BUG: Use Previews....Doesn't Use Previews.

[Scott.C.]

This workflow has been broken for a long time and I would really love to fix this one. I know this used to be on uservoice but I can't find the old bug. 

Steps:

1. Set sequence preview file to "Apple ProRes 422HQ" or whatever your favorite is. 

2. Render Sequence to full green.

3. Go to Export, Select an H.264 preset, check "use previews"

4. Watch as PrPro doesn't acess a single preview on disk and instead renders the whole timeline from scratch. 

From my current example I have a .png sequence from blender than I've rendered to green in the timeline.

Export->H.264, use previews checked...

Look at windows resource monitor, why is premiere chewing up PNGs when it should just be referencing the preview files I JUST RENDERED. 

.aecache files being acessed for no reason. 

.png sequence being read. WHY. 

[IanB_360]

Hey Adobe Community friends, here is a note on the "Use previews" option from our devs. It will work just as long as the codec you choose to make preview files matches your export files codec. So Apples to Apples and H264s to H264s. Please see below explanation on how this feature works. Thank you for your patience and sorry for any frustrations with lack of responses.

Ian

Detailed Description

"Use Previews" will only export with rendered preview files in the following cases:

• "Match sequence preview settings" is the selected preset, which automatically enables the "Use Previews" checkbox
• "Use Previews" is enabled and the export Format & Codec matches the sequence's preview codec setting

If you enable "Use Previews" when export & preview codecs do not match, rendered preview files are ignored and files are exported from the original source media.

[Path 88 Productions]

Nope.  Just to let you know, it's still not working for me.  Using 3rd party plug-ins = non-functional.  Should just spit out a file quickly from compiled previews, but it absolutely re-rendering.  And since I'm using intense plug-ins, it takes a really long time.

FYI, I've used this "Use Previews" function in the past and it's worked fine.  My sequences are set up to use AppleProRes422 and that's the thing I also want on export.  Many of us understand the theory and practice of the "Use Previews" feature.  We're not new users misundersatading the concept here.  It's rather easy to recognize and identify that it's not working as intended.

[Shebbe]

It's really sad to read this confirmation that development and/or management seemingly don't give an F about this feature. This functionality was actually working many versions ago and I've used it extensively before it broke to do tons of ProRes4444 preview -> h.264 exports. The render times were significantly faster if the timeline was already rendered, than full re-rendering. Actually akin to just converting video as was expected with this function.

Why is this not simply being adressed? Are you hiding something from us? It feels like for some reason there is a technical limitation that can't be fixed which is now being shoved under the subtle 'deal with it' response we have. I hope to be proven wrong and still hope that this 'feature' will actually become a useful feature allowing to use previews in any format and re-use them on export regardless of export settings. It should be up to the editors choice to utilize it in that way, not restricted by the developers/software. I can't think of any reason any editor needs it in it's current working fashion.

[R Neil Haugen]

While I'm as disappointed as anyone in this thread that Premiere doesn't always utiize preview images for especially those quick encodes that most of us need from time to time. I still don't think attributing motivations is particularly useful.

As in discussions over the years with devs, whether Adobe or BlackMagic or whoever, it's always priorities. How important the devs see something over the total user base.

The last couple NABs, I've got the feeling that from internal data, those of us actually using the "use previews" option is a completely, surprisingly small subset of the total user base.

That to me, is kinda sad ... ah well.

[Ryan Fritzsche]

So, just to be clear: I am taking this as you saying that you are declining to support the funcationality we (or at very least, I know @Scott.C. & I) are requesting here.  Is that what you mean to communicate?  If that's the verdict, then such is life.  But It still doesn't explain why a "use previews" checkbox appears when output codec does not match sequence codec.

I understand if the dev team sees my position as a minority one in this conversation, and I have no choice but to accept your decision, but if you will humor me for a moment, allow me to make the case one last time for why this is a huge problem.

My sequences are always setup as either ProRes or ProRes Proxy, or whatever codec my final master delivery will be in.  That said, as I am working, I produce various versions of my edit which I need to share with my producers and team, and those are typically lo-res screeners with timecode burned in (H.264 or H.265, at half or quarter the final output resolution, highly compressed, etc).  I export these lo-res versions numerous times throughout an edit, as we discuss and iterate the creative process.  Only at the very end of the process, do I need to export a full-resolution ProRes master.  However, I don't want to work in a long-gop sequence codec such as H.264, nor at a smaller frame size (quarter, half, or whatever), so when I render complex stuff in my timeline, during the iterative process, it's getting rendered at full sequence resolution into whatever the working codec is (typcially ProRes).  When I go to export a lo-res screener for my team to review, I don't want to wait while the export system re-renders, from scratch, all of the color and fx in my timeline, just to be squashing it into a 640x360 1Mbps .mp4.  I just want that export process to use the ProRes preview files that already exist.  

This is how FInal Cut Pro 7 worked.  This is how Premiere Pro used to work.  This is how the PP interface implies that it still works.  

This issue is a nuisance on edits that are only a couple minutes long.  This is a major bottleneck on longer edits.  A 20 or 30 minute edit with lots of color or FX work takes a while to render, and having to re-render it every time I want to pound out a lo-res export is time-consuming.  

Yes, I realize I can export "using sequence settings" and then encode into .mp4 or whatever,, but then I end up with a huge master-quality file I don't need, that consumes copious disk space, and which I then have to take that file and re-export thru either PP or AME to get the lo-res file, so it's a hassle and a bottleneck every which way.

Can you please offer some reason why you won't support this workflow?  I feel like we're screaming into the void here.  We know how it works.  We want it to work better.

[Path 88 Productions]

Yes, I realize I can export "using sequence settings" and then encode into .mp4 or whatever

FWIW, I'm here to testify that's it's not even working in those situations.  I say that because it's exactly what I'm trying to do.  Export as ProRes422 using previews. 

Whatever.  Adobe ain't really trying to fix problems and bugs like this, it's a different product for a different marketplace now and their priorities lie elsewhere.  I'm tired of hoping they'll tighten up thier product.  It's just not what they do.

[R Neil Haugen]

I went back to Scrozier's original post. He speciically sets sequence previews to ProRes variants, then selects a different codec for the export.

What "use previews" does is simply to use those exact frames. Which naturally have to be the same format/codec. So Scrozier's request was pretty much a non-starter. The entire frame has to be built from scratch differently between any two different codecs.

So to me, it doesn't sound like you and Scrozier are asking for the same thing. You seem to be interested in being able to use ProRes previews to make ProRes outputs? Is that correct?

[Path 88 Productions]

Yes.  That's correct.  So even though the OP may be off in his/her expectations, the title of the "Use Previews Doesn't Use Previews" post is also my experience, even though I'm sticking to a 422sequence=422previews=422export workflow.  Like I mention, my suspicion of this not working for me lies in the 3rd party plug-ins I have on a majority of my edit.

[Ryan Fritzsche]

@R Neil Haugen I'm not sure if you're referring to my request or @Path 88 Productions's comment.  My comment is 100% in sync w/ @Scott.C.'s.  

As long as a frame can be read, it can be re-encoded into any other format.  As long as Premiere is able to read a preview file frame in ProRes (or any other codec or format), which it obviously is, it can re-encode that frame into any other supported codec.  So, I disagree with the statement "The entire frame has to be built from scratch differently between any two different codecs.", at least within the frame of reference under which I'm asking for this feature to function.

Here's the bottom line: if I'm working on a complex edit and I want to export a lo-res, compressed version of it for my internal team to review, I should NOT have to export the entire timeline into a full-res, large master file, nor should I have to wait while perfectly serviceable preview files are ignored and Premiere re-renders every frame from scratch into whatever lo-res format I have selected for output.  

Again, this is how it worked in FCP 3 thru 7.  This is how it used to work in Premiere.  This is how Premiere's inclusion of a "use previews" toggle switch in the Export dialogue implies it works now.  And if Premiere can seamlessly PLAY a preview file, it can seamlessly ENCODE from that preview file.  

[R Neil Haugen]

Ryan ... these forums are always a joy to navigate, as no matter how you structure them, It's hard to track direct replies and the full extent of the 'conversation'. I was actaully replying more to your comments.

I've at times done some heavy video noise reduction, and of course Warp, and normally a ton of color grading. So previews are something I've both used in my own work, and discussed with others including devs at NAB over the last what, decade now? So I've 'been around' the discussion and working processes some.

I have one limitation, in that I've never owned any Apple ... stuff, so I have no experience with FCP-whatever. I can't answer on that, but Support Staffer @Kevin-Monahan used to be an FCP trainer way back when. He and others would know about those things.

And I could be wrong, but personally, I don't recall any earlier build of Premiere clearly using previews if not of the same codec/framesize/framerate. But that's ok, there's a better resource than memory ...

So I just went back to Jarle Leirpoll's massive, 1200+ page, and incredibly useful tome, The Cool Stuff in Premiere Pro, Second Edition (2017). And went to chapter 12, Exports, the Smart Renders section.

And there he clearly says that you must match all format/image details between previews and export settings to get 'smart rendering' to cut down on the export time. 

So ... that jives with my memory on the use of previews at export. At least back to Premiere 2017.  That's the first part. But of course, as to whether it would be nice ... that's a different discussion than whether it used to. And there, we do agree.

It would be awesome if Premiere could somehow use the previews to create quickie outputs without recomputing effects. Agreed!

So I disagree that Premiere used to do this, but do agree it would be a major feature benefit for many users now. As always.

[Ryan Fritzsche]

I really appreciate your engagement on this, Neil.  Thank you.  

I must confess, you may well be right about how Premiere used to function but I started out editing in FCP 3 back in 2002, and made the shift to Premiere in 2014.  I am as sure as i can be (without digging out an old laptop and trying to boot up FCP 7) that it did use its previews, when that option was selected. But it has been a decade since I've used FCP regularly. I don't have an old 2015 or 2016 version of Premiere handy to test it now, but I believe @Scott.C. had some tests that evidenced Premiere used to do this, and I could really swear that exports from Premiere used to be much quicker when my sequence was rendered than when it wasn't, and then that at some point, that stopped being the case, and i wondered what was going on, which led me to this forum at some point.  

Nonetheless... Premiere is giving us a "use previews" option, and it's not honoring that option.  Sure seems it shouldn't be there unless Premiere is going to actually use them.

[Path 88 Productions]

I'll chime in to say, anecdotally, that both Premiere and FCP7 absolutely used to spit out rendered previews for a final encode lickety split when that feature was enabled.   And I'm talking about when matching the sequence previews to ecoded file.   i.e. ProRes422 to ProRes422.

Now?  Not so much.

[R Neil Haugen]

I've never used FC numbered "early", or FCP, nor Avid either.

And it's so interesting to get information on ways the other apps do things. All of these apps have unique and very, very  useful things not in the others. There's some trim things from Avid would be a total joy to have. Among other things.

[ProgressivePictures]

Hi,

Premiere used to do it. It was working perfectly a long time ago. I could edit footage from my Sony Fs5 in a Prores timeline, render and then export "using render" in h264. And it would be incredibly fast! As it only had to convert Prores render files in h264 without having to calculate any renders. It's was much faster than today with a new MacBook pro in 2024. I'm talking about long 60min edits and short 2min edits.

[R Neil Haugen]

I will definitely allow your remembrances. I've got an older machine that still has the original CC version and up through 2018 loaded. My current machine only has back to 2019 I think. It would be interesting to test, but I'd have to set that box up again. Probably ... not. I'll accept your comments as is.

[MobyTrix]

I've been using Premiere since version 4.2 (1996) with Zoran MJPEG hardware to cut shorts for broadcast.  "Use Previews" used to be the only way to export in less than an hour, and back then, everything had to match.  Then when Premiere Pro came out mid-2000s, "Use Previews" became much more useful because you could use the pre-rendered preview footage as the source for the export render, regardless of the render target.  Using visually-lossless cineform for previews meant a very speedy export regartdless of the target format.  THAT is what Use Previews is supposed to do.  But somewhere along the way, this functionality was reverted back to the 1990s behavior where it can only be used if the export format matches the preview format.

USE PREVIEWS AS THE SOURCE FOR ANY EXPORT is the behavior we want.  It is a perfectly reasonable request to render the timeline to ProRes 422 HQ to check everything, then export the timeline using the ProRes previews to some other deliverable like H.265.  It is nearly unbelievable and somewhat shameful that Adobe is struggling to recognize how it used to work, and why people want this.  Are they expecting people render previews to prores, export to prores, and then turn around and feed the exported prores back into media encoder for some other target?  Why are they struggling to understand this?

[R Neil Haugen]

Thanks for a most excellent, on point and well detailed post!

Your explanation of the 'timeline' of the Use Previews sounds pretty accurate.

I'd be willing to bet that the problem isn't that they don't understand, or are choosing to ignore, but that it's not seen as a high enough use thing across the user base. There are really quite a few things that devs will easily agree would be very useful to some part of the user base ... but it always gets back to the mix of the current planned "road map" for direction plus priorites for serving the users based on what users actually use on a daily basis. As a percentage of the user base.

You would think that a lot of people would be all over wanting this.  But I think, in reality, we need more users to complain & politely request the change be made.

[JonesVid]

Hi @IanB_360 - thank you for input - but even using the same EXACT Formnat and Codec settings doesn't work for me. The only way to get it to work is to use Match Sequence Settings preset.

Somewhere along the way Adobe have secretly altered the Product Spec on how this works but never highlighted it to users.

Development teams do not make decisions like this it is Business Product Management, at least in normal companies that is how it should work.

You know ?. .. the ones that listen to their User Base. Its the first law of successful marketing.

[R Neil Haugen]

And ...perhaps the first law of using an app is to realize that "I' am not the whole user base ... "   😉

Sure ... thee, me, and the others in this thread would really use that use-previews thing.

But ... from long experience working with and advising/consulting users and groups ... the vast majority of users and groups of users don't know such a thing exists, and therefore aren't paying any attention to our discussions on it.

They're not ignoring their users about this, in general ... as the majority don't have any interest in this.

That's the problem we've got ... we need to get some kind of 'traction' with more users. If we can get more users requesting this, it will jump up the priority list.

[Path 88 Productions]

If we can get more users requesting this, it will jump up the priority list.

I guess.  I'm more curious as to why it used to work a handful of years ago and now it kind of doesn't. 

As it happens, I don't have too many dogs in the hunt regarding Premiere's feature set and general oddness.  When it comes to their software, unaddressed bug issues while plowing ahead with bells and whistles is baked into their corporate DNA.  Anyone that's been around for awhile knows the drill.

[JonesVid]

To be honest the first priority is to stop Pro Res Previews being randomly lost in the first place otherwise this discussion is worthless.

I would also disagree they are not  ignoring the users on this point.

This community is supposed to be two ways - we see little input from Product teams on this platform on core functional issues.

Heads only pop up to engage on easy stuff. Just an observation.

[Scott.C.]

Ditto with everything @Ryan Fritzschesaid. Ditto with @JonesVid  as well losing preview files continues to be a huge problem. Just extremely frustrating to have these professional workflows ignored or waved aside. This not "SOLVED." This is at best "ignored." 

Even in Adobe's own current "best practices guide for exporting" It alludes to being able to recompress frames to speed up an export and outlines why using a mezzanine codec is important to maintain quality.

https://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/bestpractices-export.html

THIS IS A BUG. This used to work and now it doesn't plain and simple.

https://creativecow.net/forums/thread/reducing-export-time-and-relationship-to-preview-r/

-- People used to be able to recompress fames. Again I don't know what version this broke but it existed as early as CS5 or CS5.5. And has worked intermitently since then: 

https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-discussions/quot-use-preview-files-quot-works-in-cs5-5-b...

I would kindly ask the forum admin @IanB_360 not to mark this as "SOLVED" thats just sort of insulting. It is an open bug that has not been squashed. 

I'm going to try one of my weird workarounds and do a screen recording to show that you can get it to export with the previews as source if you use media encoder. 

[Path 88 Productions]

THIS IS A BUG. This used to work and now it doesn't plain and simple

Yeah, I do wish folks wouldn't get in the weeds about side issues and other weird details.  The fundemental thing is that what it used to do ain't working all that great no mores.

If it's green on the timeline it should build an export file quickly without re-rendering.  The reality is that it doesn't.

BTW, I've also noticed that it sort of does what it should (fast exporting) using Media Encoder as well, with the caveat that certain 3rd party plugins will cause re-renders and slow things.

Ta ta

[Scott.C.]

Yeah I haven't been able to reproduce the fast export in Premiere/AE 25 so for trying to quickly export dyanmic links it seems like its still bugged out even in AME with or without "import natively" checked. No matter what I do it spins up a ton of AE CPU usage in task manager instead of just passing the already rendered frames thru. 

[Ryan Fritzsche]

Hey everyone, @R Neil Haugen raises a valid point: this bug discussion has been going for months now but still only has 20 upvotes.  If we don't get more upvotes, we shouldn't be surprised if the dev team leaves it low on their priority list.  Can we all try to solicit other editors we know to come and upvote this?  I'm sure @IanB_360 has a lot on his plate, but we are clearly not clearing whatever the bar is to get more focused attention on this bug.