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P: Save Metadata To File doesn't clear GPS EXIF fields for DNGs

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LEGEND ,
Oct 26, 2022 Oct 26, 2022

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After you clear the GPS field of a DNG via the Metadata panel, Metadata > Save Metadata To File doesn't clear the GPS coordinates in the file's EXIF.  To reproduce:

 

1. Import this DNG and observe in the Metadata panel that it has GPS coordinates:

johnrellis_0-1666837263845.png

 

2. In the Metadata panel, clear the GPS coordinates.

 

3. Do Metadata > Save Metadata To File.

 

4. Use Exiftool to observe that the file still has GPS coordinates:

 

 

$ exiftool -a -G -gps:all APC_0851.dng
[EXIF]          GPS Version ID                  : 2.2.0.0
[EXIF]          GPS Latitude Ref                : North
[EXIF]          GPS Latitude                    : 38 deg 7' 51.64"
[EXIF]          GPS Longitude Ref               : West
[EXIF]          GPS Longitude                   : 119 deg 26' 42.64"
[EXIF]          GPS Dilution Of Precision       : 6.000906208
[EXIF]          GPS Speed Ref                   : km/h
[EXIF]          GPS Speed                       : 1.770554817
[EXIF]          GPS Track Ref                   : True North
[EXIF]          GPS Track                       : 344.3322663
[EXIF]          GPS Img Direction Ref           : True North
[EXIF]          GPS Img Direction               : 260.815979
[EXIF]          GPS Horizontal Positioning Error: 6.000906208 m

 

 

 

I observe the same misbehavior with other random DNGs I tried.  The bug doesn't appear to affect JPEGs or XMP sidecars.

 

Tested on LR 12.0 / Mac OS 12.6.

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correct answers 1 Pinned Reply

Adobe Employee , Oct 27, 2022 Oct 27, 2022

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Community Beginner ,
Oct 25, 2022 Oct 25, 2022

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I woud like to remove the GPS data from some DNG files and then export a lower res DNG file. In Lightroom, I am able to delete the GPS information, and that information is gone when I look at the filre in Lightroom again after some time. However, when I view the same file in Photoshop (or Preview on my Mac), or if I export the file as a DNG (or other file format), the GPS information is still there. Yesterday I discovered that upon changing the EXIF in Lightroom, a message appears in the EXIF saying the file information has changed and I have the option of saving the changes. I'm not sure if I would need to save the changes to each file individually. Nevertheless, clicking on saving the changes has no apparent effect--- the GPS data is still there when viewing the file in Preview in Mac or in Photoshop. 

Any ideas on what's going on or how to actually remove the GPS data? 

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LEGEND ,
Oct 25, 2022 Oct 25, 2022

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Changes made in LrC do not impact the GPS (and other metadata) values embedded in the actual DNG file. You have to choose the command File->Save Metadata to Files, or turn on the option to automatically write changes to XMP, and then the metadata in the DNG file will change.

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Community Beginner ,
Oct 25, 2022 Oct 25, 2022

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Thank you for the response. I verified that automatically write changes to XMP was checked, and I also manually went to Photo >> Save Metadata to File and saved to the changes. However, neither of those resulted in the deleted GPS fields saving to the file. In all cases, when I open the file in question, the GPS information is still present. I also exported the file as a DNG and had the same results. 

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Community Expert ,
Oct 25, 2022 Oct 25, 2022

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The Author stated " then export a lower res DNG file.".

In the export dialog towards the bottom Metadata> exported info can be controlled, try selecting "Remove location info".

I cannot check as my Camera does not imbed GPS info.

 

Regards, Denis: iMac mid-2015, 5K 27”, GPU 2GB, Ram 24GB, HDD 3TB, macOS 11.7.3 BigSur,; LrC 12.1, Lr 6.1, Ps 24.1.1,; ACR 15.1.1,; Camera OM-D E-M1

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Community Beginner ,
Oct 25, 2022 Oct 25, 2022

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Remove location info is not available for DNG file type upon export.

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Community Expert ,
Oct 26, 2022 Oct 26, 2022

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You are correct that option is not available when exporting to DNG.

A couple of questions how are you deleting the GPS info from the original file imported into LrC?.

What file type?

 

Regards, Denis: iMac mid-2015, 5K 27”, GPU 2GB, Ram 24GB, HDD 3TB, macOS 11.7.3 BigSur,; LrC 12.1, Lr 6.1, Ps 24.1.1,; ACR 15.1.1,; Camera OM-D E-M1

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LEGEND ,
Oct 26, 2022 Oct 26, 2022

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There's a bug with the Save Metadata To File command not clearing GPS info from DNGs. I just filed a bug report:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-bugs/save-metadata-to-file-doesn-t-clear-gps-exif-f...

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LEGEND ,
Oct 26, 2022 Oct 26, 2022

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Community Beginner ,
Oct 26, 2022 Oct 26, 2022

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Thank you for posting this bug! So now we wait until the Adobe Engineers fix and issue an update?

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Community Beginner ,
Oct 26, 2022 Oct 26, 2022

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Thank you very much John

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LEGEND ,
Oct 26, 2022 Oct 26, 2022

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Adobe will verify they can reproduce it (which in this case should be straightforward), then enter it into their internal tracking system.  Then they'll prioritize it with all the other bugs to fix.  LR releases about every eight weeks, so mid-December is when we might expect to see LR 12.1, but it wouldn't surprise me if the fix for this came in 12.2 or later (or never) -- I don't have any inside information.

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Adobe Employee ,
Oct 27, 2022 Oct 27, 2022

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Setting status - adding bug number 

Rikk Flohr - Customer Advocacy: Adobe Photography Products
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Community Expert ,
Oct 27, 2022 Oct 27, 2022

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John, in your testing did you look at any other metadata fields as well as GPS? It seems from my testing that the Title field is also not cleared if saving an empty field to metadata. It would be useful to have confirmation.

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Community Expert ,
Oct 27, 2022 Oct 27, 2022

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I am a bit confused with this issue and exactly what we are dealing with.

In an earlier post I asked what file type? Is it a DNG file created by the Camera and contains the GPS coordinates?

So, is it an original RAW file converted at import into LrC?

How does this fit into the Adobe Lightroom concept of not altering the original file?

Will the coordinates be deleted from the original capture and not be recoverable?

The author of the post indicating he was exporting i.e. creating a new file and did not wish the GPS data to be included.

PS.

I have done some further testing, which answered most of the questions in my post.

Downloaded the image file from the link in the Author's initial post (I somehow missed the link) imported into LrC 12 and in the Library module > metadata > removed the GPS data, then proceeded to export as DNG. The export dialog did not allow a resize of the image or the removal of any metadata including " Remove Location info".

I am using LrC Classic with default options so I do not have "Automatically write to xmp" selected.

LrC is functioning as expected and does not alter the Original file.

If the GPS data is being removed with another application I fail to see why Reading Metadata from the file should alter the Original imported file.

Export as a tiff, psd or jpg.

 

 

 

Regards, Denis: iMac mid-2015, 5K 27”, GPU 2GB, Ram 24GB, HDD 3TB, macOS 11.7.3 BigSur,; LrC 12.1, Lr 6.1, Ps 24.1.1,; ACR 15.1.1,; Camera OM-D E-M1

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Community Expert ,
Oct 27, 2022 Oct 27, 2022

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@DdeGannes 

 

What we are dealing with is:

1. A DNG file, it probably doesn't matter how it was created. In my case I create DNG files in LrC from my CR3 raw captures.

2. The DNG has GPS coordinates associated with it, again it doesn't matter if the GPS data was included at the point of capture or was added in LrC's Map module.

3. Metadata was then saved to XMP in LrC. As you probably know LrC stores the metadata in XMP sidecar files (in the case of proprietary Raw files) or directly into the XMP section of the file header for all other file types. So in this case the metadata, including GPS data, was stored in the DNG file header.

4. The OP then wanted to export the DNG, but did not want the GPS data included in the exported file. To do this, they erased the GPS coordinates from the Metadata panel, then saved metadata back to the file, which should have cleared the existing GPS data from the file header, then exported.

5. The apparent bug is that when saving the changed metadata, which now has a blank GPS data field, the existing GPS data field was not overwritten with the new blank field. 

6. In my testing, the same problem occurs with the Title field as well.

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Community Expert ,
Oct 27, 2022 Oct 27, 2022

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At Jim Wilde,  stated "4. The OP then wanted to export the DNG, but did not want the GPS data included in the exported file. To do this, they erased the GPS coordinates from the Metadata panel, then saved metadata back to the file, which should have cleared the existing GPS data from the file header, then exported."

Ok the original DNG file contains the GPS coordinates are included in that file and as far as I know Lightroom will not delete that info as the concept the Original file is not altered. Removing the Metadata from the Library module is probably removing it from being displayed and saving metatadata to the file may add info to the file header like other edits and does not alter the Original the GPS data remains intact.

PS. I also tested this, after removing the GPS data in the Library module for the DNG and exported a jpeg, added to the Catalog and the GPS is back and displayed in the Library Module. The GPS remains in the DNG even though it is not displayed.

If it was an Original Raw file the info would be in a xmp sidecar and the GPS in the original file would remain intact, why should DNG raw be treated differently. Lightroom needs to retain the integrity of the original file.

Regards, Denis: iMac mid-2015, 5K 27”, GPU 2GB, Ram 24GB, HDD 3TB, macOS 11.7.3 BigSur,; LrC 12.1, Lr 6.1, Ps 24.1.1,; ACR 15.1.1,; Camera OM-D E-M1

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Community Expert ,
Oct 27, 2022 Oct 27, 2022

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Did a few further tests as follows,

Using the original imported DNG made some basic edits in the Develop Module and removed the GPS data in the Library Module > Metadata. Then from the menu Metadata > Save Metadata to the file, watited about 10 sec just to ensure that was completed, then from the menu Metatdata > Read Metadata from the file. Result the image shows the edits done in the Develop Module and the GPS coordinates are showing. Removed the GPS again, then exported to DNG the file shows the GPS coordinates. GPS coordinates in the original file are retained, which is as expected with Lightroom preserving the integrity of the Original.

Same happens with export as jpg and tiff not selecting Metadata > Remove Location Information not selected. GPS info retained.

With jpeg and tiff if Metadata > Remove Location Information selected the exported image does display the GPS coordinates. New file created without GPS info and Original integrity retained.

LrC functions as designed for me on my Win PC using LrC 12 and latest Win 11 update.

 

Regards, Denis: iMac mid-2015, 5K 27”, GPU 2GB, Ram 24GB, HDD 3TB, macOS 11.7.3 BigSur,; LrC 12.1, Lr 6.1, Ps 24.1.1,; ACR 15.1.1,; Camera OM-D E-M1

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LEGEND ,
Oct 27, 2022 Oct 27, 2022

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"It seems from my testing that the Title field is also not cleared if saving an empty field to metadata."

 

The same misbehavior occurs for me with GPS, Title, and User Comment but not any other field (e.g. it doesn't occur with Caption, Keywords, or any IPTC fields other than Title).

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Community Expert ,
Oct 28, 2022 Oct 28, 2022

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At John, I believe the original capture metatadata should be preserved, metadata added after should be editable. My observation however is the image under discussion is a DNG created by the Camera with the GPS coordinates included. That is what LrC is preserving and that should continue, user can do either turn of the option in their camera or export and create a new file type and remove the location data there. Just my humble opinion.

Regards, Denis: iMac mid-2015, 5K 27”, GPU 2GB, Ram 24GB, HDD 3TB, macOS 11.7.3 BigSur,; LrC 12.1, Lr 6.1, Ps 24.1.1,; ACR 15.1.1,; Camera OM-D E-M1

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LEGEND ,
Nov 15, 2022 Nov 15, 2022

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@DdeGannes, I'm sorry, I saw your reply just now (seems the forum platform has dropped lots of my notifications in the last few weeks).

 

"My observation however is the image under discussion is a DNG created by the Camera with the GPS coordinates included. That is what LrC is preserving and that should continue, user can do either turn of the option in their camera or export and create a new file type and remove the location data there. Just my humble opinion."

 

I understand your point, but the behavior occurs with Title and User Comment as well.  Your argument wouldn't apply to those fields.

 

In general, LR maintains the principle that any metadata field that can be changed in the application can be (optionally) saved back to the file. It seems inconsistent to me to have a special rule for GPS. 

 

If a user takes a JPEG with a camera that records GPS, should LR not write back changed GPS coordinates to that JPEG?  In this case, what would be the difference between a DNG and a JPEG created by the camera?

 

What about a DNG or JPEG in which the camera didn't record GPS coordinates.  If the user later adds the coordinates in LR, should LR not write them back to the files, like it does with all other metadata (keywords, caption, title, star rating, etc.).

 

 

 

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Community Expert ,
Nov 15, 2022 Nov 15, 2022

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At John, I stated “My observation..............................Just my humble opinion”

It's just my understanding that LrC always retains the original imported image and you should always be able to export an original with all the data intact. If you wish to create a file with data altered you can do so by exporting it to a new file. My point is the DNG in discussion is created by the Camera and tangermount to a RAW file and any alterations made should be saved separately in the file header.

Again just my humble opinion.

One other thought when I was working with the DNG file that was shared there was no option to export the DNG to DNG. With Camera Raw files you can export the original and if you wish to share edits and added metadata you would need to share the XMP sidecar.

I cannot check that as I have not retain the DNG.

Regards, Denis: iMac mid-2015, 5K 27”, GPU 2GB, Ram 24GB, HDD 3TB, macOS 11.7.3 BigSur,; LrC 12.1, Lr 6.1, Ps 24.1.1,; ACR 15.1.1,; Camera OM-D E-M1

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Community Expert ,
Nov 15, 2022 Nov 15, 2022

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Just another thought, how does Bridge / Camera Raw deal with a DNG image like the one the author of this thread is working with?

 

Regards, Denis: iMac mid-2015, 5K 27”, GPU 2GB, Ram 24GB, HDD 3TB, macOS 11.7.3 BigSur,; LrC 12.1, Lr 6.1, Ps 24.1.1,; ACR 15.1.1,; Camera OM-D E-M1

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