#InDesign #typography Some times type pops out of the text frame, what is this called? Is there a way to detect or automatically fix it. Does it matter?
I have looked at the app.selection[0].lines[0].endHorizontalOffset, which seems to be clipped to the text frame.
It was suggested that I look at the optical settings, but these did not change the appearance.
If I export the frame the type is clipped.
Is this a bug?
*I have a motive this question, I have a plugin that can detect this effect. But, I would prefer a script.
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Replies
I can tell you that whether this is a bug or not, it's a MAJOR PAIN. Recently, Amazon KPD has apparently made their gutter restrictions more stringent, or updated their software to catch little things like this, and it has totally ruined my carefully planned layout. It's a 500+ page book with graphics and illustrations, very tedious with everything having a very specific place. And the font is serifed and some of the serifs go into the gutter no matter what I do, and KDP then flags it when I upload my manuscript.
I don't care if some people want it like this, there should be an option to absolutely make it NOT like this if other people want that. Just make an absolute option to keep all characters inside the margins no matter what.
- Changing the Margins is not an option, because it throws my entire layout off, causing everything to jump down, creating more pages, which will essentially force me to redo the entire layout.
- Changing fonts is not an option for the same reasons.
- Changing the Optical is not an option, because it might fix the serifs, but it forces the quotes to dangle instead, and then there's no way to fix that.
This file was perfectly laid out using the requirements I was given, and it took a week to get it done. Now, I have to redo the whole thing because of one little software quirk. I don't know whether KDP is being too sensitive or not, but Adobe InDesign should definitely have a fix for this.
Imagine you went to get a picture framed and the corner was sticking out of the frame
But a text frame without a stroke or fill doesn’t print. Consider this case where I’m setting 24pt justified Garamond on a 100pt margin with OMA turned on. The text visually aligns to the 100pt margins—the puncuation has to sit outside of the frame in order to create the appearance of an alignment.
I could turn off OMA, or add a 5pt inset to force the puncuation inside of the frame, but now the alignment no longer appears to be on my 100pt margin—the optical text margin is at 105 pt:
Are you talking to me @James Gifford—NitroPress forum is not great at recognising this...
Anyway - I have over 25 years typesetting experience.
I work with automated detection of text outside of a predesignated area, a pixel out is declared enough for a rejection.
Don't get to pick the fonts - already predetermined - and already said I set the text insets quite large so descenders/ascenders/accents/terminals/head serifs/tails etc. don't protrude the frame and trigger the alarm bells.
It's say 10mm margin all around, everything outside the margin is 'text free' - it's stringent.
So a situation like this is unacceptable
That's why I have to increase the text insets all around on text frames.
But besides saying 'it's a feature not a bug' - text is still outside the text frame.
Doens't matter how it's dressed up.
@Eugene Tyson - have you ever considered a white outer stroke on the frame, or a masking frame, to simplify that process?
By @James Gifford—NitroPress
How about masking TFs, exporting JPEGs, using Photoshop to get all the popouts.
So a situation like this is unacceptable
But besides saying 'it's a feature not a bug' - text is still outside the text frame.
By @Eugene Tyson
So, unless I missing something, shouldn't disabling optical margin alignment do exactly what you need (as @rob day has demonstrated above)?
OR do you still want to use OMA, but wish it to make the text more narrow by squeezing it inside the frame, instead of protruding the hanging parts?
I've made an attempt! I have written a script (that uses my earlier function to detect protruding glyphs) and makes an adjustment to the entire story's text—I just scaled the text horizontally because that was quickest—so that no glyph protrudes form the story's text frame(s).
No idea if this is suitable for real use, but it might be a starting point for a script to fix the mistake without re-flowing everything.
- Mark
/**
* @File Fix Protruding Story.js
*
* Usage:
* 1. Select a text frame.
* 2. Run script.
*
* Notes:
* - Adjusts entire story, not only selected text frame.
* - Adds left/right text inset as needed to stop glyphs
* protruding from the text frame(s).
* - Does not make attempt at vertical axis protrusions.
* - Adjusts a story by slight horizontal scaling,
* so that no glyph protrudes from the story's
* text frame(s). (A better implementations might
* adjust tracking, for example.)
* - Every text frame containing story will be given
* identical text insets, even if no glyphs protrude
* from a particular text frame; this is to avoid the
* margin jumping around in a book.
* - The left and right text insets may be different.
* - Quick, proof-of-concept only!
*
* @author m1b
* @version 2024-08-12
* @discussion https://community.adobe.com/t5/indesign-discussions/type-popping-out-of-text-frame/m-p/13711048
*/
function main() {
var doc = app.activeDocument,
textFrame = doc.selection[0];
if (
!textFrame
|| !textFrame.isValid
|| textFrame.constructor.name !== 'TextFrame'
) {
alert('Please select a text frame and try again.');
return;
}
app.scriptPreferences.measurementUnit = MeasurementUnits.POINTS;
// get all text frames containing story
var story = textFrame.parentStory,
textFrames = story.textContainers;
// calculate the maximum overshoot distance on all sides of all frames
var overTop = 0,
overLeft = 0,
overBottom = 0,
overRight = 0;
for (var i = textFrames.length - 1, frame, bounds, protrusions, over; i >= 0; i--) {
frame = textFrames[i];
protrusions = getProtrudingCharacterBounds(frame);
if (!protrusions)
return;
over = combineBounds(protrusions);
bounds = frame.geometricBounds;
overTop = Math.max(overTop, bounds[0] - over[0]);
overLeft = Math.max(overLeft, bounds[1] - over[1]);
overBottom = Math.max(overBottom, over[1] - bounds[2]);
overRight = Math.max(overRight, over[3] - bounds[3]);
}
// adjust each text frame insets so no overshoot
for (var i = textFrames.length - 1, frame, scale; i >= 0; i--) {
frame = textFrames[i];
frame.textFramePreferences.insetSpacing = [
frame.textFramePreferences.insetSpacing[0],
frame.textFramePreferences.insetSpacing[1] + overLeft,
frame.textFramePreferences.insetSpacing[2],
frame.textFramePreferences.insetSpacing[3] + overRight
];
// quick and dirty solution:
// horizontal scale text to fit
scale = (bounds[3] - bounds[1] - overLeft - overRight) / (bounds[3] - bounds[1]);
frame.textStyleRanges.everyItem().horizontalScale *= scale;
}
};
app.doScript(main, ScriptLanguage.JAVASCRIPT, undefined, UndoModes.ENTIRE_SCRIPT, 'Fix Protruding Story');
/**
* Returns bounds of the protruding
* parts of lines of text frame.
*
* Known limitation: because it duplicates the text frame,
* this will sometimes cause a reflow if a paragraph using
* a multi-line composer spans multiple text frames.
*
* @author m1b
* @version 2024-04-11
* @Param {TextFrame} tf - an Indesign TextFrame.
* @Param {Number} [offset] - distance, in points, to enlarge each bounds by (default: 0).
* @Returns {Array<Array>} - array of [T, L, B, R] arrays.
*/
function getProtrudingCharacterBounds(tf, offset) {
app.scriptPreferences.measurementUnit = MeasurementUnits.POINTS;
offset = offset || 0;
// get the outermost textframe
while (tf.parent.constructor.name == 'Character')
tf = tf.parent.parentTextFrames[0];
var bounds = tf.geometricBounds;
// duplicate text frame
var dup = tf.duplicate();
outlines = dup.createOutlines();
// add outlines of anchored text frames
while (outlines[outlines.length - 1].textFrames.length > 0)
outlines.push(outlines[outlines.length - 1].textFrames[0].createOutlines()[0]);
// find the protruding outlines
var found = [];
outlinesLoop:
for (var i = 0; i < outlines.length; i++) {
var polygons;
if (outlines[i].constructor.name == 'Polygon')
// we get a Polygon if there is only one character in text frame
polygons = [outlines[i]];
else if (outlines[i].hasOwnProperty('polygons'))
// a Group with polygons
polygons = outlines[i].polygons;
else
continue;
for (var j = 0; j < polygons.length; j++) {
var r = getProtrudingRect(bounds, polygons[j].visibleBounds, offset);
if (r)
found = found.concat(r);
}
}
// delete all the outlines
for (var i = outlines.length - 1; i >= 0; i--)
outlines[i].remove();
if (dup.isValid)
// sometimes the duplicate is left behind
// eg. when there is a table in the text frame
dup.remove();
if (found)
return found;
};
/**
* Returns the protruding part of a rectangle.
* @author m1b
* @version 2024-04-11
* @Param {Array<Number>} r1 - [T,L,B,R].
* @Param {Array<Number>} r2 - [T,L,B,R].
* @Param {Number} [offset] - the amount to expand resulting rectangle (default: 0).
* @Returns {Array<Number>} [T,L,B,R].
*/
function getProtrudingRect(r1, r2, offset) {
offset = offset || 0;
var results = [];
var top1 = r1[0], top2 = r2[0],
left1 = r1[1], left2 = r2[1],
bottom1 = r1[2], bottom2 = r2[2],
right1 = r1[3], right2 = r2[3];
if (
bottom1 <= top2 || top1 >= bottom2 || right1 <= left2 || left1 >= right2
|| (left2 >= left1 && right2 <= right1 && top2 >= top1 && bottom2 <= bottom1)
) {
// No overlap between the rectangles, or second
// rectangle is completely within the first.
return;
}
// handle cases where protrudes from both sides
if (top1 > top2 && bottom1 < bottom2) {
results = results.concat(getProtrudingRect([top1, left1, bottom2, right1], r2, offset));
results = results.concat(getProtrudingRect([top2, left1, bottom1, right1], r2, offset));
return results;
}
if (left1 > left2 && right1 < right2) {
results = results.concat(getProtrudingRect([top1, left1, bottom1, right2], r2, offset));
results = results.concat(getProtrudingRect([top1, left2, bottom1, right1], r2, offset));
return results;
}
// Define the outside rectangle.
var outside = [top2, left2, bottom2, right2];
// Check for overlap on each side and adjust the outside rectangle accordingly.
if (left1 > left2) {
outside[1] = left2;
outside[3] = left1;
}
if (right1 < right2) {
outside[1] = right1;
outside[3] = right2;
}
if (top1 > top2) {
outside[0] = top2;
outside[2] = top1;
}
if (bottom1 < bottom2) {
outside[0] = bottom1;
outside[2] = bottom2;
}
if (offset) {
// expand by offset (useful for better
// visibility of tiny protrusions)
outside[0] -= offset;
outside[1] -= offset;
outside[2] += offset;
outside[3] += offset;
}
return [outside];
};
/**
* Returns the combined bounds of all bounds supplied.
* Works with Illustrator or Indesign bounds.
* @author m1b
* @version 2024-03-09
* @Param {Array<bounds>} boundsArray - an array of bounds [L, T, R, B] or [T, L , B, R].
* @Returns {bounds} - the combine bounds.
*/
function combineBounds(boundsArray) {
var combinedBounds = boundsArray[0].slice(),
comparator;
if (/indesign/i.test(app.name))
comparator = [Math.min, Math.min, Math.max, Math.max];
else if (/illustrator/i.test(app.name))
comparator = [Math.min, Math.max, Math.max, Math.min];
for (var i = 1; i < boundsArray.length; i++) {
var bounds = boundsArray[i];
combinedBounds[0] = comparator[0](combinedBounds[0], bounds[0]);
combinedBounds[1] = comparator[1](combinedBounds[1], bounds[1]);
combinedBounds[2] = comparator[2](combinedBounds[2], bounds[2]);
combinedBounds[3] = comparator[3](combinedBounds[3], bounds[3]);
}
return combinedBounds;
};
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