CS6 / AVCHD / Spanned Clip Bug / What Cameras And Media Types Are Affected?

[joe_bloe_premiere]

This known bug in CS6 has been well documented regarding the potential symptoms, known issues and transcoding workarounds.

Audio and Video glitches | AVCHD footage

It would also be very helpful for CS6 users to be able to specifically identify the problematic cameras and/or media types in order to make informed decisions when purchasing a camera, or when receiving media files with the intent of editing in Premiere CS6.

If there is a definitive list of specific camera manufacturers / models, and/or media types that are affected by this bug, I have not been able to find it.

Of course this bug has been resolved in the June 17th release of the Creative Cloud Subscription update. It remains to be seen if the fix will be back-ported to CS6.

Thanks.

Cameras confirmed as not exhibiting the bug:

Panasonic GH2

Sony HDR SR-12

Cameras confirmed that do have the bug:

Canon Vixia HF G10

[joe_bloe_premiere]

Next week I'll be able to test spanned clips from the Panasonic HPX600, which shoots AVC-I to P2 cards.

Thanks, Jim.

Please let us know how it goes on long rolls.

[Guest]

Direct quote from the original posts:

We are using AVCHD footage from Pansonic cameras and if it spanned, the sound will be missing for much or all or the clip...

We have both an HMC-150 and HMC-40, I think with the latest firmware. I have had issues with the footage from both cameras, but the footage in this case is from the HMC-40.

And as I said, 'Does that mean they are 'confirmed problematic cameras'? Well, it depends...'

[joe_bloe_premiere]

Next week I'll be able to test spanned clips from the Panasonic HPX600, which shoots AVC-I to P2 cards.

Jim,

Did you get a chance to test any long rolls with this camera?

Thanks.

[Jim_Simon]

I spoke to the editor Saturday.  I'll probably get a chance to pick up a copy of the media tomorrow (Tuesday).

[joe_bloe_premiere]

Jim,

Please post back if you do have an opportunity to test

spanned media files from the Panasonic HPX600.

So far, these cameras' media have been identified as

being affected by the known CS6 AVCHD footage bug*

Post 44. Jason Van Patten

- Sony Handycam HDRCX300

- Sony Handycam HDRCX130

Post 50. ZachRosing

- Panasonic AG-AC130

- Panasonic HMC-40

If anyone is willing and able to replicate the bug using media files

from any of these four cameras, it would be appreciated in the

interest of indisputably definitive results.

And, anyone who feels their camera might be affected by this bug,

additional controlled camera testing results are welcomed.

Proper protocol for testing:

Create a "spanned clip" continuous roll (duration varies by camera).

Copy the entire contents of the camera's media card

to an internal drive, then import using the Media Browser*.

Also, these suspect cameras referenced in Post 13 by Fuzzy Barsik

are in need of controlled testing using the proper protocol:

- Panasonic HMC-150 and HMC-40

- Canon Vixia HF-G10

*Audio and Video glitches | AVCHD footage

http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/kb/audio-video-glitches-avchd.html

*Import assets from file-based sources with Media Browser

http://helpx.adobe.com/content/help/en/premiere-pro/using/importing-assets-tapeless-formats.html#imp...

[Jim_Simon]

I didn't have time to pick it up Tuesday.  Maybe next week...

[ExactImage]

Confirm that my Canon HF-G10 exhibits the problem.  This was the reason I highlighted the AVCHD problem in the first place!

[joe_bloe_premiere]

ExactImage wrote:

Confirm that my Canon HF-G10 exhibits the problem.

Just confirming that you tested your Canon HF-G10

using the protocol described above in post #108?

[ExactImage]

Yes. Confirmed.

[joe_bloe_premiere]

Thanks for posting to this thread!

Very helpful.

[ExactImage]

I also sent a complete Premiere Pro project that included such media to Adobe last May/June (2012) and they confirmed they were able to reproduce the problem within a day or two.

[LanceTJ53]

Also, these suspect cameras referenced in Post 13 by Fuzzy Barsik

are in need of controlled testing using the proper protocol:

- Panasonic HMC-150 and HMC-40

- Canon Vixia HF-G10

Post 50. ZachRosing

- Panasonic AG-AC130

- Panasonic HMC-40

I own both the Panasonic AG-AC130 and the Canon Vixia HF G10, and can easily duplicate the bug in Premiere Pro 6.0   It does not exist for me when I instead use Premiere Pro 5.5.  And yes, I know the correct way to import AVCHD spanned footage using the Media Browser.   The files always show up as a single clip in the Media Browser.

I do not believe that Adobe is going to devote any more resources at all to investigating this bug at this point in time, much less fixing it in 6.0.  I have totally lost faith in Adobe's commitment to its customers. 

[joe_bloe_premiere]

LanceTJ53,

Thanks for the confirmation that media files from the

Canon Vixia HF-G10 are in fact affected by this bug.

And, your affirming the bug in the Panasonic AG-AC130

is also a valuable addition to the thread.

Thanks.

[blackrosekiller]

I have CS5.5 and will not update to Creative Cloud and pay an annual subscription.  I'm a microbudget filmmaker with no budget to pay for recurring upgrades.  There are some things I like in CS6 so I wanted to upgrade to it but am really concerned with all of the AVCH span clig bug talk I have been reading on the internet.

I was waiting to buy a Canon Vixia HF-G30 but since it has not come out yet opted for a Sony HXR-NX30u (the stabilization system and XLR inputs won me over).  I read in the manual that it creates new clips (spanning I'm assuming) when a clip size reaches 2 GB. 

Adobe told me at the the Tekserv conference last week in NY that CS6 will not be fixed because there is a legal reason surrounding their ability to do so.  They were very vague otherwise.  They said it is fixed in the new Creative Cloud (technically CS7).  I have even heard in forums that it's fixed in the CS6 creative cloud version (not sure if that's even available anymore now that the latest version is out).  The Adobe person told me the span clip bug was only related to cameras that span clips from memory card to memory card (dual memory card configuration).  This doesn't seem to be the case from what I'm hearing.

I really appreicate how thorough and helpful you guys have been here in this forum in order to weed out misinformation.

Can anyone tell me if my new Sony camera is going to have this problem? 

Also, I couldn't seem to find the trial version of CS6 (desktop not creativecloud) to download and try with my new camera.  I even read that it didn't have the AVCHD prser to try.  Can someone shed light on this and does anyone ahve a link to it?  I don't want to buy and try and have to go through the ehadache of getting my money back within 30 days.

Finally, if you are pulling in multiple spanned clips over a period of days and they all have the same directory structure should each directory structure  be placed in it's own directory?  If you copy them into the same folder I'm assuyimg the metadata files will overwrite each other.  I'm trying to understand the best workflow.

Thanks.

[joe_bloe_premiere]

Can anyone tell me if my new Sony camera

is going to have this problem?

There have been no testing results submitted

to this thread using the Sony HXR-NX30u.

However, media from these Sony cameras has been determined

by posts in this thread to be affected by the CS6 AVCHD bug*:

- Sony Handycam HDRCX300

- Sony Handycam HDRCX130

http://forums.adobe.com/message/5343789#5343789

(This may or may not be relevant to your camera)

Adobe told me at the the Tekserv conference

last week in NY that CS6 will not be fixed because

there is a legal reason surrounding their ability to do so.

This is an issue that has yet to be determined.

Adobe Creative Suite 6 FAQ

http://www.adobe.com/products/cs6/faq.html

"Adobe will continue to make Creative Suite 6 available as

a perpetual software license, and will provide bug fixes and

security updates as necessary.  All of the CS6 suite editions

and individual products continue to be available for purchase

by Electronic Software Delivery (ESD) on Adobe.com as well

as through select retailers.

Volume licensing for these products is also available

through Adobe Authorized Resellers worldwide."

Also, I couldn't seem to find the trial version

of CS6 (desktop not creativecloud) to download

and try with my new camera.

Adobe CS6 Trial Downloads: Direct Links

http://prodesigntools.com/adobe-cs6-direct-download-links.html

Be sure to read "Note: Very Important Instructions".

If you already own a license for CS6, these trial downloads can be

authorized (and updated) online by using your existing serial number(s).

Perfect for backing up your boxed DVDs.

CS6 - Buy the Perpetual License version

(Not Creative Cloud rental)

http://www.adobe.com/products/catalog/cs6._sl_id-contentfilter_sl_catalog_sl_software_sl_creativesui...

To buy an upgrade instead the of full version, click the buy button

then select 'I want to buy: Upgrade' instead of 'Full'.

CS5 and CS5.5 Products are eligible for upgrade to CS6.

Finally, if you are pulling in multiple spanned clips

over a period of days and they all have the same

directory structure should each directory structure

be placed in it's own directory?

Create a new folder on an internal drive for copying

the entire contents from each camera card.

Do not mix contents from multiple cards in the same location.

Proper protocol for testing a particular camera's media:

Create a "spanned clip" continuous roll (duration varies by camera).

Copy the entire contents of the camera's media card

to an internal drive, then import using the Media Browser*.

_________________________________________________

*Audio and Video glitches | AVCHD footage

http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/kb/audio-video-glitches-avchd.html

*Import assets from file-based sources with Media Browser

http://helpx.adobe.com/content/help/en/premiere-pro/using/importing-assets-tapeless-formats.html#imp...

[Stan Jones]

Adobe told me at the the Tekserv conference

last week in NY that CS6 will not be fixed because

there is a legal reason surrounding their ability to do so.

This is an issue that has yet to be determined.

It has not been determined whether and how the problem will be fixed. But no one has said that any part of the discussion about fixing the spanning bug has to do with legal reasons. The only rationale for this would be a SOX issue and for it to be considered a "new feature." Since it was fully functional in CS5.5 and is a bug introduced in CS6, I don't see how anyone could consider it a new feature. And no one is claiming that the fix in CC is a "new feature." I can imagine an Adobe bean counter wanting to account for the dollars involved in fixing this by trying to recover it as part of development, but they should have, instead, attrributed CC/7.0 development that fixed this part of a bug a fix for CS6.

It is discouraging for those of us who want to like Adobe that there is still no announcement and commitment to fix this. It is about doing the right thing.

[ExactImage]

Stan Jones wrote:

It is discouraging for those of us who want to like Adobe that there is still no announcement and commitment to fix this. It is about doing the right thing.

The BIG question for me right now is this:    Now that CC is released, they can no longer claim that engineers are tied up on the CC release.  So, have they actually "started" work on fixing this bug or not?  If not, why not?  And when are they going to start?

The idea that it's complete change of arhitecture from 5.5 to 6.0 and then again from 6.0 to CC simply does not wash with me.

There ARE things in CC I would like to 'buy', though sadly not that many in Premiere Pro .  I'd happily hand over a full upgrade price today to Adobe to update my suite for 'other' programs (mostly the web tools for which I'm still on 5.5), so they could have their money in one lump sum TODAY instead of having to wait months and months to get it.  But I'm NOT willing to commit to an unknown bill because of 'rentals'.  Hopefully Adobe get that message by now from more than just me.

[Stan Jones]

The "legal reason" is debunked:

http://forums.adobe.com/message/5432047#5432047

The idea that it's complete change of arhitecture from 5.5 to 6.0 and then again from 6.0 to CC simply does not wash with me.

I don't doubt that, whether complete or not, it was basic changes at each step that created and then fixed the bug. The fact that it is at a basic level does not change the fact that it is a very important fix for CS6. It might fly unfixed (many serious bugs have been fixed in major releases before, and you didn't get the fix if you didn't upgrade), but this is the last perpetual license release, Adobe is using that as a good faith issue for CC users and nonusers alike, and the bug was introduced after it was working okay before. How do they not fix this?

[LanceTJ53]

ExactImage wrote:

Stan Jones wrote:

It is discouraging for those of us who want to like Adobe that there is still no announcement and commitment to fix this. It is about doing the right thing.

The BIG question for me right now is this:    Now that CC is released, they can no longer claim that engineers are tied up on the CC release.

That is not at all true.  At this point in time, Adobe's focus will be fixing bugs in CC, not CS 6.

.

[blackrosekiller]

Thanks for the link to CS6 trial.  I'm downloading it now.

[blackrosekiller]

Please see the additional replies to my post regarding the "legal" issue.  I explain what Adobe's Colin Smith told me in more detail.

http://forums.adobe.com/message/5432147#5432147

[jasonvp]

I have the problem with both of the Sony Handycams in my possession.  I'm not in front of them at the moment and don't know their respective model numbers off-hand.  But it's highly unlikely that one Sony would display the problem and one wouldn't.  Probably safe to assume all Sony Handycams are problematic under CS6.

jas

[joe_bloe_premiere]

Probably safe to assume all Sony Handycams are problematic under CS6.

Good info!

Please post model numbers once you can confirm the spanning bug.

Thanks.

[Stan Jones]

Probably safe to assume all Sony Handycams are problematic under CS6.

Good info!

Well, I have several Handycams thaq shoot Digital 8! As I noted above, Sony has added weird stuff at times that does not follow. Since we don't know what causes the problem, let's make sure we are carefully tracking at least specific cameras that a user knows produces the problem.

I agree that it is likely that all Sony Handycams may show the same problem, but let's get 2 or 3 different models on the list before reaching that conclusion.

[joe_bloe_premiere]

..let's get 2 or 3 different models on the list before reaching that conclusion.

Good point, Stan.

That's why I asked for model numbers to be posted

once the clip spanning bug can be confirmed.

Thanks!