P: Ability to sync Lightroom Classic keywords with the Lightroom Ecosystem

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Keywords do not sync correctly: When added on the mobile app (iOS), they do not appear in LR classic and not in LR Web (I deleted the new LR CC immediately, this version does not make sense to me).
Same problem into the other direction: Keywords from LR classic do not appear on the mobile app. 
Attention: At this stage the whole keywording within the iOS app should not be used!

[Lewis Craik]

It certainly does feel like Adobe are going out of their way to make the experience of using CC Classic and CC together as bad as possible.

[Antoine HLMN]

I don't think it is on purpose, but what's obvious is that cloud/sync integreation on the working LR (aka classic) is still in beta stage and won't evolve anymore. Just the bare minimum to show "no, classic is not discontinued". Even though it seems to be... Buisiness decision. And it is understandable that the integration of new technologies (AI, sync, cloud, ...) in a dynosaure (LR classic...) is quite difficult without rewriting everything...

--> So why not rewrite everything and ensure the users are more trapped whitin the system in order secure recurrent revenues? This all makes sense and is understandable!

However, the new LR is also still in beta, does not respond the photographer's need (it's designed as a mobile app) and is obviously designed to secure the recurrent revenue, BEFORE delivering a decent software.
If the new LR were a great software, integrating all the working concepts of classic, whit additional features of sync, AI, web integration and all this... why not ? But it's not! It has too many flaws and omissions.

Now LR is divided in two, unfinished softwares:
1) Classic, which I belive a lot of people will still be using because it corresponds best to the photographer's need, which is SLOW and on which the sync integration is POOR (/bad/horrible).

2) The newly written LR which is not finished yet, which does not respond to the photographer's need and which first goal seems to be to 'trap' the user's in the 'cloud' ecosystem in order to make it as difficult as possible to switch to another software.

[Charlyw64]

@Antonine, I think it's not helpful if you start diverting the attention away from the issue at hand and instead go to the LR is shit argument... A software never is finished - it only is ever finished when it's development is stopped and it's discontinued!

[olivier_gx]

You are totally right.
So strange every time we are asking something we think is legit, somebody comes and tries to explain the inexplicable 

[Gilles Theophile]

The real fact is that Lr Classic and Lr CC are two different work environments, for different users, and you should understand it, as Adobe has always been totally clear with that. You are simply not supposed to use both programs.
Syncing complex keywords hierarchy is difficult, and Lr Classic is not up to that task. Just to understand, look at the many problems when you simply sync collections to the cloud : slow sync, stuck files, etc. I believe that Adobe tried to balance the user needs (and requests) and the technical risks, and this balance was not achievable.

[Lewis Craik]

The thing is they are so nearly there, they are snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

[Charlyw64]

@GILLES It's funy because the thing that would lock me in more than anything into the Adobe toolchain would be a seamless keyword facility between the cloud and desktop version of their DAM...

[olivier_gx]

The real fact Gilles is
1) we have understand
2)it is not because we understand we are not allowed to complain.

It is unbelievable everything is synching perfectly, I have to admit this is a real performance and can understand how difficult it is to do, really.

It just seems the last step was not achieve for political reasons. By design as previously mentionned.

We too understand hierarchy in keyword add complexity to the complexity. I personally do not use this. My keywords are very specific (technical/legal. I'm not able to sync a full 2 way.
But keyword is just the tip of the iceberg.

It is ok,  Classic and CC are 2 different offer for different users an so on,

The real fact is :

Classic becomes unusable because too fat, too big, too laggy, too slow

CC is just a pre-alpha software with too much limitation to enter in a real production environnement.

Maybe we are not supposed to use both software BUT I've never see on there advert.

And if we use both it is not by nostalgia but because the switch is just not feasible because once again CC weakness.

We can share so much about those points... but let focus about the keyword sync.

In a strict technical terms, I can't understand why it is so complex to sync a keyword which can simply be embedded in the photo??? Everything is embedded and/or sync but the keyword.

What's the point? Adobe is kidding us. That's the real fact.

Adobe have to listen to our customer.

If customer want a real keyword management it is because users need it in CC.
If customer asks a real sync it is because Adobe is not able to provide an real keyword management in CC and we need to use Classic.
If customer ask a non case sensitive or a list of already keyword it is because it is far more efficient and logic.
You can't deny or forget you and adobe earn money thanks to your valued customers.

[olivier_gx]

@ Karl, 
Ok it is your point of view. 
We (or I) just need keyword. Actually not possible with CC.

Image edition or development is really easy and strong. That what make me stay in the adobe ecosystem. 

[Antoine HLMN]

@Karl, I'm not trying to divert the attention... I'm trying to find a rational explanation for the many issues LR is suffering from, starting from this one. This topic has been created 11 months ago, is maybe one with the most "me toos" or at least the most dabated one, and is parked as "answered".

I'd love you to prove me wrong, really... but except trying to understand WHY Adobe behaves like this, I have no other idea for being helpfull as reporting bugs and stating my -personal- observations of the evolutions (or lack of, in certain cases).

Maybe other poeple will read this and think the same, mabe not. Maybe Adobe will read this and react, mabe not. At least I do my part: report the bugs and try to give the devs the tools the LR we are -in the end- paying for. Just saying...

[Gilles Theophile]

Olivier, don't get me wrong : I perfectly understand your needs and your concerns. I have no clue if this situation will change - I doubt - but I'm pretty sure that Lr CC will get autotag features one day, which will be a huge step forward. 
I think the problem we are all facing is that we are at a turning point and it is never easy.

[olivier_gx]

You are right Gilles, 
I do really appreciate LR CC, this turning point is critical but mandatory
Maybe autotag will be efficient enough in some days, but I wish I can keep things in control and search offline. 

[Charlyw64]

@GILLES, as I explained autotagging is a total gimmick to me. For me it's vital to be able to search for keywords and change them when being offline and they need to synchronize to my office system - and the Lightroom CC cloud infrastructure (excluding the synchronized Lightroom Classic CC smart previews) is simply not ever going to cut the mustard. I couldn't even use it to manage the images of one day - because then my mobile data cap for the month would be hit within a few days, or sometimes even a few hours.

[Antoine HLMN]

Autotag does not mean you can not add your own tags. I don't see why the two cold not exist in parallel. Let AI generate keywords, and us add our ours. The search function could only be better with this 🙂 (even with a toggle for the AI keywords... 'cause you never know...)

Like you said, AI could recognize an orchid but certainly not a hybrid 🙂
And when you add a butterfly on it...

https://flic.kr/p/27sVwqC

[anothertal3]

I really don't think that this specific issue is a "mandatory" necessity

LR CC will not be a usable alternative for some of us as long as there's the requirement to upload everything via cloud/internet.

However, extending the workflow e.g. by being able to edit changes especially to meta information via cloud/mobile is a nice thing. They did it with a lot of data already and - from a technological perspective - there's no reason to omit keywording.

In addition, I concur with those people who already explained why AI cannot be a replacement for existing keywording. I regard auto-tagging the same way as LR Classic's face recognition: it's a handy thing to speed up my workflow but it needs supervision and correction (e.g. turned heads) and I will never be able to rely solely on its capabilites.

Also: I like and do use hierarchical keywords. Pity they didn't bother to add this proven feature as base system in LR CC. Again: it's not too hard to implement from a technical point of view and people who prefer flat lists are free to use them.

[Gilles Theophile]

Agreed Antoine, we need to keep the possibility to add tags manually - which is the case in Lr CC, even the mobile and the web versions. Only autotag is missing.
However, I wouldn't bet about identifying or not an hybrid or a butterfly on it. We are not there yet, but it will be possible one day, an probably faster than we can thought.
As an example, Google Photos is able to recognize dog breeds and using their AI through the AnyVision plugin for Lr, it was able to identify and tag a Mercedes300 SL 😉

[Antoine HLMN]

Gilles, your right! My point was not to criticise AI, on the contrary. I'm lazy and I hate manual tagging, I really love auto tags. And the more accurate the are, the better 🙂

What I ment was: how good autotag might be, manual tags will always be needed.

And youre also right, AI will certainly do a "better" job than humans. Skin cancer detection is a good (yet very specific) example 😉

[Charlyw64]

@GILLES, sorry, nature is so diverse - I have photos of net winged insects that look to all intents and purposes like butterflies (in German their name also alludes to that fact, they are called "Schmetterlinghaft" which translates to "butterfly like"). I wouldn't trust any AI to correctly identify that. And I have photos of butterflies that look like hornets or wasps - including the translucent wings. I don't believe that any general purpose AI (and that's what we are talking about with regard to the keywording AI in Lightroom CC) will ever be able to cope with specialist fields of expertise.

[olivier_gx]

Happy to see some really constructive criticism about tag, tag management and autotag. Sometime I'm afraid to be alone with this sort of problem or workflow

To summarize, we want a real tag management ( for exemple a special menu same as date filter but with autofill function etc) in conjunction with autotag.
To fulfill the request smart folder based on Manuel tag would be a must :)))))

We do not want just autotag and a poor tag management (No autofill, no search offline etc etc) just because we are part of another audience. 

Is someone (Gilles in instance 🙂 ) can forward our wishes in Adobe dev' team ?

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

> Is someone (Gilles in instance 🙂 ) can forward our wishes in Adobe dev' team ?

They read everything. Whether it'll change their minds of the direction they've decided to take which each app is more debatable. But they are reading.

[Antoine HLMN]

A roadmap is even too much to ask, so I don't excpect any change of mindset, at least as long as the cash is flowing. Is it aslo a deliberate decision NOT to tell what the plans are ("we know it better") or does it mean there is no roadmap at all (which I strongly doubt!) ?
I don't want to be of bad omen, but if/when a competitor comes out with a comparable product, many people will grab for popcorn and watch 🙂

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Antoine,
Like most users in this forum you think that answering your questions or not is only the result of a marketing (business) choice.
Did you know that it's legal obligation for big companies under the rules of the Stock Exchange market not to give misleading information to shareholders? Suppose you are woking for one such company and responsible for answering publicly to the customers: I bet you'll be severely trained about what you are allowed to say or not. It's even true for people outside Adobe which can get pieces of information under NDA (non-disclosure agreement).
There are hundreds of posts here and in other Adobe forums to confirm that it's useless to ask precisely when the ACR version for your newly bought DSLR raw version will be ready. You have to wait until it's really ready.

Now, betwen us, we do know that, as we say in French:

"Un train peut en cacher un autre"

"Inutile de jouer la mouche du coche."

"Plus un singe monte au cocotier..."

Just joking, nothing personal. In this forum it's important to add your opinion and vote for useful suggestions; more users should do it. Don't you feel that some users in this forum have a tendency to use it as their personal blog?

[Charlyw64]

Antonine, I think you should create your own thread where you can discuss development policy to your heart's content. This one IMHO should stay on track of the single issue of keywords not synchronizing!

[Antoine HLMN]

Michel, I totally understand the legal obligations. But I'm not convinced a roadmap cannot be communicated for those reasons. Many camera manufacturers, for example, communicate on their lens roadmap. How is that different? Why could a software company nota roadmap?

Karl, as there is no other explanation as "this is technically impossible" or "this is by design"; don't blame us for speculation about reason behind those explanations.

Furthermore, maybe the number of replies to this thread will change the "answered" status of this thread.

[Victoria Bampton LR Queen]

> Furthermore, maybe the number of replies to this thread will change the "answered" status of this thread.

It started out as a question, which was answered. However I have changed it to a feature request, just on the vaguest of off chances that thousands of votes might change Adobe's decision.