Audio Out of Sync - Why and How to Correct

[martinv2012]

I nested two 90 minute clips from 2 separate cameras which were both shot in AVCHD. I am using Premiere CS 5.5 . As a former FCP editor, whenever audio went out of sync, a message in FCP came up immediately and told you the audio was out of sync and it was an easy fix. How come Premiere is minus such an important feature?

I shoot stage productions where there may be music but no dialogue so chercking sync becomes rather difficult. After finishing a 2 hour video, I found the audio was out of sync in the nested sequences. Is there any way to auto resync the audio automatically?

Seems to me that Premiere Pro is a sub Pro App if simple audio sync is so hard to maintain in nested sequences. Makes nesting a sequence a waste of time if you have to redo the edit as a reslut of audio out of sync.

[nickdbomb]

GrraphiteGal,  As I remember you mentioned updating to 3 but could not afford it leading me to think you were own CS6 and wanted to upgrade to 6.0.3. Looking back, your message 45, have you  edited it because it no longer mentions updating.  As for me, the cloud has a few nice features but is not at all nessasary nor would it make me "happy" to increase my software budget 3 times to use it.  I will not be migrating to it unless my modest project workflow has a steady demand for the few minor improvements the cloud version offers.

[GraphiteGal636]

I'm sorry Nickdbomb, i haven't edited anything or mentioned anything about upgrading.  Think you could be getting mixed up.  The latest version I used was CS6 but that was through Cloud and it updated automatically.

I really don't know where you have got that from.

That is obviously your choice to make.  I had fewer options and for me that it the best one at the moment.   There are people very happy with the changes made to Adobe software and the way in which the Cloud offers updates as an ongoing thing throughout the 12 month contract and people like you who disagree.  That is fine.  All I would say is that maybe Adobe should not have been so fast to dump "actual" software and force people onto the Cloud based system.  However, little you or I can do about it, so I just get on with it.

[nickdbomb]

TMZ

You must be more specific on your configuration before anyone will take your request seriously and provide any useful help.

Video  file format?

"A MOTHER OF A VIDEO EDITING CARD"? 

What GPU are you using? How much memory does it have? Is the mercury engine active?

Intel P? 

What CPU are you using?

What tranfer protocal are you using for the 30 TB of storage? USB 2.0 or 3.0, eSATA, NAS, Firewire, SCSI, Thunerbolt?

Is this a custom system or of the self computer? desktop? Laptop?

[shooternz]

Yes the original timeline is fine up to about 1/3 into the video

So you are actually saying that original edit sequence goes out of synch after 1/3.

(ie. 1 camera with continuous single stream of  video/ audio is OOS. after 1/3 progress and assumeably the other camera is doing exactly the same thing)

That means the multicam nest will be out as well.

What camera, what codec, what project setings?

[martinv2012]

Cam 1 Panasonic Ag Ac130 Cam 2 Canon XA10 both shot in AVCHD max settings ,Sequence settings 1080i/30

[shooternz]

1080i  ...not a progressive project setting? Did you match the project to the source footage?  (How?)

Have you actually confirmed (to us forum readers) that the original sequence from either or both cameras is in synch all the way thru?

Was it a continuous camera roll on each camera or have you edited it from stop start source footage?

[martinv2012]

Yes shooternz, I went back and checked the original footage from both cams and played back in the source Monitor they are in sync. Where there is a speech at the end of the video the lips are in sync.The Sequence settings was taken from the footage, I did not specify the seetings but let Premiere set it up based on the Properties of the cam footage files.

The footage for both cams was continuous roll for 2 hours without a stop.

[martinv2012]

One more thing shooternz and the rest of this forum's viewers. If Adobe or any company puts a product out their for sale, it should work as advertised. Car manufacturers do not get a free ride if one of their vehicle models has an inherrent problem that causes accidents such as the exploding Ford Pinto or more recently the gas peddle problem with Toyota cars. As far as I am concerned if Adobe or Apple puts a product on the market (especially if it is advertised as a Pro App), then we the consumers should have zero tolerance for errors, bugs or problems. Our jobs are to edit not trouble shoot the product. I can see if the user is not familiar with the product but as some one in the Encore forum told me ,"Encore is a buggy App". Well Adobe FIX THE PROBLEM. How about every time a certified bug is found in the program, Adobe refunds every user $10 (and that is being conservative). If one of my videos has a problem because of a bug in the program I stand to lose more then $10.

How about it Adobe Techs - can anyone deduce why nested audio goes out of sync without warning?

[shooternz]

Its always interesting when some one has an issue and others dont chime in and say ....."me too"., "me too"...me as well"

Maybe they will do this yet... but mean time you are on your own.  (hmmmm) 

Your rants arent helping anyone trouble shoot this with you.

Now...it is possible that you have run into a spanned clips known issue due to the long recording time.  I am not sure where that is at the moment.  Do a search.

How much OOS is the footage at the end of each camera anyway?

Tell us what happens if you swap  the audio from one camera to the other in the timeline?  Try to establish consistency in the recording against the video.

[Jim_Simon]

How about it Adobe Techs - can anyone deduce why nested audio goes out of sync without warning?

Well...they never have for me.  Your situation is certainly not the norm.

[martinv2012]

That may be but what puzzles me Jim, is that Premiere did not give me a warning and the ability to correct the misaligned audio with the nested sequence. In FCP not only is there a red flag but it tells you how many frames or seconds you are misaligned by. A right click on either the video or audio gives you the option to slip them into alignment. There doesn't appear to be any comparable ability in Premiere. There are a few things Premiere does have that surpasses FCP, especially in the titling, but this sync issue is a major one.

I did not nest the audio tracks when I nested the video since I wasn't sure which audio track I preferred i.e. Cam #1 or Cam #2. Would that have made a difference? Is there any way to have a default transition applied in a nested sequence so that one can cross fade from one clip to another? In FCP you can right click on a cut and apply a default cross fade for either video or audio.

Although some of my posts may seem to be bashing Adobe, I believe that products should work as advertised. It is one thing to ask for info if one is unfamiliar with an app, it is another for an app to lack key editing features or contain a bug in the programming.

[shooternz]

I am more and more convinced that unfamiliarity with PPRO (understandeable as a new user)  and general editing experience is playing a part in  your issue.

This here below  makes no sense and remains unanswered no matter what I ask...or suggest!

The audio and video was in sync, that is why the first 1/3 of the edit was fine. It was nesting that caused the sync issue.

Example

Tell us what happens if you swap  the audio from one camera to the other in the timeline?  Try to establish consistency in the recording against the video.

[Jim_Simon]

what puzzles me Jim, is that Premiere did not give me a warning

That's because what you're seeing is not normal program operation.  It's a glitch in your system, or with your media, or with your sequence, or with your project.

When things go out of sync in a normal fashion, PP does give you the indicator

[martinv2012]

I'll let you know if I see it. Right now I am editng the FCP way. Using Razor tool I cut my in point and out point on the Video 1 & 2 layers and audio layers then select those segments hit delete then ripple delete. This way I am assured the audio is in sync and not subject to the quirks of the Nesting option.

[josephs51576386]

I edit multicam constantly in Premiere using AVCHD files and haven't ever experinced the issue you desribe. Very Interesting

[jabra27]

After reading this entire post, I still don't see the answer from martinv2012 about the original sequence.

Is the original sequence in sync all the way through? Meaning, if you go to the last 10 seconds of the original sequence, is the audio in sync or out.

If you are here to ask for help on an issue, please give the information asked for.

Also, (this is really starting to bug me) stop comparing PPro to FCP! Premier is not perfect, I can admit that since I've been using it for the last 6 years. However, I can also say that Final Cut Pro is not perfect either, since I used it for 4 years.

If you think FCP was/is the superior product, why are you here? Go back to what you like. Otherwise, ask your questions to find the answers to what you don't understand, and realize that Premier Pro is NOT FCP and accept the differences.

[SimonHy]

martinv2012 wrote:

The audio and video was in sync, that is why the first 1/3 of the edit was fine. It was nesting that caused the sync issue.

Listen shooternz, I expect video editing software to work correctly 100% of the time. I am not a software engineer and should not have to trouble shoot the app. If you bought a TV set would you expect it to work 100% of the time? You wouldn't try to open the set and fix it. I paid for video editing software and I expect it to work correctly 100% of the time.

I edited with FCP for many years, and thought it was a great piece of software, but the idea that it was 100% bug free is utterly ridiculous!

When you say that the audio doesn't show as being out of sync, are you looking at the nested sequence in your cut timeline, or WITHIN the nested sequence? Because if you move something within the nest you have to look inside it to see it, the nest itself won't show whether audio is in or out of sync.

[fsuarez]

I've had issues with nested comps before.

Im not sure if this is a bug in PPRO or not, but I have had this problem occur on and off.  After some troubleshooting, I found a workaround that worked for me in my specific situation.

It seems when you NEST audio files not linked to video files (it may happen even if they are linked, but I have not tried it), PPRO will replace your clips with the nested composition but will offset the time.  Let me give you an example to illustrate.

Say I have have audio clips that start at 10 seconds into my sequence and I nest them.  PPRO will nest them and show me the nested comp starting at 10 seconds, but it will really not play there, it starts to play exactly 10 seconds later.  Solution? Drag my nested composition back to 0 in the timeline.  Again this worked for me and it may be a work around.

If Im doing something incorrectly, please someone point it out.

Thanks.

[martinv2012]

Hi Frank,

I saw your post just as I was checking a DVD I edited 5 months ago. I used the Nest tool in PPro and good thing I checked the DVD before duplication as half way through the video, the audio was out of sync. This was another example of what I originally posted.  There should not be, I REPEAT FOR THE ADOBE STAFF, "SHOULD NOT BE" THE NEED FOR WORK AROUNDS, PERIOD.

Those who comment " well it could be your system, your set up, etc" STOP DEFENDING A FLAW IN THE SOFTWARE. Would you buy a car that catches on fire when you start it up? I think not. The reason FCP became the leading software for 80% of the editing houses out there was its consistency and smooth workflow. If Adobe wants the same market share, they should examine the problem determine the causes and then inform the user as to work arounds and updates and fixes for this problem. It is not the job of the customer to fix the product. Jason, I appreciate your comments. Apple sank FCP because they make more $$$ from iPhones and iPads.

Fixing the software is not our job. Editing is our job. This forum should be for an exchange of ideas and help from other users. BUT, when an issue arises and is confirmed by other users, the Adobe staff should jump on it within a week at the most. We should not be referred to their library of instructions on how to use PPro as a solution.

I like PPro for the most part. If some one had referred me to an exact cause of the audio problem and I was able to see it and correct my timeline, then no problem.

BTW Jason the audio goes out of sync about half way through the Timeline in the affected projects. Also, Simon, I realized that if I adjusted a nested part of the timeline the audio would go out of sync. My process was to sync up two cameras (2 layers of video and audio) then followed the Adobe Help instructions to nest them. Once done. I simply cut back and forth between shots in the Nested Sequence Window. Nothing else was done to the Timeline or the Nested components.

Shooternz, guess some one else chimed in.

[panelist]

Hey Martin,

I totally agree with you that the software should just work, independent of someone's system!  I just started a small corporate documentary project and found your post while trying to figure out how to solve this mysterious sync problem.  I don't have any nested sequences; just multiple clips of talking heads, some of which have literally randomly out-of-sync audio/video.

Finding no solution in the software for troubleshooting this problem, I have resorted to manually un-linking the audio and video of clips, manually sync-ing the video to the audio by eye, and then re-linking them.  This was the first time I saw the +/- indicator Mr Jim Simon spoke of, because it's now showing me how out-of-sync I have MANUALLY made them, which is not the problem!  I KNOW how out of sync they are, NOW...!

Sorry to sound like I'm shouting, I'm just frustrated that I've had to spend so much time futzing with this when I could have been further along in the project by now.  Martin, I just wanted to say that it is not your system and your problem is not unique.

-Paul

[tmztv1960]

Hello Everyone,

Has anyone found a solution to this BUG?

This happens to me all the time with Adobe Premier CS6.

It is an obvious Software BUG that needs to be corrected. I am a TV show editor.

I have had this happen to me 4 different times. You don't have to do anything special. The video with sound runs perfectly with any other product on your computer..but goes out of sync in Premier. I have tried cleaning up the Media Cache .cfa and .pek waveforms. No joy. I have tried relinking the media. No joy. I have tried moving the project and renaming and relinking. No joy. Rendering No joy. Setting the media cache to local area. No joy.

If this had happened to me just once, I would say, I have done something wrong. It has happened now in 4 different projects on four different shows. I have produced and released over 100 shows to TV.

I have checked everything, I have reloaded footage off camera. I have checked and bought new cables. I have checked codecs, frame rates, loaded into other products. All fine. I just wish Adobe engineers would do this same type of debugging of their software.

I use to work for Hewlett Packard Software division.  We were taught to alfa test, beta test and not release until bug rates

were at certain levels. Some bugs just have get through or you never get to release. But this bug really hits your productivity in a major way. You have to resync BY HAND each cut... all your sound after hours and days and weeks of getting it perfect. Then in a split second. FFFFDDDDDDDDD

I have been editing with Premier for 6 years.... It only seems to be since I have upgraded to CS6.  And I have to re-link by hand to correct the problem.  I sync on electronic clapper board number and sound - almost impossibe not to sync. I will be working away happily, cut out some footage go to my next grab..BANG out of sync. That simple.

All I know is that it happens and for ADOBE to really be a true professional editing suite in the the TV/Movie world.... This is just not on. By any chance have they released a patch or bug fix to repair this. I have spent over 3 weeks edting a television show again .......needing to go to air in less than three weeks and all of a sudden between one cut and delete.. the sound is out of sync across the whole interview. JUST NOT ON. I have spent 4 hours now..none productive hours trying to resync the sound, find solutions on the website via forums. Some ideas have been really good and I have tried them. None have worked. Still unsynced. Almost completed show I now have to re-sync by hand. At this point, I am thinking FCP is looking good. I cannot stand this loss of productivity and time. 

This is not the only forum complaining about this..that should tell you something.

[martinv2012]

Again thanks tmztv and the rest of you. I thought I was a bit of an amateur having this problem. Nice to know it's the product not me.

[Jim_Simon]

I don't know if Adobe even has this logged as a bug.  It's not a problem I'm seeing from a great many people.  It's also not a problem I'm able to reproduce with my own footage.

If anyone cares to upload some problem footage and post the steps taken to cause the error, I can test here.

https://www.depositfiles.com/uploader_flash.html

[tmztv1960]

Happy to when I get this series finished..I am have three more shows to go. I have lots of information from web for potential work arounds, but

So far no joy. So in September, I will pack up some samples and shoot them to you. It has happened to me about 4 different times now in four different projects.

[nickdbomb]

I've had intermittent synch issues when editing MPEG4 video within nested sequences. They were not multicam related. My solution was to rebuild the sequence without nesting.  At times I deleted the file I had imported onto my RAID and replaced it with my back-up from my archive and this solved some issues.

Are you running 6.0.3?  After I updated to this most of the bug issues like the one above were solved? I own my software but have heard that pirated versions of CS6 are not stable.

Adobe can't ask you to solve software bug but you do need to have someone qualified to set-up and maintain a smooth running editing workflow. Premiere Pro CS6 needs a properly configured fast system .

I am not saying you have a hardware issue but I have had some quirky issues when I did not have my system configured correctly. Especially with AVCHD, your configuration is very important. When setup correctly my system is amazing. This is a good document to read about optimizing your editing system.

http://www.adobe.com/content/dam/Adobe/en/products/creativesuite/production/cs6/pdfs/adobe-hardware-... 

In in order of importance:

8GB RAM minimum

1 system drive with ONLY the Adobe applications. (No Media, No cache)

1 Fast RAID for Video and Audio. Minimum 2 drives striped RAID 0 internal or external using a protocol USB 3.0 or Thunderbolt.

     TIP: I use a 2 drive external RAID USB 3.0 drive for A / V and store my program file on a SDHC card so I can swap them from my desktop to my laptop when I need to edit in a clients location. I have a much better graphics card on the desktop so After Effects is much faster but the quad i7 laptop works well for rough cuts, minor effects and simple graphics.

Optional: Add another drive for cache files. I noticed an improvement in response by using an internal drive on my desktop and a USB 3.0 drive flash memory drive on my laptop.

There was a noticeable improvement in the interface response time when I switched the dick drive on my desktop to a SSD. My laptop is OK with a spinning 7200 RPM disk.