P: Ability to sync Lightroom Classic keywords with the Lightroom Ecosystem

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Keywords do not sync correctly: When added on the mobile app (iOS), they do not appear in LR classic and not in LR Web (I deleted the new LR CC immediately, this version does not make sense to me).
Same problem into the other direction: Keywords from LR classic do not appear on the mobile app. 
Attention: At this stage the whole keywording within the iOS app should not be used!

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Antoine,
The general roadmap is disclosed in official statements that everybody can read and comment. My quote about "a train possibly hiding another"means that legal obligations may be handy to hide marketing preferences or decisions...
I agree with Karl Günter that it would be better to discuss the matter in another discussion. However, your question is not only why Adobe does not communicate better, it's about the future of the CC and Classic versions and a critical issue in the present stage: sharing keywords.
To be blunt, Adobe is not hiding anything. They are ready to change direction depending on many factors, including the ability of their teams to solve the keywords aspect. The roadmap probably has several options. Nobody will comment about this prematurely, especially in this technical forum.

If we stay on the keywords topic, I am very interested even though I don't user either LR version (only Elements) for my personal needs, Adobe gives me the suscription only to help Elements users to compare and choose the best solution. Today, there is no possible direct connection between Elements and Photoshop CC. You need to convert catalogs via the Classic version. You can't sync your catalogs, you can't use PSE as an external editor. The 1TB subscription offer for CC would seem interesting, but syncing and organizing features of the organizer are missing.

What is striking is that the current version of the organizer already offers user friendly and advanced features both in text search or visual recognition. You can create a visual multicriteria search combining keywords, people, places, albums, substrings in captions and much more. Just like a Google search. And its new smart tagging to search by any work like 'tree', 'automn', 'guitar'... those are features people are expecting to be still faster within a Cloud service than locally in a 'consumer grade' app like PSE.

My personal opinion is that the final course followed by Adobe will highly depend on the ability to solve the technical keywords syncing issues discussed here. They may have a 'Plan B'.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

As everything else is synchronised between LR Classic and Lightroom CC, It seems very surprising that there is no connection in both direction for keywords. I really hope that this problem will be solved very soon. It seems that many people are, as I am, waiting for that !Many thanks , Olivier

[olivier_gx]

it seems to be totally deliberate. And one champion explains no more information will ever be synchronize from Classic to the cloud.

[johnrellis]

Right, according to Victoria Bampton (Lightroom Queen), who is pretty well-plugged-in to Adobe, "no new sync functionality will be added to Classic (so keywords and collection hierarchy won’t sync)." Of course, they might change this decision if they get enough feedback from customers.

[Charlyw64]

Come on Adobe, it can't be that hard to get the keywords to synchronize! Yet another update and no show!

[Antoine HLMN]

Thanks for insisting, Karl! Maybe one day... 😉
If I have'nt switched to darktable, On1 or DxO before 🙂 😉

[hubertusl77452904]

I agree with you all, not synchronizing keywords between LR CC mobile and LR Classic neglects in my humble opinion the very core functionality of LR. I am not a happy customer right now.

My LR (classic) library contains now every single photo I shot in the last 40+ years. For me there will never be a reason to transfer this huge amount of data into the cloud simply because I don’t need to access it very often.

But for actual projects saving the photos in the cloud and having access to the them from a variety of devices is an important feature. With Apples new iPad Pro it would be possible to travel light, which is getting more important every day.

But please ADOBE make it possible, that added keywords are synchronized to LR classic afterwards. I do know that the keyword architecture is different between LR Classic and LR CC. I would even understand if it would be difficult to synchronize the keywords from LR Classic to LR CC. But the other way round must be possible!

Please make it at least possible to synchronize keywords from LR CC (mobile) to LR Classic! This would be at least a step into the right direction.

And just to let you know: apart from these two mentioned functions I am a very happy customer for many years now.

Hubertus Lemke

[johnrellis]

Hubertus, be sure to vote for this feature request too: 
https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/creative-sdk-provide-access-to-lightroom-cc-k...

With just a few hours of engineering, Adobe could enable plugins to sync keywords. (Of course, it would be better if Adobe built that in, but so far they've said explicitly they won't be adding new features to sync between LR Classic and CC.)

[Ken Tryon]

The extremely bizarre part of this is that I have old keywords from Aperture which don't show up in Lightroom Classic, but do show up in Lightroom CC. Can anyone explain that?

[john beardsworth]

If depends on the exact route they took from Aperture to Classic, and you don't say that. Ap > LRCC > Classic? Ap > Classic via Regular Import > LRCC? Ap > Classic Plugin > LRCC?

The key is if the keywords were saved to the original file when it first reached Adobe's server. If so and you import the files into LRCC, the keywords are in the original which is uploaded to the server, then downloaded into Classic - minus keywords.

[Ken Tryon]

The path was Aperture > Lightroom (pre-CC split) via Aperture library import > Lightroom CC (via Lightroom Classic cloud sync). I’m not sure if the keywords were applied in (long gone) Aperture or as part of the Lightroom import. I just know they weren’t applied in Lightroom CC—one example is [From Aperture].

[john beardsworth]

The import plugin should bring in anything applied in Aperture, so the keywords should now be in Lightroom Classic CC, as Adobe call it. If by Lightroom CC you mean what Adobe call Lightroom CC (ie the new confusingly-named PC/Mac app), then it would be normal that the keywords wouldn't be visible - as I said before, Adobe have chosen to fail to sync keywords from Classic.

You've got to be careful naming the various Lightrooms - not your fault! I am a bit confused.

[Ken Tryon]

I'll try again with your nomenclature:

• Photo (Canon raw) imported into Aperture from camera

• Photo imported into Lightroom Classic CC via Aperture library import feature

FWIW, This happened just as Apple discontinued Aperture support, and before Adobe split Lightroom CC and Lightroom Classic CC

• Photo synced to Lightroom CC via synced collection in Lightroom Classic CC, original only on my Mac.

Make more sense?

I've found on my older photos, keywords applied in Aperture are visible in both Lightroom Classic CC and Lightroom CC. There are also some keywords which appear to have been applied in the library import plugin (for instance, Features From Aperture)—these (really strangely) don't show up in Lightroom Classic CC, but do show up in Lightroom CC.

Keywords applied in Lightroom Classic CC are only visible there, even when there are keywords from Aperture on the same photo—as you say, keywords must be stored in different places. Lightroom CC is consistent on both mobile (iPad) and Mac platforms.

I also discovered most other metadata doesn't sync either. Labels (color or otherwise), locations, etc. don't sync. It appears only camera generated info, title, caption, star ratings, and pick flags sync across platforms.

There clearly are some complicated data structure issues going on here. I can see why Adobe would want to simplify and clean up metadata management in Lightroom CC, but it's a deal breaker for me that there is no sync at all. I wonder if their Lightroom Classic CC > Lightroom CC migration function does any better?

[Todd Shaner]

I have a similar issue and trying to determine the cause. I'm using LR Classic 8.0 to upload images in a synced collection to the Cloud. When I go to LR Web (https://lightroom.adobe.com/) I can see all of the pictures in the collection, but only some of the images are showing the keywords assigned using LR Classic only and NOT LR CC. Some of the keywords were added after the collection was synced, but that shouldn't matter correct? If I apply Develop module edits to any image file in that collection the changes do get synced to the Cloud and can be seen in the Web view. I did install LR CC 2.0.2, but only to sync my custom camera profiles to the Cloud.

I forgot to add that this synced collection is now visible inside LR CC 2.0.2, but I have not applied any edits, keywords or added images.

Any ideas?

[john beardsworth]

With Classic, the key is that Adobe's server parses any keywords found in the smart preview that it receives when you sync a photo from Classic. A smart preview contains keywords if you have saved metadata back to the original before the smart preview was created.

You then have to examine a few scenarios:
1. No smart preview in Classic before syncing, and you have saved metadata back to the file. In this case, keywords are uploaded because sync creates the smart preview
2. Smart preview created before you save metadata back to the original, and you then sync. In this case, the smart preview already exists without any keywords (CmdS doesn't update the smart preview) and sync uses the existing smart preview.

[Todd Shaner]

Thanks John, so this has nothing to do with LR CC? Smart Previews and Save Metatdata to File were NOT used with any of these image files before or after Sync to Cloud with LR Classic. What's the best way to get the current keywords in the LR Classic catalog up to the Smart Preview files in the Cloud?

[Jao vdL]

The only way is to unsync them all from CC, delete all smart previews if you have any, and do a write metadata to files. Then add them back to the sync and let them upload.

[john beardsworth]

Keywords entered in any LRCC app will appear in all other LRCC apps. Keywords from Classic only sync if metadata has been saved to the original/sidecar at the point a smart preview is baked. So syncing of keywords from Classic is accidental - Sync's code to generate smart previews simply processes the original, metadata and all.

You say you haven't entered the keywords in LRCC though, and since you say you didn't Save Metadata to File, my guess is that the keywords would not normally have come from Classic. So I am unclear why you have a mixture of some with, some without!

If the files are TIF/PSD,  keywords which you had applied to raw files could have been written to those TIF/PSD files as part of Edit In > Photoshop. LR would have carried those keywords over into the smart preview which it uploads.

One caveat is if the files have been synced for a long time - the keywords may have have been uploaded by earlier sync code which was abandoned. But this a wild guess, based on something I suspected was happening a year ago.

As for "What's the best way to get the current keywords in the LR Classic catalog up to the Smart Preview files in the Cloud?", you cannot get the keywords up to join these existing synced photos. However you could just sync them again - so unsync the photos, Save Metadata to File, delete any local smart previews, and then sync the photos again.

It's hugely disappointing that Adobe have made this decision.

[Todd Shaner]

"The only way is to unsync them all from CC, delete all smart previews if you have any, and do a write metadata to files. Then add them back to the sync and let them upload."

Thanks Jao that procedure works to get the current keywords in the catalog up to the Cloud. The only way I can see to remove the files uploaded by LR Classic from LR CC is to 'Delete' them from LR CC. I deleted a single image from LR CC just as a test to make sure it wasn't deleted from the LR Classic catalog or hard drive. It wasn't deleted from either, but it was removed from the synced collection in LR Classic.

"You say you haven't entered the keywords in LRCC though, and since you say you didn't Save Metadata to File, my guess is that the keywords would not normally have come from Classic. So I am unclear why you have a mixture of some with, some without!"

John, I think what happened is that I added keywords to some pictures before adding all of them to a synced collection. I then proceeded to add keywords to other pictures in the collection, which as stated will NOT automatically sync up to the Cloud.

So what happens if I open LR CC Desktop, which will cause it to download and sync all of the LR Classic Smart Previews in the Cloud? Does that now prevent updating keywords in LR Classic as outlined above or will it still work? I'm reluctant to try it as I've sent the collection Web share link to others for review and I don't want to screw it up!

"It's hugely disappointing that Adobe have made this decision."
John, I couldn't agree with you more! I have no intentions of using LR CC at this time except for testing purposes. IMHO it's not ready for prime time use by professionals and serious amateurs who need the tools available in LR Classic. It can't be that difficult to add sync capability to LR Classic so that it can sync keywords properly AND custom camera profiles.

[john beardsworth]

"So what happens if I open LR CC Desktop, which will cause it to download and sync all of the LR Classic Smart Previews in the Cloud? Does that now prevent updating keywords in LR Classic as outlined above or will it still work? I'm reluctant to try it as I've sent the collection Web share link to others for review and I don't want to screw it up!"

It has no impact., Todd. Keywords still won't sync between Adobe's servers and Classic - they only get to LRCC accidentally as described above. You can carry on adding keywords in Classic, but they won't be synced.

Though I have been very enthusiastic about LR Mobile and liked how it let me take work away from the desktop, I agree with your comments about LRCC's suitability. I treat LRCC as "LR Mobile on my laptop" and do get a little value from that. There are obvious issues syncing keywords between Classic and LRCC, such as keyword hierarchy, but I can imagine more than one compromise solution that I would prefer over this decision to fail to sync metadata properly.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Meanwhile I consider to switch from LR CC Classic to LR CC, then all is in sync. I have already bought the 1TB plan, but I would like to have a good backup of all my post processing steps. I mean a catalog similar to LR classic. Last year Victoria mentioned in Adobe forum that there is a local cache. Is this enough as a backup?

[john beardsworth]

No. It's purely a local cache and you can't do anything with it. But maybe start another thread - this is about keywords failing to sync.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Hi John,
thanks for quick answer. Will search if there is a new answer to this question. 
I am aware that this is the Sync thread. The missing sync of keywords or the missing overall sync is the reason why I consider the switch from Classic to CC. Adobe is improving LR CC more and more and meanwhile it is quite good and perhaps a possibility to get rid of all these sync trouble.
🙂
Peter

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

If hierarchical keyword is the problem, I would prefer to have the choice in lightroom classic preferences to use flat keywording, convert all my catalog to flat keyword and then have the ability to sync keyword on CC.

Keywording is typically something you would like to do when taking the train or waiting your sandwich.

[Antoine HLMN]

That « tcechnical » issue was the first explanation why they would not implement keyword sync. Now it’s kind of official the won’t add sync functions to LR Classic, period.