Adobe, Linux Support, and the Linux Foundation.

[gai.ra.III]

While generally I've only lurked the Adobe forums I've finally worked up guts to post this. I also know that about every 1-2 months this question is asked but I think it deserves a another go around.

My premises is this:

Adobe joined the Linux Foundation in 2008 for a focus on Linux for Web 2.0  Applications like Adobe® Flash® Player and Adobe AIR™. Currently Adobe holds a silver membership status with the Linux Foundation. So why in the world do they not have any Creative Cloud Programs available in Linux without the need for WINE and other such workarounds. I think it's a sucky move to support the Linux Foundation and use Linux in the back-end while not doing anything to support actual Linux users who have for at least a decade requested Adobe desktop products on Linux. Sure it's going to take a lot of manpower, financial resources, etc. But to truly support Linux and the Linux Foundation I think it's necessary that y'all do make things like Photoshop and Lightroom available for the Linux desktop. In any regards the wider Linux community would most likely help with testing and debugging programs. We're used to it.

[Nancy OShea]

@coredumperror wrote:

"If they supported Linux, I could switch tomorrow. "

============

Have you explored Adobe's line of browser-based web apps?

FREE or Paid Adobe Express
https://helpx.adobe.com/express/using/express-overview.html

FREE Online Photoshop

https://www.adobe.com/products/photoshop/online.html

FREE Acrobat Reader online
https://www.adobe.com/acrobat/pdf-reader.html

FREE Online PDF Editor
https://www.adobe.com/acrobat/online/pdf-editor.html

[coredumperror]

I'm not interested in such tools. I want a local application, where I can save my files locally, and not have them in someone else's "cloud" where I might lose access to them at any moment at the whims of a megacorp, or when I decide to stop paying them every month. I have found it increasingly annoying that Adobe's products seem to default to "save in the cloud", which I literally never ever want to do.

[kglad]

none of my desktop adobe apps save in the cloud, by default.

[Nancy OShea]

Where do you save files from your mobile devices that lack sufficient hard drive space?

The cloud or an external HD?

Regardless of which tools you use, you still have choices about where your files are saved if you dig deep enough. 

[Kat Kremser]

Regarding the online applications listed above, unfortunately, that's not really viable for a full professional workflow if you use Illustrator, InDesign, Premiere Pro, After Effects etc. I've worked with the online version of some of these apps, and they are far from feature-complete, which is a pain if you are a long-time power user. In addition, professional tools should always be available offline. (See the mass panic on the Canva forums every time Cloudflare or AWS has an outage.)

To get back on the main topic, as of this year, the only thing holding me back from switching to Linux is the lack of Adobe support. While I completely understand what a tall order it would be to port these older flagship apps to a third OS for a relatively small market share, I hope Adobe is keeping an eye on the rate of growth of that market share this year in particular. Windows 11 is pushing a lot of people to explore alternatives, myself included.

[kglad]

linux market share increased by 1% in the past year.

[Abambo]

@Kat Kremser ,

The good and well respected @Dov Isaacs of Adobe once laid out all the reasoning, why Adobe would not consider porting the mainstream Adobe software, like Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, PremierePro, After Effects, etc, to Linux. The core of the macOS is a Unix system (if I'm correct it's based on a BSD version of UNIX), but there is a lot of proprietary add ons, like the GUI. It wouldn't be an issue, if Linux would have about the market share as macOS has. But it's not the case. 

I even started working with Photoshop on an Silicon Graphics Irix 4 system. We did test and decided against Photoshop and for a different paint box system on the Silicon Graphics. That must be some 35 years ago.

Adobe has products running on Linux, but those are a different product range, and are not desktop products. 

All Adobe desktop products run under either macOS or Windows, so they potentially run on 85% of all systems installed worldwide. Linux Desktop has a market share of about 4% (source Wikipedia). It wouldn't be difficult to see anyone at Adobe justifying the effort of porting their software to a potential of 4% market share.

Adobe's Linux interest is not the Creative Cloud.

[Sean30206362811r]

That might sound reasonable, but it's a bit of a chicken before the egg scenario. It's easy enough to blame the market share of a desktop OS. You can also argue the lack of native apps that exist on the majors that are holding linux desktop back. If there isn't a technical or financial burden to do it, why not do it and see what happens.

[kglad]

it may not be a financial burden but that's like saying flushing a $20 bill down the toilet won't cause you a financial burden, so why not do it?

ie, it's a cost-benefit issue.

[MesumHussain21879351h77v]

@Kat Kremser What I am saying is that there is tech available for porting a traditional desktop app to Web (WebAssembly), and there are already companies using it in production.

I am not suggesting to make it cloud based only. You can release a desktop app for that too. You can use tech like Electron or Tauri for that. Again we have many popular examples of such apps including Discord and VS Code (both made using Web technologies and Electron in combination). It's literally so easy to port software across platforms nowadays that you really have no genuine excuse. 

Coming to the market share argument, brought up by you, @kglad and @Abambo; I would say that people are actually getting aware of Linux and considering it as a viable alternative nowadays given the fact that many people are unhappy with Windows 11, and Windows 10 is out of support now.

And the fact that Windows 11 doesn't support PCs without TPM 2.0 rendering hundreds of millions of good enough PCs useless overnight (after the EOL of Windows 10) isn't making situation any better. Basically turning all of those decently functioning PCs into a pile of E-waste. People don't want to throw away their expensive PCs just because the [cursing removed] Windows 11 decided not to support them.

Linux market share is expected to drastically increase by next year, now that Windows 10 has reached EOL and we don't have Windows 12 around..... Although even if Windows 12 had released, the TPM 2.0 problem would still persist, so people who want security updates have to install something on those PCs, which again would have been nothing other than Linux.

But for argument's sake, let's not consider the rate of growth of Linux market share. Still I would say it makes a lot more sense to me to provide millions of children using Chrome OS in their schools, with native versions of Adobe apps, so that you don't lose them as potential customers 10 years down the line. 

Maybe investing in Linux is like draining $20 bill down the toilet like @kglad suggested, but that's with a promise of getting $20K back in the long run. The promise may or may not get fullfilled, but giving up $20 for receiving $20K in the long run seems totally rational to me.

[jane-e]

@MesumHussain21879351h77v wrote

"It's literally so easy to port software across platforms nowadays that you really have no genuine excuse."

When I was teaching Adobe apps at a community college, we had an excellent tech who did a fantastic job on the Windows computers and made adjustments when I explained what we needed and why. It was at least ten years ago that Tim told me that he used Linux at home and explained why it was a better system. I believed him.

The issue here is that Adobe has stated that they will not be creating apps for Linux, and we can't override their decision. Community Experts are volunteers and cannot "port software across platforms" any more than you can. All we can do is to tell you what Adobe's stance is on this — or give you our personal opinions.

I use Windows when I have to, and have since Windows 2.0. I don't really care for it which is why my main computers have always been Macs. MacOS and Linux are cousins, as both share a common ancestor, UNIX.

Also, Linux can be installed on a Mac, although I haven't done it personally. Here's a post from Linux support that may or may not help:

https://www.linux.org/threads/how-do-i-install-linux-on-macbook-pro-with-m1-chip.45244/

Adobe has some web-based apps that run on Linux, but the web-based apps are still missing a lot of functions.

Jane

Forum volunteer

[WaywardHam]

Hi Jane (and everyone else here)

Firstly, Merry Christmas. I've been watching this thread since I started
it years ago.

Jane, I am not mocking you in any way, but find it funny that you call
yourself a "forum volunteer"... implying that there are Adobe forum...
"/professionals?", "conscripts?", "cannon fodder?". /(Sometimes it might
feel this way). Isn't /everyone/ (outside of moderators/admins) here a
"forum volunteer" in some way?

Stating Adobe's stance is /not/ what this thread was /ever/ about. It
was about creating a place for the general public to show
/their/ interest in a Linux-friendly version of Adobe software. It was
not about debating using spurious unreferenced statistics. I don't
really think web-apps are viable replacement for the full Adobe apps, so
my petition for a standalone Linux version of even the /five /most
popular Adobe apps is /still/ relevant.

My first post cited several compelling real world "use cases" to justify
/considering/ making Adobe products for Linux, and how putting
commercial software on Linux would provide a tipping-point that would
increase Linux usage.

In many ways, I'm being proven correct. It's early days, but Linux usage
/is/ growing in numerous sections of the community. The kind of sections
of the community that /aren't/ covered by "usage statistics" so often
cited here, (even if they were rigourously sourced). Children, the poor,
people in remote areas, educational institutions, small businesses (who
in a small business has time to scratch their chin, let alone
participate in surveys)... naturally these not normally the folks who
are skipped over for one reason or another.

In my original post, I commented on the increasing importance of ROI on
computer hardware. Global inflationary pressures on all hardware prices
and Windows 11 lack of old hardware support, with wide spread
cost-of-living issues...... have created additional expenses that
individuals and corporations would rather /not/ deal with right now.
Linux can, /and does/ help with that.

*Like it or not, cheaper hardware with Linux (and it variations) /are
coming..../*

Google has figured a few things out. Notably, by creating a Linux-based,
ChromeOS, and working with numerous hardware manufacturers, they can put
a cheap Chromebook system in the hands of /millions/ of school kids and
budget-conscious people worldwide. You can /technically/ run some
streamlined Adobe stuff on them, but you probably won't run power-hungry
Premier, Photoshop, Illustrator, et al on them. At least at the time of
writing this post. Yet, a fully-fledged Linux-friendly image editor can
be installed. Installing GNU Image Manipulation Program (GIMP) on a
Chromebook is as easy as typing the /linux /command:

apt install gimp

Have a look at the growing market for Chromebooks here:

https://www.businessresearchinsights.com/market-reports/chromebook-market-108655

/Adding fuel to the fire..../

I've been volunteering with a non-profit, deploying /pallet /loads of
old corporate notebooks to kids in regional areas of Australia, Since
Microsoft has deemed these thousands of working computers "unsuitable
for Windows 11", companies have been discarding them and we redeploy
them with Linux. The kids getting these, like the Chromebook using kids,
/are/ learning Linux now as /their/ everyday OS, much like Windows/Mac
OS was for us of older generations. This particular NGO has deployed
it's fifty-/thousandth/ laptop in November... and apparently we've got
another 20K written off by large corporations coming for refurbishment
by March. /They will encourage Linux use too!/

/But isn't Linux kinda limited? Who'd actually use it?/

It's true that it's different to Macs and Windows... but we've had a lot
of success with Zorin and Elementary OS for their distinct
Windows/Mac-like interfaces respectively, which greatly reduces the
learning curve. Younger kids and tech savvy users are as happy with
Linux Mint as easily as playing with their parent's tablets/phones.

The /routine/ engagement by the kids with these Linux systems /wasn't
/great initially, until we put several/ free/ Linux games like "Extreme
Tux Racer" (Mario Kart alternative), /"Secret Maryo Chronicles" /(Super
Mario /knock off) /,/"King's Request: Physiology & Anatomy"/
(educational under the guise of a game... or makes biology, health,
anatomy learning less tedious), /"Forge of the Gods"/ (card game), /"0
A.D" /(Ancient history/warfare.. for older kids). Many of these games
have multi player, so that's really helped maintain usage and even
developed social events.

Steam putting the latest commercial games on Linux has been a huge help
as well, as has the development of Bazite, Drauger, Nobara,  which also
run modern games on Linux. A growing number of Windows gamers are
forsaking Windows (and sometimes even getting better performance from
older hardware due to the lack of OS bloat). Let's face it, /gaming/ is
one of the major reasons people initially used Windows (for fun) and
stuck with it for so long.

However, university staff/students in my old workplace, and the older
kids and teachers of my NGO work, appreciated Audacity and Linux
Multi-Media Studio (LMMS) as opposed to Audition, Krita/Scribus to
replace Illustrator/In Design respectively, and DaVinci Resolve to
replace Adobe's Premier... These apps are /getting really good/ and are
no longer the "really poor man's" alternative. DaVinci used by Hollywood
studios, is free and works on Mac, Windows and Linux. Admittedly, the
other's aren't widely used in industry... /yet. /Despite this, they can
get the job done, even if it takes a little longer because of the
reduced set of AI-assisted features.

/*My point is: */These kids and their families know and use Linux
(whether they know it or not)/now/, and they're looking to do stuff that
Adobe's software offers..  but they are often in a situation where they
could /either/ afford an Adobe subscription, or buy a new computer
that's /currently/ compatible with Adobe... but crucially... /*not both! */

If Adobe doesn't "get them young", all these kids will start thinking
(and saying to their future bosses) "I can do this with cheaper
hardware, cheaper software, and hand finished products over that many
companies would be happy with". Adobe's software isn't the /only /one
improving over time. Not seeking a broader customer base in an
increasingly competitive world is /madness./

The writing is on the wall...

Yes, Linux may be a small part of the end-user IT world now (Linux has
been huge in both R&D, networking, and of course, servers for many
years) but it's growth is undeniable and /will/ accelerate while the
conditions are right to do so. Linux as an operating system might well
up like Python amongst the pantheon of other languages. Python's just
been the quiet, convenient programming language that has seen the rise
and fall of many popular languages over the years, while steadily
growing it's user base.

Thanks for reading this, and your engagement everyone. That said, I'd
like to see more reasons to /encourage/ a Linux compatible Adobe suite,
rather than rehashing reasons 'not to' without suggestions to overcome
the obstacles.

Merry Christmas once again!

[Abambo]

@MesumHussain21879351h77v :

Coming to the market share argument, brought up by you, @kglad and @Abambo; I would say that people are actually getting aware of Linux and considering it as a viable alternative nowadays given the fact that many people are unhappy with Windows 11, and Windows 10 is out of support now.

Sorry, but this argument is coming up since we have Linux. People are not actually getting aware of Linux. People know that there is Linux around since years. It was available nowadays, yesterdays, yesteryears, and for a long time do I have Linux up and running. 

[kglad]

nothing here has "enlightened" me.  and i don't really matter anyway because i have no impact on adobe's descisions.

p.s.  i used linux for a short while 10 or so years ago.  there was just too much software i wanted that i couldn't use.

[MesumHussain21879351h77v]

@Abambo Linux has existed for a long time, but over the span of last ten years or so there's been so many significant changes which favour Linux.

Google's backing in the form of Chrome OS, Valve's backing in the form of Steam OS. Youtubers with millions of subscribers like PewDiePie, LTT, etc discussing and promoting Linux. 

Software support is also very good on Linux nowadays, almost every software has a Linux version thanks to cross platform SDKs and Frameworks. The fact that Linux works on M series Macbooks says a lot about Linux software ecosystem maturity. It no longer requires as much hacking as 10 years ago.

People are more privacy concious and tech savvy nowadays. This generation grew up having computers all around them. The fact that Microsoft had to deal with a backlash while announcing Windows Recall shows how much people are aware of tech and concerned about privacy. And the are seeing all the shady decisions Big tech giants are taking, and hence considering alternatives like Linux. 

TPM 2.0 limitation was also one of the worst decisions by Microsoft rendering almost 50% of Windows PCs useless overnight (when Windows 10 reached EOL). 

So to sum it up:

There a lot of corporate backing for improving the long standing complaints about Linux now, like software availablity (cross platform Frameworks, compatibility layer like Proton to play AAA games, Web-based apps), Hardware support (Linux almost runs on every chip, including Apple M series). 

And there's a good marketing happening for Linux too. Devices like Chromebooks, Steamdeck, Lenovo Legion Go S, etc. coming pre-installed with a version of Linux. And companies like Lenovo and Dell offering custom Laptops, where you have an option to get one with Ubuntu pre-installed. 

The duopoly of Microsoft and Apple is becoming unstable. Apple is just for premium experience, and Microsoft is messing up Windows. Which is making a vacancy for a third alternative, which Linux is filling. 

[פניקס_1393]

PLEEEEEEASE ADOBEEE MAKE IT SO I CAN USE YOUR APPS ON LINUX PLEASEE

YOU DON'T EVEN HAVE TO MAKE IT NATIVELY WORK ON LINUX, JUST MAKE YOUR WEBSITE LET ME DOWNLOAD THE EXE FILE SO I CAN RUN IT THROUGH WINE
I WANNA GIVE YOU MONEY SOOOOOO BAD AND YOU WON'T LET MEEEEE

[Abambo]

@MesumHussain21879351h77v ,

Please read the whole thread, which started somewhere in 2019. But this is a never ending story. 

There are only 43 upvotes for this, the community once did better with a single product, where the Linux theme came up: Premiere Pro. https://youtu.be/bMT51vE5lJc?si=LdjrzcPhTMPfZmdW

But no, it's still no: https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-discussions/adobe-premiere-pro-on-linux/td-p/11432462

And it was no on 2010: https://community.adobe.com/t5/framemaker-discussions/framemaker-on-linux/td-p/3048913

I wonder what the market share of Maya on Linux or Substance 3D on Linux are? As that are the only commercial and quite complex programs that I know, and have an officially supported Linux port. Autodesk's Autocad isn't running neither on Linux, btw. 

BTW: With Substance 3D, Adobe has the experience of Linux Desktop products, and they will see if there is somewhere in the near future that "massive success" of Linux, that has been seen by many hobby marketeers for decades. 

As for now: no, you need to stay with macOS or Windows. (BTW: you can install Windows 11 on unsupported machines. It's just not "officially" supported.)

[AxelMatt]

There are xeveral discussions here in the forum. Sometimes beginning in 2019 and it's a endless discussion.

Adobe, Linux Support, and the Linux Foundation. - Adobe Product Community - 10429108

At the moment there's no plan to support Linux. The effort is too great and the demand too low for it to be economically viable.

BTW: Don't cry in your post in future. Deactivate your Caps Lock - key and use it only on the beginning of a sentence or proper words.

[MesumHussain21879351h77v]

I wonder what the market share of Maya on Linux or Substance 3D on Linux are? As that are the only commercial and quite complex programs that I know, and have an officially supported Linux port. Autodesk's Autocad isn't running neither on Linux, btw. 

BTW: With Substance 3D, Adobe has the experience of Linux Desktop products, and they will see if there is somewhere in the near future that "massive success" of Linux, that has been seen by many hobby marketeers for decades. 

Btw they are competing with Blender for the market share on Linux, which is an industry accepted popular open source software. No wonder both of them aren't popular on Linux. 

A better comparison would be to see the market share of industry standard software like Unity3D, Unreal Engine, Jetbrains IDEs, Steam Games, VS Code, etc. When an industry standard software is available on Linux, people actually use it. 

And most of the time they don't even need a native app. Even a webapp would suffice in most cases. Like for example, PlatformIO, Postman, AutoCAD, Figma, Google Office Suite, Anydesk, etc.

[AxelMatt]

@MesumHussain21879351h77v  It's pointless to discuss whether or not Linux should be supported.

This thread has been running since 2019, and as already mentioned, it only has 43 upvotes. That's far too few to persuade Adobe to support Linux. The effort would be immense and wouldn't be economically viable.