going to risk dieing in a -20 degree ferenheite snow blizzards with 20+ mile an hour winds as happens in idaho being stuck in the car for who knows how long and risk walking 15 miles to home. If I could I would live without my cell phone. I dont like paying subscription for it as several times more than a land line. Adobe needs to more closes mirror cell phone subscriptions. I down graded my smart phone to a slide semi smart phone that can have internet but we turned that feature off to save money. I can live without paying 20+/month for silly apps at least for now. Until cell phones get a fairly reasonable price for unlimited Internet very little reason for me to have them. If there is wifi ill just use a computer instead of worrying about using my data. I also turned off my cable tv 4 months ago and dont miss it 1 bit surprisingly. We instead do netflix for 8/month instead of like 40/month. Its not subscriptions im allergic to its vast over paying for things I dont need/use. If my wife and i only wanted 12 channels between us both why pay for like 80? ya ya bundle. Why is it peolpe are willing to pay 150 for a phone but not 50 for work tools? Some thing is wrong there.

Love your extended cell phone analogy. Ya your right i can change my phone plan every day if I want with no penalty! If adobe were a phone provider they would have 3 plans. A prepaid phone with unlimited minutes/text/internet but wont be upgraded (cs 6), smart phone with only 1 app, hope you pick the 1 app you cant live with out (cc 20/month) and a smart phone with every app and unlimited everything (cc 50/month). As a phone who really goes for the unlimited message, talk, text, data, gps and every other bell and whistle? O ya on those 2 smart phones as said you cant access any text, address book entry or apps you have on it with out jail breaking it (conveting to 3rd party company) or a continued subscription. O snap that analogy turned against you.

Im sorry photographers and web designers are forced the most into cc to need upto date software. Im sorry for you. You mean 20/month after 1 year and you will still need to upgrade lightroom i belive in the future. Its unclear how long lightroom will stay off of cc. I give it no more than 1 year.. Adobe is giving no long term discounts to anyone which is just dishonest since they have always done that. You upgrade cs 5->6 and get permanent discount with permanent perpetual licence.

Report · Nov 04, 2013

MyCoalescence wrote:
That is a 1 year discount. Everyone seems to forget that about the cc discounts.

Wrong. While no one can say what Adobe will do with future pricing, there's no built in increase to double the price after one year with that plan.

And yes, you have to have a license for Photoshop CS3 or newer to qualify. If you don't have that, then you're likely not one of the folks I mentioned who needs Photoshop. There are, as has been discussed, lesser programs available.

Just so there's no confusion, I'm talking about this: https://creative.adobe.com/plans/offer/photoshop+lightroom

-Noel

Report · Nov 05, 2013

Please reference where it says adobe will "lock in" your photoshop special price for more than a introduction year, upgrade price or student price for cc. If that price is permanent or has a permanent discount % I would be interested to pay 10/month for photoshop or 30/month for student price for master collection.

Renewal

After the first 12 months, we will automatically renew your contract based on the current price of the offering.

http://www.adobe.com/store/en_us/popup/offer/ccm_photoshop_app_offer.html

This is from the legal information of the page you provided. Looks like adobe has the price for 1 year contract then will put you back to the "current" price of the product you are subscribing to. This means 1st year 9.99/month for photo shop and lightroom package then 19.99/month for just photoshop. Yep its and introductory rate. Afraid you have been beguiled.

On the upside at least for the photo package you get bridge also it says. Sounds as though bridge is included with any cc membership. If so they really need to advertise what cc is giving. Funny to say you get 1 program o and you also get bridge but we are not really going to tell you. If that is how they are doing it you may also randomly get acrobat or acrobat reader thrown in. Adobe please make better descriptions of your offers.

If adobe actually did 9.99/month permenent cost for photoshop, light room and bridge i would be interested. If they did other such packages with illustrator or other full programs I would be interested. As such this goes back to giving the customer 1 full program and 2 minor ones that you should be allowed to choose. Say I want illustrator, bridge and acrobat ect. If this model was expaned for 19.99/month for 2 full and 4 or all minor programs great. Lets expand that more. 29.99/month for 3-4 full programs and all minior ones.

Report · Nov 05, 2013

An Adobe representative has said it. I don't know where that is online at the moment.

Will "the current price of the offering" be $20 / month at renewal time? I can't say, but that would be a nasty thing to do.

-Noel

Report · Nov 05, 2013

Noel Carboni wrote:
Will "the current price of the offering" be $20 / month at renewal time? I can't say, but that would be a nasty thing to do.
-Noel

I can only assume such as its primarily 1 program not the get all 49.99/month package. Would be even more hilarious if their "current price" went up between now and the end of the 1 year promo to say 24.99/month so going from 9.99->24.99 is a 150% increase rofl. The photographer packages gives you lightroom, how? Through the cloud? Or a perpetual cd/dl?

Ya last summer I moved to where tv was not included in rent and got lured into looking at 30/month deal for standard cable. I was thinking o great deal. Turns out the fine print was its 30/month when you bundle with internet and phone for a total of I think like 90/month. I have a cell phone discount from UPS and internet is included in rent so very little reason to pay 50/month for tv when I can have net flix 8/month. Ya im wary of deals that sound too good to be true. Often its a promotional price like first contract period 1-2 year, part of a bundle or other weird strings attached. Lame near false advertising.

Noel im sure you dont want to hear this but please consider it. Since may and the cancellation of cs7 and the no more perpetual listening Ive questioned adobe alot. The past 2 months when I went back to school and found out about adobe cc i started a quest to find out all i could about cc, the direction adobe is going and if there are any viable options. I also asked just about ever acquaintance I know who uses adobe on their opinion. The more I looked into adobes history since cs 5.5 and the implications of the cloud and what it could become the more worried I became. I had blinders on since high school for 10 years thinking adobe was king and I would be a life long customer. I unlike those starting now used macromedia before it was bought out so slightly more willing from the get go to use other software. I became disillusioned by adobe and the blinders they had put on me. I decided to give all companies an honest chance. This does not mean I would try them all but at least consider them and what they have to offer, visit their web site to see what I thought of them as a company and products, visit wikipide on them, read credible reviews from sites that do non bies reviews and if I thought they were decent try a free trial. Lets say adobe is king of the world. You cant know for your self unless you do your own searching to find out and try some of the "runner ups". If your sure adobe is king of the world then you should have no problem looking into alternatives and making sure. Then you can say with 100% confident to people when they ask you "yes adobe is the best, i found out for myself". Please look into adobe and competitors business models, trends, treatment of customers and products and give them all an honest chance.

I was very surprised when I started my quest. I found many great companies. I found out good and bad about the companies and their products that I didnt know. I did learn good things about cc and adobe I hadn't known. You need to have looked since summer because the landscape of creative software has shifted in response to adobe and competitors. Im not 100% on any company right now. I would love for adobe to give me an great reason to stay but Im not seeing it. I went to the forums of the top companies I liked and asked what people thought about cc and how their products/company compare to adobe. People were very honest and said theirs are good at x and bad at x. I see several categories of software as graphic design, illustration, photography, web, audio, video and I think thats it. Each has very different needs. Photographers are in the most bind. There is nothing as powerful as photoshop for bit map editing. They will probably need to stay with a version of photoshop and not much they can do about that currently. Im in graphic design and have several good alternatives to indesign and illustrator. Most other software groups have several or many viable alternatives. Its really just photoshop and after effects and are very hard to replace and holding people to need adobe.

Report · Nov 05, 2013

In the end it's your choice whether to sign up, and I encourage you to exercise the decision you feel is best.

-Noel

Report · Nov 07, 2013

Best of luck to you noel.

As for me I continue my quest the best software with business model I can live with.

I did find out today that there are a few price discounts for cc getting 1 program. Muse or Edge Animation is 14.99 and Edge Impact is 9.99 and I want to say bridge is included so there are a few price options just wish an option to between select 1 program and get all. I have no idea why muse in cc and cs6 has a lower price than dreamweaver... Are they saying its not as good because its newer? Dont know about Edge but it sounds minor in uses.

Report · Nov 13, 2013

Corel should be having a new edition of its flag ship program CorelDraw in the next few months. It would be x7 and probably include a new photo-paint program. Also word perfect is due for a new edition soon. I want to what corel does with these opportunities. Also x6 was their first text heavy edition and makes it at least comparable to indesign cs 4 so who know how much farther it come come in x7. If they do well with significant imporvements I will join corel. If they go the way adobe did and just add bloat, fluff or sparkle I will probably not join them. Corel show the world what your made of.

Quarks newest edition is fairly new. It reports its just flat out better than Indesign. The problems are quark only has 1 significant product so right there is some compatability issues and they for some reason cost 850 vs cs6 indesign of 700. Dont know how much head way Quarkxpress is going to make costing 20% more and not being the standard. Dont think they will lure many indesign users away at that rate. They should try 20% less than indesign at say 550$. It seems they are still very expensive as they were in the 90's despite them no longer being the standard desk top publisher. I was surprized that indesign actually costs more than illustrator and the same as photoshop. That is just overpriced.

Indesign for 700 gives me even more reason to consider CorelDraw x7 for 500$ (430 with sales probably 40% less) for almost 30% less and be equal to indesign cs 4 and be a package deal. Next edition maybe equal to cs 6 and if that happens adobe will be a world of hurt from corel. That would mean it would be cheaper to get corels suite for 500 to replace illustrator/indesign, photoshop elments and muse for the price of the full CC membership of 600/year and only have to pay 1 time and still get perpetual lisence. If corel does this right adobe will be hurting badly and could lose alot of customers.

Report · Nov 15, 2013

Corel always has sales. When 1 sale starts less than 1 day later a new one starts. Generally 10-40% off selected products but most things go on sale.

Right now corel has their black friday sale for the next week. Its 20-85% off everything! If you have ever considered trying corel now is the time. Also includes free shipping and a free bonus of motion studio 3d a 100$ value. Im getting painter lite for 85% off being 10 and pain shop ult for 50 being 50% off so for 60$ i get a value of 370$ value! Check it out. I just cant go wrong with paint shop ult for 50$. Hard to go wrong with it being stupidly cheap. Also painter lite can be upgrades to full painter if you love it.

Just checked xara the past few days. The down side of them is they dont fully support open type and dont have many vital text heavy tools. As a graphic designer or typographer that knocks them down a few pegs and almost off my list of adobe contenders.

Just checked serif the past few days. They can actually support AI/PSD files as several their told me. So that actually puts them back on my list of adobe alternatives and put it up a few pegs.

So far the only real contener to adobe is corel with many quality products and wide range of them.

Check the black friday sales of other providers also.