P: Relative Develop Presets would save the day!

[reid_thaler]

Lightroom--I would love to see relative presets as opposed to only absolute presets. For example, I may want to add +10 of yellow in Temperature to what ever setting exists and not a static number.

This would be great for white balancing where pleasing color is preferable over accurate color. I may want to white balance a set of pictures and add +10 of yellow to warm things up.

I find a lot of presets aren’t useful in my workflow, but a relative color temp/tint would be.

Thanks,

Reid

[Marcus-J-T]

The alternative that occurred to me recently is some sort of "Normalize" button which bakes the current global settings into the image while resetting all the slider positions back to zero, thereby letting you use any preset in a relative way.

However, this idea doesn't work cleanly for all settings (e.g. toggles) so may be impractical to implement unless the rule is that only sliders are baked in / normalized.

[Jared Platt]

I wouldn't suggest that as an idea, since it would A) require extra steps and B) would negate the RAW advantage. Never bake anything in if you can avoid it. That's the policy.

[F. McLion]

I'm sorry to say, but you seem to have missed the idea.
This not about baking in developments into RAW.

[John Christian Caldwell]

Relative Presets remain of great interest to me, and have been so since LR2. Please to see the Under Consideration tag.

John Caldwell
Pittsburgh, PA

[John Christian Caldwell]

Right, RAW files are not changed and nothing is baked in outside of Save Metadata for a given RAW file, which you understand "bakes in" nothing.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

Yes please. Still waiting!

[Marcus-J-T]

My language was imprecise.

I don't mean baking the image settings into the image itself, I mean baking them into the data LR stores about the image and uses to render the current view of it, so that the sliders can be reset to zero but the previous settings still applied. This would address the fundamental problem that if a slider is already at 100% there's no way for a "relative" develop preset to increase it, even if it's theoretically possible to go beyond 100% - e.g. with the colour temperature sliders.

Alternatively, maybe those sliders that can go beyond +/- 100% should simply have their range increased to their logical maximum, whatever that may be.

[John Christian Caldwell]

Marcus your use of the term Normalize was easy to understand, and I doubt it was taken to represent the idea of baking anything into a RAW file. Another respondent did feel a Relative Preset would negate the advantages of RAW file use, and appeared to take a Relative Adjustment as making a pixel edit of a file and saving the edited file.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I'd love to be able to do my adjustments, then mark that as a base so any presets applied to a number of photos will all end the same.

An example, I want to use a preset that includes black level adjustment of -10.
I have two photos from different places (ie not bracketed etc).
One of those is under, one is over but I know I want the same look for both.
I adjust blacks, whites, shadows, highlights so the exposures are correct.
I set this as the new "base", as though they were both the perfect exposure
I apply the preset, knowing that the black levels will be adjusted -10 relative to the base, not to the original exposure value, so they'll look the same.

I know there's other ways around this, but one click to set as base would be so easy.

[DonkeyPhotez]

 "Tweak-Sync", additional option request : 
Allow to  sync  "relative tweak-amount" also, not only sync and auto-sync "absolute values".

(John Spacey's post had the same wish :  "Lightroom: Auto Sync: Relative value adjustments"
but I go ahead with my own heading of the post even if the wish is redundant.)

I think such a function would be useful, specifically justifiable to create versions of series (of already seriously, individually edited photos) for say the web, projector, another differently rendering monitor -  sync something that indeed is more something of a final added adaptation, tweaking intervention to a series of copies,  rather than part of serious editing.
(For instance : Add some warmth or contrast or highlights or less red, etc..)

I understand that this could be a voluntarily omitted function because it can (should) admittedly  be qualified as defeating the seriousness LR tools allow.. As a "not a very "serious" approach - and not even possible in many circumstances !
(Then, shall an image -that for instance is already at a maximum setting- be highlighted or ignored ?)

Another problem could be that interventions by 'x' digits might perhaps not translate into linearly perceived repercussion, depending on where on scales they kick-in (and if so, added auto-compensation would definitely conflict Lightroom's integrity).

Still, I think something could be offered along this line, for "conscious" users, it could often be a plus and a time-saver, for when highest quality and puritanism is counterproductive.. 😉  ).

(btw; auto-sync could also be considered kind of "dangerous)

[Jared Platt]

Relative presets and relative sync is something I have been asking for since LR2.  Would be a game changer.  People have been wishing for this for many many many many years.  I add my strong vote!

I would think, Adobe could add a vissual icon on any relative preset and when you add a preset, you simply toggle a checkbox that says "relative" and then you make your preset, but instead of recording the absolute values of the sliders, it looks at the relative change and records that (example: +5 on black) so then when you apply it to an image that has 10 on black slider, it just increases the Black +5 from there.

[BottledLightsPhotography]

I've seen similar ideas pop up every now and then... However, Adobe haven't implemented anything like that yet. My workflow - and that of other photographers I know - starts off with correcting images. For instance, add some exposure to underexposed images, set the white balance for those where it is not accurate, maybe add local adjustments or vignetting effects to those images where I believe it is necessary, reduce noise or sharpen images etc. Now, depending on the presets, (some of) these settings may be gone when applying a preset.

As a workaround, I export the corrected images as 16bit TIFF and reimport them into Lightroom and then apply the appropriate filters. However, this steps requires huge amounts of disk space, time and CPU load.

Thus, I suggest to implement some kind of image "lock" so that presets applied to locked images will be applied on top of existing adjustments. Any other way to add presets relatively instead of absolutely is welcome too.

[Arizona Bev]

A possible problem I see with applying a preset on top of (in addition to) already set Basic Panel settings is that it could easily max out some settings, which could look horrible.  Maybe a way to implement it would be to have a "stack preset" option (stack is probably a bad term to use since it has another meaning in Lr) that, if it's checked, would apply it over existing settings, then have a slider that would allow you to back off on the intensity of the preset as a whole.

[LauraL982001]

I'd Love to see this!  I usually start my workflow making necessary adjustments to get a consistent, uniform "base" between the images I'm working on.  Essentially each "base" has a perfect exposure and white balance and together they have a consistent tone.  Once they all look consistent, I want to make creative edits, but presets in LR don't work easily between images because presets don't take into account the different settings needed to achieve my "base" look.  I usually choose to make my creative edits in photoshop so I can work with a blank slate and keep a consistent look through actions, saved levels and curves.  But I'd love to stay in Lightroom!  I just don't think presets have to be so hard!!  

Seeing this post got my mind going and I came up with a LR world where we can use "Base copies" to implement Relative Adjustments.  A "Base copy" is updated via snapshots to retain the look of the snapshot without affecting adjustment sliders (sliders start at default/zero when created).  

My solution to Relative Develop Presets via "Base Copies"
(complete with fake toolbar buttons and commands):

1.  Make basic edits to original images until all images have desired/consistent look. 

2.  Select all adjusted images and click the option to make base copies for all selected images.  A "Base copy" retains the look of the original image, but the adjustment sliders appear at the default (zeroed out) position when created.  Creating a "Base copy" automatically creates a snapshot for reference.  

3.  Creatively edit one of the "Base copies" using presets or adjusting sliders/tone curve.  Quickly select all other base copies (see details below) and sync as desired.  Syncing only transfers the current values for the selected adjustments (inherited values from the original image will NOT sync).  Essentially a relative adjustment-images should maintain a consistent look because of this feature.

4. There needs to be a way to edit/update "Base copies" once they are created, and snapshots are the perfect way.  So, if an original image (or a virtual copy) is edited after a "Base copy" is made and you want the adjustments to be reflected in the "Base copy", selecting both copies and clicking update from the toolbar will automatically create a new snapshot and apply it to the "Base copy".  The "Base copy" will then have the updated look of the new snapshot, under any new adjustments, and the sliders will not be affected or reset.  You can undo the changes by selecting previous snapshots. 


More Details:
•In order to work well, I think the background of the "Base copy" thumbnails need to be visibly different than the other thumbnails.  So, after selecting as many original images (or virtual copies) as you want "base copies" of, you'll select a pattern for the "Base copy"backgrounds. It could be a dropdown menu in the toolbar with square patterns to choose from: thin diagonal, horizontal and vertical lines; and/or various shades of gray, etc..  You can create multiple "Base copies" for each file, each with a different background trait for quick selecting and sorting.   Instantly select all "Base copies" with a common trait by clicking on the matching pattern in the toolbar.

•As they are now, snapshots would be available for all copies with the same filename (original, "Base" or virtual copies). Selecting a snapshot from a virtual copy duplicates the settings and the look of the snapshot. Selecting a snapshot from a "Base copy", however, would NOT affect any adjustment sliders, and it would inherit the snapshot's look UNDER any additional adjustments applied.  Therefore, using a snapshot to update a "Base copy" that has additional adjustments applied would result in a different look than a virtual copy updated to the same snapshot.

•Syncing  would remain the same as now: all selected settings are synced from the initial image and changes are reflected in the adjustment slider values of the remaining selected images.  The values that are synced are the ones reflected by adjustment sliders.  Even though a "Base copy" retains settings from its original, it will only sync it's current slider values to another image.

•Presets would be applied the same as they are now (except they would finally work).  When applied, all adjustments sliders would reflect the values of the preset when saved.  

Sample Scenario:
1) Edit Original copy:
White Balance: temp: 4900, tint: -13
Exposure: +.30
Highlights: -40
Whites:  +10
Blacks: -10
Tone Curve: Custom preset called "Lift Mids"

2) Create a "BASE copy" (original copy's settings retained, but the sliders begin at zero).  A snapshot is automatically created as a reference point.  

3) Apply a B&W preset to "BASE copy":
WB: Temp: 28,000; Tint: -55
Contrast: +20
Shadows: +70
Blacks: -41
Tone Curve: Preset called "BW Clipping"

4)  Let's say you realize you need to bump up the temp +500 for an image to maintain consistency.  You could adjust the "Base copy", but you want to change it on the original copy so that it can be reflected in other "base copies" you may make for that image.  You go back to the original copy, add +500 temp; and create and name a new snapshot.  Select the original and the "Base copy", and click update button in the toolbar to create a new snapshot and update the look of the "Base copy."  The update will appear UNDER the existing adjustments, without affecting the current WB slider values (ex: Temp still= 28,000, even though you just added 500 to it via the snapshot).  

5)  Select all your "Base copies" and sync the desired settings!  While you're at it, create a preset to use for the next batch of pictures.  The chances of it working just went up exponentially (or something like that)!

This could make presets so much more useful and editing more efficient!!  And fun!  I wish I could implement it myself...

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

This is a known issue with the Color blending mode, and some others, as well. If you click on Legacy Compositing in Preferences> Performance, it should clear it up. It has for me, anyway.

[KurtlesATX]

Hmm.. for some reason I couldn't find that option under performance. But it seems to be working for now. Thank you for the reply.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I have also problems with merging transparant layers, It looks like the video processor have a problem. Strange blocks on the image. If the psd image is opened in an older photoshop, and the layer is switched on and off, then it is gone.

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

I know this request is old, but I'd still love to see this feature realized!

[Earth Oliver]

Layers in Lightroom would solve all these requests. Adding a new layer at say +1 exposure is an adjustment relative to the base adj. Unfortunately the devs are 100% against adding "complexity" to Lr. Bummer.

[Earth Oliver]

Eight years later and this feature is still desperately desired. 

[FeedbackCommunityMember]

So sad our simple request fallen on dead ears all these years. What's the best alternative plug-in right now for this?

[Earth Oliver]

Basically what you want is layers (vertical snapshots, instead of horizontal). Unfortunately, the devs appear 100% not-interested in ever implementing this feature.

[Bob Somrak]

You can already do this "layer" technique for +1 exposure for example by using a graduated filter that covers the whole photo and then apply a +1 exposure as a "local adjustment" that covers the whole photo.  Then copy the grad filter to the other photos.  

[Virgil at Convincible]

Many images in a set may all have different adjustments for contrast, exposure, temperature, etc.

I would like to then be able to say e.g. "Add +0.1 exposure" to one or more selected images. So it will take whatever the current value is for each image, and add the relative adjustment.

This is useful if, for instance, initial edits have normalised the photos (e.g. made them all look consistently exposed), but then I realise actually I want them all to be a bit more exposed. Or, for instance, we can start by normalising white balance to neutral, and then decide that we want to colour the whole set of images slightly more warmly.

[Earth Oliver]

for now, you can get around this by adding an offscreen gradient layer and adding your changes there. Then sync local across your images. It's really unintuitive, but until Adobe decides to finally implement this as a feature, it's all we have.