Tabs/Indent alignment within a single Paragraph (using forced line breaks)

[scotts55118436]

In the following screenshot, all of the text flows in, auto-formatted by paragraph styles.

It is essential to use forced line breaks for the entire restaurant's "listing"

Is there anyway to get overhanging text to properly align, without placing an additional line break?

I tried placing Indent To Here markers before "Street Address"- but because its all one paragraph, it tiers the third location further.

Backstory: This is for a large directory in which xml is imported, and everything is auto formatted. I'm trying to minimize manual adjustments once it flows in. I do have full control of the xml and can change tabs/markers where needed.

Thanks in advance!

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Since you go out of your way to say it's essential, you must already know that soft returns are something to be avoided in professional layout, certainly not something to use as part of running paragraph formats.

If the colored icon/letters are just part of the paragraph text, I don't see why using left indent plus first line outdent would not work; I'd also use a tab (or a fixed space — ID has about six to choose from) after the icon and I'd force wrap using nonbreaking spaces rather than a soft return. I'm not even sure you need to force the break if you set up the indent and any right indent correctly, although a few entries might need touch up for best results.

ETA: Wait, after looking more closely and reading your description, you're saying this listing is one single paragraph all the way? In that case, there's simply no good way to manage this formatting. Fix the text by using Find/Replace, GREP or better XML output to create separate paragraphs for each entry. I don't think you'll ever get to a successful. manageable workflow in any other way. Very much GIGO, here.

A GREP search should be able to find the unusual icon font/character, find the space before, and replace it with a paragraph return.

[scotts55118436]

Thanks for your input everyone. Attached is why I need to use forced line breaks.

The layout changes quite frequently, and keeping each Restaurant's listing in one paragraph allows me to implement:

Text Frame Options > Vertical Justification > Paragraph Spacing Limit.

If each line were its own paragraph- the entire listing wouldn't "stick" with eachother, and the leading of the entire column becomes loose. 

Thinking on a solution, I may just GREP a soft-return: after a number of characters > find the next word boundary > add soft-return & tab.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@scotts55118436

You could do the same with separate one-cell tables. 

And then separate paragraphs - in the cell. 

Each table will be treated as a separate paragraph - and will behave exactly the same as per your video.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

Very much your project and you know all the needs and details — but I think this need could be better handled. Vertical justification in particular is a lousy tool and making the whole process work around it is maybe not the best choice.

[scotts55118436]

Interesting idea @Robert at ID-Tasker. That logic definately works, but unfotunately probably not in my application.

@James Gifford—NitroPress It definately comes in handy when we need to work fast on a large product with many moving parts.

See a quick clip of it below in action 🙂 it has some great dynamic abilities that would save me a ton of time adjusting otherwise

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Interesting idea @Robert at ID-Tasker. That logic definately works, but unfotunately probably not in my application.

By @scotts55118436

Why not? 

[scotts55118436]

I guess my knowlege with tables isn't too extensive- see  attached movie below:

The gap above the advertisement would be an issue.

Is there something I'm missing to get the table cells to auto-justify to fit the frame?

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Is there something I'm missing to get the table cells to auto-justify to fit the frame?

By @scotts55118436

I thought I've been clear - by "separate one-cell tables" I meant a separate table - with only one cell - for each paragraph you've right now.

So on your movie - you would have 6x separate tables - each consisting of a single cell - containing multiple paragraphs - with your current paragraph split into separate paragraphs - each paragraph holding one "bullet".

Of course, as you have text + phone number and want to split it into separate text lines - you can keep this one soft return in between.

[scotts55118436]

You're right, Robert- sorry. That is a fix. 

The tables auto-justify to the frame, but just won't add extra leading to fill space that VJ allows. I liked that "accordian flex" that VJ gives over keeping the table tight, but that is a small detail to ditch in the long run.

cheers.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

You're right, Robert- sorry. That is a fix. 

The tables auto-justify to the frame, but just won't add extra leading to fill space that VJ allows. I liked that "accordian flex" that VJ gives over keeping the table tight, but that is a small detail to ditch in the long run.

cheers.

By @scotts55118436

I don't understand what do you mean? 

Each table will behave like your single paragraph - will get dynamic spacing in between.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

You're right, Robert- sorry. That is a fix. 

The tables auto-justify to the frame, but just won't add extra leading to fill space that VJ allows. I liked that "accordian flex" that VJ gives over keeping the table tight, but that is a small detail to ditch in the long run.

cheers.

By @scotts55118436

Instead of a video - I hope should be enough:

Same TextFrame, just duplicated and rsized - one cell tables, in separate paragraphs.

[scotts55118436]

Yes. I meant with VJ, a certain point, it starts to adds leading between the lines at to fill out space, instead of keeping the text tightly grouped. (movie below)

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

Yes. I meant with VJ, a certain point, it starts to adds leading between the lines at to fill out space, instead of keeping the text tightly grouped. (movie below)

By @scotts55118436

OK, now I understand. 

Could be done with a simple script as a post processing - so it wouldn't be "live".

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

I've done newspaper, catalog and directory layout and all three call for some streamlined and shortcut procedures. But your reliance on VJ here is making you stack workaround after workaround on the task, and not letting you use the simplest and most powerful way to — fully automatically — format indented lists like this.

Sometimes a shortcut is the long way around, and I think that's the case here. 🙂

[scotts55118436]

Haha, good point.

Thanks for your time.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@scotts55118436

If you have full control over XML - then you should completely rebuild it. 

Each line of text on your screenshot - should be a separate paragraph - then you can map XML tags to Para / Char Styles. 

As @James Gifford—NitroPress said - forced line breaks should be avoided at all cost. 

Or at least each line starting with icon should be a separate paragraph. 

[Scott Falkner]

Whether the text comes in using line breaks or not, the goal is a properly and consistently formatted InDesign document. You don’t need the text to remain as line breaks. I would use search and replace to replace the line break before each of the circled letters with a return, then use hanging indents for the text.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

I can't come up with a Find/Replace that works, here.

The best I can do is:

• GREP for <line return><single character><space>
• REPLACE with <paragraph return><found text>
• SEARCH for <paragraph return><line return>
• REPLACE with <paragraph return>

Anything else gets tangled up in other target text or an inability to replace the correct line returns. Maybe someone with greater GREP-fu has a better plan.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

I can't come up with a Find/Replace that works, here.

[...] 

By @James Gifford—NitroPress

You can search for <forced line break> before <Anchored / InLine object> and replace it with <paragraph return>.

[James Gifford—NitroPress]

...but on second thought, if the XML export ONLY puts soft returns at the end of each entry and the long lines are being broken by manual entry at the design level, it's a simple matter of replacing all line breaks with paragraph returns as a first step. Then the indent/first line outdent method, plus selective entry of nonbreaking spaces to fine-tune any bad breaks.