CS6 / AVCHD / Spanned Clip Bug / What Cameras And Media Types Are Affected?

[joe_bloe_premiere]

This known bug in CS6 has been well documented regarding the potential symptoms, known issues and transcoding workarounds.

Audio and Video glitches | AVCHD footage

It would also be very helpful for CS6 users to be able to specifically identify the problematic cameras and/or media types in order to make informed decisions when purchasing a camera, or when receiving media files with the intent of editing in Premiere CS6.

If there is a definitive list of specific camera manufacturers / models, and/or media types that are affected by this bug, I have not been able to find it.

Of course this bug has been resolved in the June 17th release of the Creative Cloud Subscription update. It remains to be seen if the fix will be back-ported to CS6.

Thanks.

Cameras confirmed as not exhibiting the bug:

Panasonic GH2

Sony HDR SR-12

Cameras confirmed that do have the bug:

Canon Vixia HF G10

[tfi_productions_44]

hello, @ joe bloe premiere:

tha's why i commented like i did, have i done something wrong?

i've been grateful for your help in all of my threads, cheers, j

[joe_bloe_premiere]

...have i done something wrong?

It depends on what you consider wrong.

If making an uninformed post in a thread where you

have not taken the time to fully understand the issue...

Cheers!

[tfi_productions_44]

hello, @ joe bloe premiere:

in all honesty, it has taken me this long to understand what's going on

this is why i kept posting in this thread about wanting to see if someone

had already tested the camera model i use, i am a very slow learner

the good thing is that i don't forget something once i've learned it, cheers, j

[joe_bloe_premiere]

We are all trying to understand.

That's why method is important.

[tfi_productions_44]

hello, @ joe bloe premiere:

i copied the entire folder structure from the camera onto the computer hdd

these are the subfolders: backup, clipINF, playlist, STREAM (where the .mts files are)

i go to media browser, navigate to the folder and then i see all 4 subfolders again

i navigate to the STREAM subfolder and then shift-highlight all the clips and drag them onto the timeline

(this may not be the correct way to use MEDIABROWSER, i haven't used it before until now)

1) HOWEVER, they still import onto the timeline as separate clips...should it be 1 long clip without breaks please?

2) When i play through the clipbreaks, the monitor seems to 'slowdown,drag, get stroboscopic'

(i am on 1/2 resolution)

i am going to export out a piece of the spanned clip during one of the 'clipbreaks' and see how it does...

any advice please?

importing just the .mts files without the folder structure: there was no 'slowdown, drag, strobe' what so ever...

thanks again, j

[Guest]

If you see a spanned clip as a separate clips in Media Browser, some metadata are probably broken. With folder structure intact PrPro automatically detects whether a folder is a regular File Directory (and you have to drill down to find your clips) or AVCHD, Canon XF, Panasonic P2 etc. directory (and at this point you just can't drill down, while immediately see your clips, and a spanned clip is presented as a single clip).

Even though you force PrPro switch from e.g. AVCHD to File Directory view, with preserved metadata it imports a part of a spanned clip as a whole asset, i.e. if you have a spanned clip, which consists of 00018.MTS, 00019.MTS and 00020.MTS with total length of about 1: 52:45:00, and you pick up and import just 00019.MTS or 00020.MTS, you get an asset in PrPro Project panel with 00019.MTS or 00020.MTS name accordingly, but with the duration of 1:52:45:00.

[excited_Genie16B8]

if you have a spanned clip, which consists of 00018.MTS, 00019.MTS and 00020.MTS with total length of about 1: 52:45:00, and you pick up and import just 00019.MTS or 00020.MTS,

When things work correctly, Media Browser won't even show you 19 and 20.  It'll go from 18 to 21.  If you see each file of a spanned clip, then something went wrong.

[Guest]

Key words, 'Even though you force PrPro switch from e.g. AVCHD to File Directory view...'

[excited_Genie16B8]

Yeah, that shouldn't be necessary, so something definitely went wrong if he has to do that.

[Guest]

That's exactly what I said in my comment...

[tfi_productions_44]

hello, 

i've tried 5 different times to import as many ways i can think of

using the media browser and project window

each time all clips show up as separate clips -- never as 1 long clip

i am turning on my camera for the next hour and taping the developing storm

maybe we'll get some rain out here

an interesting thing about the graduation clips is that the lengths all varied

which was surprising...i thought the camera would record a set duration and then

start a new 'clip'

thanks for helping me understand, cheers, j

i do like cs6 PPRO so far though, it is neat...

[excited_Genie16B8]

Most likely the error came before import.  You didn't copy everything off the card, or you changed something inside one of the folders, or deleted some files, or renamed something, etc.

[tfi_productions_44]

hello,  i shot/imported 1 hour 15 minutes of birdfeeder footage

i copied the AVCHD folder and subfolders onto local hdd

(the stream folder contained 7 clips)

started a new project and went to media browser

navigated to avchd folder and only 1 clip was displayed

dragged that onto timeline, conformed

and whoopee 1 long clip with no breaks, glitches, or disappointment

also

after studying file structure of the birdfeeder footage

i went back to the graduation footage and created the top folders:

AVCHD, BDMV and moved the subfolders into the right spot

started a new project and went to media browser

navigated to avchd folder and only 1 clip was displayed

dragged that onto timeline, conformed

and whoopee 1 long clip with no breaks, glitches, or disappointment

a huge thanks to joe bloe premiere, jim simon, fuzzy barsik, stephen spider, steven gotz,

stan jones, kevin monahan, john t. smith, jamesp2, jason van patten, zach rosing, and steve hoeg

you guys rock

i'm using AME to export my principal's graduation speech from last year to send to him

so he can see how to improve his jokes for this year's June 22 ceremony...

have a wonderful evening...

will be purchasing the boxed academic version of cs6 production premium asap

cheers, j

[joe_bloe_premiere]

...I am using CS6 with avchd spanned clip

footage from a Canon HF S20 camera...

...1 long clip with no breaks, glitches, or disappointment.

Thanks for reporting your camera's media is not affected by the bug.

[LanceTJ53]

tfi productions 44 wrote:

hello,  i am using the cs6 trial of PPRO windows with avchd spanned clip footage from a canon hfs20 camera

i loaded one take of 20gb (2 hours 25 minutes (high school graduation)) onto the timeline

everything plays smooth, scrubs smooth, conformed smoothly, etc.

playing in real time

the only glitch is right at the clip breaks

there is a glitch in the audio

sometimes there is a glitch in the video

i copied the entire folder structure from the hd of the camera onto a computer's hdd

however, i only imported the .mts files from within the 'stream' folder into PPRO

and everything is working properly except the glitches noted above...

I think that this is exactly the reason why so many people here are mistakenly reporting that they are not encountering the bug.   For they simply don't know in the first place how to properly import a spanned AVCHD clip via the Media Browser.   These symptoms that you reported of having either an audio or video glitch at the intersection of spanned files only occur when a spanned clip is not properly imported via the Media Browser. It is conclusive confirmation that the import was not done right.

And really, Adobe has the primary blame here for this situation, for not providing adequate documentation on this issue in the Adobe Help Manager.  They have really screwed up badly in not explaining this issue to customers.

If you go into the Adobe Premier Pro help system, and select TRANSFERRING AND IMPORTING FILES, there is NOTHING on that lengthy page mentioning this issue with spanned AVCHD clips needing to be imported through the Media Browser.

Now, there is one link on that page that goes to a third party web page at peachpit.com that does mention that an advantage of using the Media Browser is that spanned clips will show up as a single file.  But that is all they say, and there is no warning at all about these problems that one will encounter with these glitches, if one instead imports the files separately via File, Import.

So Adobe has aggravated this problem by not providing customers with adequate documentation on how to properly use Premiere Pro to import AVCHD clips in the first place.

They have clearly let down their customers in more than one way in this matter.

It is very disappointing.

.

[Cavemandude]

The problem I have with spanning AVCHD clips from my Panasonic GH2 is when applying slow motion to a "spanned" clip that has multiple clips in it the spanning point gets completely messed up causing a major skip in the video. Actually, it's beyond a skip since it typically shows a completely different part of that video clip. That's happens when importing the spanning clips from the proper folder. Now I bypass using the folder and import all the clips individually and manually trim the "spanned" clip(s) after the initial clip by 3-4 frames typically since they have no movement in those frames.

[excited_Genie16B8]

The problem I have with spanning AVCHD clips from my Panasonic GH2 is when applying slow motion to a "spanned" clip that has multiple clips in it the spanning point gets completely messed up causing a major skip in the video.

I'm not seeing that here.  Both speed changes and Time Remapping work as expected.

[Bill Gehrke]

LanceTJ53 wrote:

I think that this is exactly the reason why so many people here are mistakenly reporting that they are not encountering the bug.   For they simply don't know in the first place how to properly import a spanned AVCHD clip via the Media Browser.   These symptoms that you reported of having either an audio or video glitch at the intersection of spanned files only occur when a spanned clip is not properly imported via the Media Browser. It is conclusive confirmation that the import was not done right

Lance,

Are you saying that my files (not imported via the Adobe Media Browser) and not showing an apparent problems should have glitches?  Is there any way to test for problems?  I have all three tracks synchronized in the timeline and have repeatedly scrubbed cut back and forth between clips without seeing any glitches.  I am assuming that you are talking glitches at the 4 GB file size boundaries and not at the switchover between media types.  

[Guest]

Is there any way to test for problems?

Sure: use original spanned MTS files instead of stitched together M2TS one.

[Bill Gehrke]

Fuzzy,

I just looked at the clips from one of my two Sony HandyCam's, the HDR-CX260V.from the recent wedding shoot.  From the Sony camera I imported the folder with that date.  The clip is 37 minutes 47 seconds.  There is one clip and its size is 5.93 GB and it is a MTS file.  So is this a stitched file?  I looked at some other large files currently on the SDHC card and there seems to be no 2/4 GB limitation on these cameras so therefore no spanning, no stitching.

When I look at my HXR-NX5U the raw files on the camera they are 2 GB maximum file size MTS files and when imported via Sony CMU they are stitched into M2TS files.

Since everything I am working with works fine (without Adobe Media Browser) I guess I cannot contribute much additional.

[LanceTJ53]

Bill Gehrke wrote:

LanceTJ53 wrote:

I think that this is exactly the reason why so many people here are mistakenly reporting that they are not encountering the bug.   For they simply don't know in the first place how to properly import a spanned AVCHD clip via the Media Browser.   These symptoms that you reported of having either an audio or video glitch at the intersection of spanned files only occur when a spanned clip is not properly imported via the Media Browser. It is conclusive confirmation that the import was not done right

Lance,

Are you saying that my files (not imported via the Adobe Media Browser) and not showing an apparent problems should have glitches?  Is there any way to test for problems?  I have all three tracks synchronized in the timeline and have repeatedly scrubbed cut back and forth between clips without seeing any glitches.  I am assuming that you are talking glitches at the 4 GB file size boundaries and not at the switchover between media types.  

All I know is that the most knowledgeable people that I have spoken to on this subject insist that in order to properly import individual AVCHD files that are part of one spanned clip, one has to use the Media Browser.  I was first informed of this by Barry Green at DVXUSER.COM, who has written a number of manuals for professional Panasonic camcorders that Panasonic has actually bundled and included with these camcorders here in the USA.   However, I have since been to other websites, where others have confirmed this as well.   I don't think that this is an issue in contention at all here, and is generally accepted to be accurate and true.

In order to try to bolster my theory that the make and model of the camcorder plays no role here, I just today experimented with my GH3. My goal was to show that it would experience the exact same symptoms as my Panasonic AC130 and Canon HF G10.   I've not shot in AVCHD since getting my GH3, and instead have been recording using the 50 Mbps IPB MOV format, that most users of the GH3 appear to indicate gives the best results with this camera.   In fact, support for that format was one of the key reasons I decided to get a GH3.  So today, for the first time, I recorded in 28 Mbps 1080/60p AVCHD 2.0 using the camera, thinking that AVCHD option would stress it the most.   I ended up with two 4 Gig MTS files, and a small third file, all comprising the one clip.

However, I was shocked to discover that I did not experience the severe slow down in the software that I have in the past with my spanned AVCHD clips from either of my camcorders.  However, Premiere Pro 6 did actually crash on me, while it was autosaving and I was playing the file on the Timeline.   And crashing like that during Autosave is a symptom that I have experienced in the past when working with AVCHD spanned clips in 6.0.  However, after restarting the software, I had no problem at all in editing the clip, and even exporting it.   I then performed the same editing and export with the files using PP 5.5, and the performance and speed of the software was similar.   PP 5.5 did not crash on me, though.

So I am not sure what to think at this point.  For I was not able to fully duplicate the problems I've experienced in PP 6 with 24 Mbps 1080/24p and 1080/30p AVCHD spanned clips from my camcorders.  Although the fact that the software crashed on me while doing Autosave makes me think that a problem is still in play.

Message was edited by: LanceTJ53

[excited_Genie16B8]

the fact that the software crashed on me while doing Autosave makes me think that a problem is still in play.

Quite possibly, but not this problem.

[joe_bloe_premiere]

In the process of determining the validity of the premise of this thread

and confirming the proper protocol for import and testing media files,

we shouldn't overlook this interesting revelation from Jason Van Patten

way back in Post #48:

"I can confirm that, with my source footage, the problem exists

with individual MTS files or the entire directory structure.

It doesn't appear to matter."

[excited_Genie16B8]

I'd still love to test that as well.

[joe_bloe_premiere]

Jim Simon wrote:

I'd still love to test that as well.

Additional musings regarding the exact nature of the bug

and its direct relation to file size and clip spanning metadata

in Post #63, and Post #66.