Any Tips Or Advice For Filming With Green Screen?

[Sockratease]

I'm about to start my very first project "filming" with a green screen!

Being that I've never done this myself from start to finish before, I'd appreciate any advice the seasoned pros here may have to offer.

I have the CS6 Master Suite and, if the moderators see fit, this can be moved to either the Premiere Pro or After Effects forum once it is decided which software does better with this type of project  (I really don't know and would have chosen one or the other, but since this is a question about setting things up for filming more than the techniques of editing - it goes here in The Lounge for now!).

I know that the screen should be "drawn tight" with no wrinkles, and that it should be as evenly lit as possible with no shadows falling on it.  And I know that, ideally, there should be nothing else green in the scene.  But something told me to ask here for advice since I have a week or 2 before actual recording takes place.

What else should I take into consideration while setting up the recording area?

If it matters, we'll be using a camcorder which is relatively high end, but not "Pro" quality.  It's just for a website video, so probably no more than 1080 pixels wide for final version, with lower resolution versions for phones and tablets  (natively records at 1440 pixels).

Thanks for any input anyone may have!  Having never done this before, anything beyond what I stated for preparing will be greatly appreciated.

[Ussnorway]

is a person going to be in the film or just models like star trek | cars etc?

[Sockratease]

It will have one person giving a lecture. We planned on having him about 1/3 of the way from the edge of the screen, with about 2/3 available for supporting visuals, charts, and that sort of thing.  He won't be moving around a lot in front of it, but very likely some of that will take place  (with an effort to keep it minimized for the first effort).

I was planning some experiments this weekend with varying the distance between the subject and the screen to see if it works better near or far.

I've not yet found any beginner tips for this, only more advanced stuff like special gels you can buy to smear on your green screen to make it "cleaner"  {I'm not even sure what that would mean, but I'll catch on with experience}.

Oh yeah - the screen is a light weight material which I've had stored for years.  It came with Pinnacle Studio video editor software in a box which also had a converter to allow you to plug your VCR into your computer.  And the CD with what was my very first Video Editor  (unless you want to count VirtualDub)  (But I digress...)

I planned on wrapping the cloth around a big piece of plywood or cardboard or something to help keep it flat.

Thanks for the reply.  I hadn't considered that there may be different techniques for things like people vs props/models.  My own passion is Stop Motion Animation and was planning on trying it with that after this project by making an excuse to borrow the camera, so I appreciate you pointing that out to me.

[Nancy OShea · Accepted solution]

Good lighting, good lighting, good lighting.  Super important.

http://tubularinsights.com/7-tips-set-up-professional-green-screen/

https://www.videomaker.com/videonews/2013/11/5-green-screen-tips-to-make-your-project-stand-out

Green Screen Tips — PinnacleStudioPro

Nancy

[Sockratease]

Nancy OShea wrote:

Good lighting, good lighting, good lighting. Super important.

http://tubularinsights.com/7-tips-set-up-professional-green-screen/

https://www.videomaker.com/videonews/2013/11/5-green-screen-tips-to-make-your-project-stan d-out

Green Screen Tips — PinnacleStudioPro

Nancy

Thanks Nancy!  I had seen one of those links before while doing my "before asking research", but the other 2 were new to me 

But yeah, everyone agrees that even lighting is the big key here.

Nice that my green screen came as a "bonus" with a Pinnacle Studio video editor and they have a decent article on the subject.

[Ussnorway]

Sockratease wrote:

special gels you can buy to smear on your green screen to make it "cleaner" {I'm not even sure what that would mean, but I'll catch on with experience}.

I hadn't considered that there may be different techniques for things like people vs props/models.

you only need gels if the screen is for models ime... a human acter standing in front of a green screen with good lighting (no shadows) and no green clothes should be fine for standard billboard work.

if you only have the one camera then I would have the actor sit or at least stand on a clear mark

p.s, with all due respect to Adobe I would use iclone for this kind of thing as that is what the tool was made for but both software require you to make your actor (billboard i.e, face the camera) video first

[Sockratease]

Ussnorway wrote:

Sockratease wrote:

special gels you can buy to smear on your green screen to make it "cleaner" {I'm not even sure what that would mean, but I'll catch on with experience}.

I hadn't considered that there may be different techniques for things like people vs props/models.

you only need gels if the screen is for models ime... a human acter standing in front of a green screen with good lighting (no shadows) and no green clothes should be fine for standard billboard work...

Again, yup!  I read more on these gels and for the most part they seem to be for your lights, and not the screen.  Most often a magenta gel for lighting the subject from behind (not pointing near the screen) because it gives maximum contrast with green and helps define edges more sharply for keying.

I don't have a copy of iClone, but it is popular in the 3D Art circles I frequent.  I may give it a try if time allows (I know my Adobe stuff but not sure about the learning curve on iClone and am on a schedule).

Looking forward to seeing what I can do with this stuff.

[John T Smith]

Do you think it is time to move this to the Premiere Pro forum where you are likely to get more answers?

[Sockratease]

If you think it's OK, sure.

I avoided posting this in a Software Specific section since it is not about any adobe product, but more about filming techniques.

However, if you think it's OK, and if you think it will get more replies without being accused of being in the wrong section, then yes.  Feel free to move it to either the Premiere Pro forum, or the After Effects forum.  Whichever software handles this sort of thing better,

I personally have more experience with After Effects because I found it's interface more to my liking than Premiere.  My Old Hippy Dyslexic Brain finds something about Premiere's interface keeps confusing me and slowing me down trying to find stuff  (despite the tutorials I followed on it).  But if one is markedly better than the other, then of course the better performing software is the way to go!  I'll adapt as needed.

[John T Smith]

You mention "filming" not "post production" so I would think PPro where filming is done would get you more answers

How about this... I will move this to the PPro forum, and then you start a new discussion in After Effects... with your first line being a link to the PPro discussion so people will be able to read what has already been written

Is that OK with you?

[Sockratease]

John T Smith wrote:

You mention "filming" not "post production" so I would think PPro where filming is done would get you more answers

How about this... I will move this to the PPro forum, and then you start a new discussion in After Effects... with your first line being a link to the PPro discussion so people will be able to read what has already been written

Is that OK with you?

Sounds good.  I thought both After Effects and Premiere Pro were "Post Production" type software, and therefore this discussion belonged in neither.  But I'm new to these forums, so whatever you think best is fine with me.

I put "filming" in quotes because the semantics always amused me ever since I first felt old when I heard a kid say something about somebody still "taping on film" when I always thought about modern stuff as "filming on tape" - that sort of thing amuses me.  But I am easily amused.

[R Neil Haugen]

Shooternz's comments are dead-on. I'm from a 38 year career as a studio portrait photographer, having used white sweep backgrounds that, like green-screen work, MUST have a very tight tolerance of light for both even-ness across the entire background and contrast relationship to the light on the subject. If you are off 1/2 stop, it's recoverable. Off a full stop or more ... reshoot.

In my experience, two-stops of light difference between the subject and green-screen is indeed optimal. Measure with a light meter pointed toward the main light striking the subject, and the same meter held in many places right against the screen. You can start by lighting the screen evenly then putting two-stops more on the subject, or by figuring out your subject lighting and doing two stops less on the screen. Just make sure every part of the screen is within say .2 of a stop of everywhere else on the screen.

Lights bounced off large white panels off the set on either side back toward the screen that give a soft rim-lighting on the subject as shooternz also suggested can save you HOURS of post-work in trying mask controls & cleaning up bits of green in hair and clothing. Yes, it's absolutely worth the time & effort to get those panels and lights! Measured by the same light-meter, those should 'touch' the edges of your talent between 1.5 and 2 stops less than the measured main light.

And 8-10 feet difference is good. If you're going to be filling in other material to the say, right side ... you might need to shoot "closer" to the subject than allows for enough room for your additional post-introduced material, then "shrink" the talent on-screen and slide to the left just a bit, to allow room for the rest of the image. Personally, I prefer that over having the talent closer to the green-screen to save space to fill in area that you're going to wipe out in post anyway.

And ... TEST! Your mileage will vary!

Neil

[chrisw44157881]

light the greenscreen and see if your vectorscope target is dead in line 60% to green box. There should be no deviation along this line. If there is, you don't have even lighting. Also, your green ire should be lower than you think, exposing green at its native luminance, 49 ire luma, 55 ire chroma.

lighting greenscreen video with a vectorscope and waveform monitor

5 Secret Tips For Getting Hollywood-Level Chroma Keys - YouTube

what clothes to not wear

Tutorial on Cinematography - How Cinematographers Read Vector Scopes - YouTube

[shooternz]

You appear to know some of the basics of green screen shooting

Flat even lighting of the screen

As much distance from the screen for the subject as possible - eg  your person / subject at 8 to 10 feet

Too which I will add...

Correct color balance of the camera and light. ie dont used mixed light sources and color temp settings on the camera.

Exposure - the green screen should not be over lit.  Two stops under the subject is kind of optimal. Too bright creates bounce of the green and therefore fringing on the subject.

Backlight - place soft or bounce lights behind the subject to create soft rim lighting. This creates a nice contour and kls the bounce of the green screen.   2 large sheets of polystyrene placed at 3/4 each side... set in close works well.

Best thing you said...you are testing.  Good on you.

[Sockratease]

My thanks to R Neil Haugen, chrisw44157881, and shooternz for all the great advice!

Being my first effort, and being "work for hire" (not a personal project, but trying to help another and get paid for it) the  budget is not under my control   

I'll see what I can get my client to invest in, but doubt it will go as far as a light meter - however some large white panels should be manageable!

I obviously have a lot to learn since I never used a vectorscope or waveform monitor and a few other "professional terms" from the replies sent me scrambling to look them up!  Being self taught means I have more than a few gaping holes in my knowledge.  But I do know how to research stuff, and it seems there is much for me to absorb before I can get really good at this.

It's a skill set well worth developing though, so I'll run some more tests  (first run was OK, but not quite good enough).

Thanks again to all for their input.

I'll post back later with some results and quite possibly some more questions!

[excited_Genie16B8]

I didn't read the responses from others, so this may have already been covered.  But the most important tip you will receive is:

1. Test it first.  Set it up, shoot something, key it out.  Observe the results.  Repeat with corrections if necessary.  Do not move forward on the paid project until you're confident you can do it.

[Sockratease]

Jim_Simon wrote:

I didn't read the responses from others, so this may have already been covered. But the most important tip you will receive is:

1. Test it first. Set it up, shoot something, key it out. Observe the results. Repeat with corrections if necessary. Do not move forward on the paid project until you're confident you can do it.

I appreciate the advice, and have had a foolproof back up plan in place from Day 1!

He knows this may be problematic, but wants to try.  It's a lecture with animated graphs and charts (plus some infographics and a bit of my own animation) explaining his points. My back up plan is to simply sidestep the entire thing by shooting things set up such that a blank green "board" is on one side very near the edge, and have the speaker on the other edge, or near it.  Then a simple mask will work and the entire effort can still be done, just not as fancy as originally desired.  He wants to point at things on his graphs and such, but we already agreed that if this becomes a huge problem we can use animated pointers.

My philosophy on this is simply to do my best trying for something possibly beyond my abilities, but still be able to produce a polished product regardless of the success or failure of the "best case" scenario.

If you never reach beyond your current skill set, you'll never grow!

I am lucky to have a client who understands this and is willing to work with me, knowing all possible outcomes before we start.

[excited_Genie16B8]

If you never reach beyond your current skill set, you'll never grow!

Oh, definitely.  You just don't want to reach with a paying client (at least, not without that foolproof backup plan ).

Another way to put it might be, never promise what you have never done.

[Sockratease]

Jim_Simon wrote:

If you never reach beyond your current skill set, you'll never grow!

Oh, definitely. You just don't want to reach with a paying client (at least, not without that foolproof backup plan ).

Another way to put it might be, never promise what you have never done.

Totally agree!

In this case there was full disclosure that I'm experimenting with his idea for this, I've never done it before, and am not sure I can pull it off professionally.

So I never promised anything other than to try my best!  And it helps that this is a long standing client, so we know each other and he knows that if I say I may not be able to do a thing but will try, a wholehearted effort will be made, but either way we'll keep the schedule and get a product finished for him to approve, or suggest editing changes to, on our agreed upon date.

[excited_Genie16B8]

there was full disclosure that I'm experimenting with his idea for this, I've never done it before, and am not sure I can pull it off professionally.

this is a long standing client and he knows that a wholehearted effort will be made, but either way we'll keep the schedule and get a product finished for him to approve, or suggest editing changes to, on our agreed upon date.

Quite reasonable.

[shooternz]

Oh, definitely.  You just don't want to reach with a paying client (at least, not without that foolproof backup plan ).

Another way to put it might be, never promise what you have never done.

Hate to admit how many times I have put myself in both these positions. Never failed to deliver though.

"Its only kinky the first time"

[excited_Genie16B8]

I have put myself in both these positions.

I think many people have.  Not all have been as lucky.  Hence the advice.

[shooternz]

My back up plan is to simply sidestep the entire thing by shooting things set up such that a blank green "board" is on one side very near the edge, and have the speaker on the other edge, or near it.  Then a simple mask will work and the entire effort can still be done, just not as fancy as originally desired.

If you do decide to go to Plan B...you wont need the blank green board or a mask for that matter.  Just super your media in  - picture in picture.  You obviously need a covering background and also some idea how you will compose the frame and when.

Green screen is far cooler and easier to manage though.  Go for it. Its easy. BTW - ths is the only way I will ever shoot anything that involves "Power Point.  I never ever live shoot them.

1. You can shoot the subject centre frame for everything  and then move him / her across when ever you need to  allow composition room.

2. You can have interesting stuff happening behind the subject.

3. Flexibility for the shoot and the  edit. ie you dont need to script it to allow the framing variations.

LIGHT Meter - get one in your smart phone.  Get a reflected reading off the subjects face and one off the lit BG.

You want the BG to be lower exposure  than the face.  Adjust lighting levels  to achieve this balance.  Once sorted use the camera to expose the scene (NOTR ON AUTO though - get exposure and lock it off)

[Sockratease]

Thanks again for the advice.

shooternz wrote:

LIGHT Meter - get one in your smart phone...

I'll keep that in mind if I ever get a smart phone!  I still use a 10 year old dumb phone!

[R Neil Haugen]

There are used light-meters available everywhere for very "modest" amounts of money.  Sekonics are very good, as are many others. To get the most accurate measurement of light falling on a subject from a source, the flat disc is better than the dome, as it doesn't do as much 'averaging'. I did enough lab work with film/printing to know 'averaging' means your highlights could be anywhere. Measured with the flat disc (or dome in the recessed position) your highlights match shot to shot.

If you've multiple lights on the front of the subject, measure them individually and set the contrast to what you want. Typically 1.5 stops for "average" contrast, 2 stops for a bit more dramatic, and 2.5-3 stops for rather dramatic. Then meter the brightest one to determine base exposure.

Inexpensive, practice it a bit including taking the media into your NLE, watch the scopes. Adjust the meter's calibration settings to get best highlight control when your media pops into the scopes. Once that's done, it takes just a couple minutes to meter a scene and you KNOW you'll have usable media.

Also, for a few dollars more, there are a number of small external monitors that have zebra, false color, that sort of thing. I've found that false color, which gives each part of the exposure spectrum a different color, makes it very easy to see where your whites ... blacks ... over-brights ... and mid-tones are. Another option.

Neil