Closed Captions Not Working (Premiere Pro 14.9 and earlier)

[JessT]

I am trying to create a closed caption in premiere pro cc (trial version) but when I am in the captions tab, am unable to select the 'add' caption button. I have enabled the captions and have watched many video tutorials and searched the web for answers but there is nothing about why the 'add' caption option might not be available?

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Message was edited by: Jim Simon

[atldsl]

This is interesting, so when you exported the xml sidecar in step 2, was it to an .scc or .mcc?  I assume mcc as scc doesn't support the 708 standard?

[atldsl]

oh, just realized you said xml.  So you exported as a timed text .xml?

[KevinAGI]

Correct the W3C/SMPTE/EBU Timed Text File. Its a simple XML file. The only difference between the 608 and 708 xml file is the way the header is written.

608:

<tt xmlns="http://www.w3.org/ns/ttml" xmlns:ttp="http://www.w3.org/ns/ttml#parameter" ttp:dropMode="dropNTSC" ttp:frameRate="30" ttp:frameRateMultiplier="1000 1001" ttp:timeBase="smpte" xmlns:m608="http://www.smpte-ra.org/schemas/2052-1/2010/smpte-tt#cea608" xmlns:smpte="http://www.smpte-ra.org/schemas/2052-1/2010/smpte-tt" xmlns:ttm="http://www.w3.org/ns/ttml#metadata" xmlns:tts="http://www.w3.org/ns/ttml#styling">

708:

<tt xmlns="http://www.w3.org/ns/ttml" xmlns:ttp="http://www.w3.org/ns/ttml#parameter" ttp:dropMode="dropNTSC" ttp:frameRate="30" ttp:frameRateMultiplier="1000 1001" ttp:timeBase="smpte" xmlns:m708="http://www.smpte-ra.org/schemas/2052-1/2013/smpte-tt#cea708" xmlns:smpte="http://www.smpte-ra.org/schemas/2052-1/2010/smpte-tt" xmlns:ttm="http://www.w3.org/ns/ttml#metadata" xmlns:tts="http://www.w3.org/ns/ttml#styling">

[monstremoi]

SCC sidecar is 608 only

MCC sidecar can support 608 and 708 streams

XML sidecar can have just one of any CC stream -- 608, 708, Teletext, or XML

[atldsl]

Right. And MCC is preferred choice for 608/708 captioning. However, is

KevinAGI stating he used two tracks of TT xml and accomplished 608 and 708

on the embedded output?

On Wed, Jun 25, 2014 at 1:06 PM, monstremoi <forums_noreply@adobe.com>

[monstremoi]

Premiere Pro embeds one stream to XML sidecar -- it prioritizes 608 over 708, so 608 will override 708

In PPRO you can embed 608 and 708 streams simultaneously -- embedding to MXF files

In PPRO you can embed 608 and 708 streams simultaneously -- embedding to MCC sidecars

[KevinAGI]

My intent was to provide a work flow for creating Closed Captions one time. As much as I love Premiere Pro and have waited for the day where I could simply caption videos the implementation in PPCC is not quite there. First PPCC only allows you to create either 608 or 708 captions. That would mean you would have to create both in order to get a compliant stream. I wanted to only type and spot one time so I devised a way to do this. This is my xml export import method. The sidecar files I created are irrelevant to creating embedded files as long as both streams are there. Yes the MCC files can hold both 708 and 608 captions. If you get one from the MacCaption software (I did) and import it into PPCC it will reflect this. When you put it on the time line it puts 2 tracks down. It will even let you toggle between 608/708 in the caption creation panel. PPCC has no method for creating from scratch a dual stream caption track so you must do it individually. If you want to then embed this into a video file your only choice is to use the MXF 01pa format. The Quicktime  format currently only embeds 608 streams. I can import one of my Quicktime files from MacCaption and it will bring in both streams. I can then export all of the flavors, sidecars and embedded, and compare them with the output of MacCaption. This is what I did to validate my MXF file. I then also uploaded it to DMDS (Music video Distribution) and it passed there QC process for broadcast. I'm sure there will be improvements in the future this is there first stab at this, and other players have been at this for years.

Kevin

[atldsl]

While your on the subject Kevin, I really think it would be a wise option

for PPCC to offer mpeg2 HD output with embedded captions both 608/708.

They could do this utilizing ATSC A/53 in the picture user data.

Alternately, there is a SMPTE spec for handling the VANC in a transport

stream called RDD11, which would complement the SMPTE 436M they are using

for MXF.

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi Atldsl,

Feel free to file a feature request: http://adobe.ly/feature_request

Thanks,

Kevin

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi Kevin,

The closed caption feature in Premiere Pro is not meant to be for creating captions from scratch. It's mainly for editing existing captions. Sorry if you were expecting a fully featured CC workflow. It is not intended as such. If you would like more extensibility for the closed caption feature, please make a feature request: http://adobe.ly/feature_request

Thanks,
Kevin

[KevinAGI]

Kevin M.

That's what I mostly use it for. I often have to adjust the captions because network standards and practices decide that words have different meanings every other day. In rap videos it's constant. Most of the time however I have to deliver a ProRes Mov with captions, which we can not currently do. If I am uploading to DMDS they can take the MXF file that does work. When it comes to captions we just have to be prepared to send anything out.

Kevin

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi Kevin,

Thanks for the feedback on how you use the feature, very valuable. Again, file those feature requests and I'll see what I can do to advocate for your requests.

Cheers and have a great weekend!

Kevin M.

[monstremoi]

Dear Kevin,

Thanks as well. This kind of feedback is important, so are any feature requests. Thanks for spending the time to get the files and the other information to me.

Regards,

Chris

[bm1915]

Hi Kevin,

While exporting embedded .scc file, does it matter if the sequence is set to 608 or 708 ? What I did is I imported a .scc file from someone else and put it over the video track. I could't see the CC at 608 but was able to see it at 708.

I rendered and I'm ready to export. Do I have to worry about the fact that my Premiere didn't see the CC at 608 setting and was able to see it at 708?  Will any consumer see the CC regardless of the 608, 708 setting?

Thanks,

bm

[monstremoi]

Thank you for your post -- You may have imported a different file to get 708 captions into Premiere Pro. SCC sidecar captions files support only 608 captions. The monitors in PPRO do not auto-detect captioning -- you need to set the monitors to whatever the caption standard you have in the caption file. For best results, try looking here for captioning tips: Learn to work with captions in Premiere Pro

[lemouraodeiaadob]

Adobe you suck!!!! premiere is a lousy software that never works properly!

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi lemouraodeiaadob,

Sounds like you're having trouble. Do you have a specific issue we can try and help with?

Thanks,
Kevin

[lemouraodeiaadob]

It is just IMPOSSIBLE to use the captions! It doesnt work, the captions do not show up, on the final video....in short, i had to use Titles to be able to subtitle the video.

Another problem: my Premiere chashes everytime i minimize it an access indesign. I am using a GTX titan X on mercury playback. My drivers are up to date. What´s going on? Premier is SO unreliable iam going to da vinci resolve.

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi,

Can you describe your workflow for creating captions in the first place? Are you importing a file or creating them from scratch? Can you tell us more about your computer so I can try and reproduce your issue with inDesign?

Thanks,

Kevin

[Nokturnnia]

Having the same problem here. I have tried the same project on two different machines (a Mac Pro 2013 and a MacBook Pro 2015) and both show the same symptoms:

-The subtitles show up on the screen.

-The track is enabled.

-When I try to export (I have tested ProRes and h264) the final video does not have subtitles 3 out of 4 times.

-Same problem occurs both exporting directly from the project or through Encoder.

-After this happens, sometimes the subtitles stop showing up on Premiere itself (again, track is enabled). Only way to have them show up again is by closing Premiere and opening again.

I am running the most recent version of Premiere and the latest OSX.

[Kevin-Monahan]

Nokturnnia,

We do have a new version of Premiere Pro arriving shortly. When that happens, please try it and see if the problem still arises. Until then, can you try working with support by chat or phone?

Thanks,
Kevin

[Nokturnnia]

Just did. Going to the CAPTIONS tab in the media export window, then turning them off and then back on before exporting did the trick for me.

[KevinAGI]

A couple of things about closed caption tracks in QT files. They are extremely timecode dependent. i.e. You have a video on a timeline that starts at the 1 hour mark. You make a QT file that can contain TC and send it out to be captioned. They create the Caption file based on this time code. You get the caption file back. You take a pre rendered version of your mov and put it on a new timeline that starts at zero. import the captions and lay them over the track. Turn on captions in premiere to check them. All looks good.

Now if you are like me and need to be able to send the video out via SDI in the VANC then I play this back and I get no captions on my external device. That is because the captions are in a data stream that happens to be playing at the same time as the video. TC is also a stream. IF the TC and the Caption time codes don't line up the captions are either out of synch or not there. If the timecode is now Zero based as in my example above then the captions are simply waiting for the 1 hour mark to show up.

I have confirmed this on some high end testing equipment analyzing all of the streams of data. Care must be given that all TC's frame rates and standards are strictly adhered to at all times for CC to work. It's much more complicated than in the old days when it was embedded into line 21 of the video.

Kevin

By the Way despite apple having dropping support for QT 7, it remains the best tool along with media info to be able to look at all of the data, Video, and TC tracks in a QT file. Mediainfo also allows you to look at all video files and give you the info as to what the file actually contains.

[Nokturnnia]

Very useful information! I appreciate the follow up!

Thanks!

[JonRussell]

I've been working with closed captions in Premiere CC and have run into an odd issue, sounds like there a few of those in this thread. We produce and deliver a TV broadcast mpeg2 file with CEA-608 or CEA-708, as specified by the station. The issue we are having is that the closed captions do not show up in the encoded file, but are visible in the timeline and preview. The options are greyed out in the Captions tab under the Embed in output file, in order to select SMPTE Timed Text. Our workflow includes using a program called MovieCaptioner to generate an SCC file, then we import this into Premiere and adjust the timing, then we export the timeline to mpeg2. I've checked the files to verify that all are 29.97 fps. Is there anything else we should check or do to get this to work? I read somewhere that the closed captions have to start at a specific time, but I can't find where I read this, or what that time was.  The strange thing is that we got it to work once, but never again.  Thanks!