Frame Interpolation Bug?

Report · Aug 20, 2023

I'm not sure if it is a bug or if I need to change some "hidden" settings.

Coincidentally today I noticed that a 25fps clip that I put into a 50fps timeline moved every frame. This should not happen as far as I know. So I checked if I had frame interpolation (Optical Flow or Frame Blending) turned on but the clips setting was on Frame Sampling... so there should be no frame interpolation going on and every 2nd frame should be identical to the one before, right?

Is there any global setting that I have to turn off?

I tried to interpret the footage to 25fps but it didn't change anything and I also tried to change the interpolation to something different (Optical Flow) and back to Frame Sampling.

The timeline is 50fps and progressive.

The only way I got the expected behaviour was by nesting the clip into a 25fps timeline.

So is this a bug or it there some setting I have to change?

Report · Aug 20, 2023

Is the footage of variable framerate? What is the origin?

Report · Aug 20, 2023

The footage is not variable. I don't remember when I had variable framerate footage the last time in a project but it made some problems (had to transcode it first externally).

The origin is a C300II

Report · Aug 20, 2023

Hello BibbidiBobbidiBob,

Interesting problem.

Can you give more information on the original clip ("get properties").

Also ... have you checked supported formats for your material?

https://helpx.adobe.com/ca/premiere-pro/using/supported-file-formats.html

R.

Report · Aug 20, 2023

Yes, the format is supported and nothing out of the ordinary.

I had a closer look on this matter and tried different footage from different cameras/recorders (C300II, Ninja V, A7sIII, Panasonic AG-HPX371E). Sometimes the problem occurs, sometimes not. I will send you a list in a moment

Report · Aug 20, 2023

I first thought it only happens on clips with MXF but as shown, I had the problem also with one of the Quicktime-Clips from the NinjaV

Sorry, I only have it in German right now but the language of the data is somewhat universal I guess:

PROBLEM DOES OCCOUR

Typ: MXF
Dateigröße: 2,25 GB
Bildgröße: 1920 x 1080
Framerate: 25,00
Audioformat der Quelle: 48000 Hz - 24 Bit - 4 Kanäle
Audioformat des Projekts: 48000 Hz - 32-Bit-Floating-Point - 4 Kanäle
Gesamtdauer: 00:07:25:23
Pixel-Seitenverhältnis: 1,0
Alpha: Keine
Farbraum: Rec. 709
Farbraum überschreiben: Aus
Eingabe-LUT: Keine

MXF-Dateiinformationen:
Wrapper-Typ: MXF OP1a (Typ: SingleItem SinglePackage MultiTrack Stream Internal)
Datei erzeugt von: CANON, EOS C300 Mark II (1.00)
AVC Long GOP High 4:2:2 Profile 10-bit Unconstrained Coding

-----

Typ: MXF
Dateigröße: 164,28 MB
Bildgröße: 1440 x 1080
Framerate: 25,00
Audioformat der Quelle: 48000 Hz - 16-Bit - 4 Kanäle
Audioformat des Projekts: 48000 Hz - 32-Bit-Floating-Point - 4 Kanäle
Gesamtdauer: 00:00:11:24
Pixel-Seitenverhältnis: 1,3333
Alpha: Keine

MXF-Dateiinformationen:
Wrapper-Typ: MXF-OP Atom (Typ: N Tracks, 1 Quellclip)
Datei erzeugt von: Panasonic, P2 (2.0)
DV 100

P2-Metadaten-Details:
UserClipName: STA_01_71
DataSource: SHOOTING

Access:
Creator: TNN
CreationDate: 2022-11-15T12:48:22-01:00
LastUpdateDate: 2022-11-15T12:48:34-01:00

Device:
Manufacturer: Panasonic
SerialNo.: K2TAA0019
ModelName: AG-HPX371E

-----

(Ninja V)

Typ: QuickTime-Film
Dateigröße: 1,92 GB
Bildgröße: 1920 x 1080
Framerate: 25,00
Audioformat der Quelle: 48000 Hz - 24 Bit - Mono
Audioformat des Projekts: 48000 Hz - 32-Bit-Floating-Point - Mono
Gesamtdauer: 00:02:29:06
Pixel-Seitenverhältnis: 1,0
Alpha: Keine
Farbraum: Rec. 709
Farbraum überschreiben: Aus
Eingabe-LUT: Keine

QuickTime-Details:
Film enthält 1 Videospur(en), 1 Audiospur(en), 0 Untertitelspur(en) und 1 Timecode-Spur(en).

Video:
Es sind 3731 Frames mit einer Dauer von 1/25. vorhanden.

Videospur 1:
Dauer beträgt 0:02:29:06
Durchschnittliche Framerate beträgt 25,00 fps

Videospur 1 enthält 1 Typ(en) Videodaten:

Videodatenblock Nr. 1:
Framegröße = 1920 x 1080
Kompressor = Apple ProRes 422
Qualität = Höchste (5,00)

----------------------------------------------------------------

PROBLEM DOES NOT OCCOUR

(Ninja V)

Typ: QuickTime-Film
Dateigröße: 20,01 GB
Bildgröße: 3840 x 2160
Framerate: 25,00
Audioformat der Quelle: 48000 Hz - 24 Bit - Stereo
Audioformat des Projekts: 48000 Hz - 32-Bit-Floating-Point - Stereo
Gesamtdauer: 00:03:57:23
Pixel-Seitenverhältnis: 1,0
Alpha: Keine
Farbraum: Rec. 709
Farbraum überschreiben: Aus
Eingabe-LUT: Keine

QuickTime-Details:
Film enthält 1 Videospur(en), 1 Audiospur(en), 0 Untertitelspur(en) und 1 Timecode-Spur(en).

Video:
Es sind 5948 Frames mit einer Dauer von 1/25. vorhanden.

Videospur 1:
Dauer beträgt 0:03:57:22
Durchschnittliche Framerate beträgt 25,01 fps

Videospur 1 enthält 1 Typ(en) Videodaten:

Videodatenblock Nr. 1:
Framegröße = 3840 x 2160
Kompressor = Apple ProRes 422 HQ
Qualität = Höchste (5,00)

-----

(A7sIII)

Typ: MPEG-Film
Dateigröße: 800,14 MB
Bildgröße: 1920 x 1080
Framerate: 25,00
Audioformat der Quelle: 48000 Hz - 16-Bit - Stereo
Audioformat des Projekts: 48000 Hz - 32-Bit-Floating-Point - Stereo
Gesamtdauer: 00:01:12:00
Pixel-Seitenverhältnis: 1,0
Alpha: Keine
Farbraum: Rec. 709
Farbraum überschreiben: Aus
Eingabe-LUT: Keine
Videocodec-Typ: MP4/MOV H.264 10 bit 4:2:2

-----

(A7sII)

Typ: MPEG-Film
Dateigröße: 355,19 MB
Bildgröße: 3840 x 2160
Framerate: 25,00
Audioformat der Quelle: 48000 Hz - 16-Bit - Stereo
Audioformat des Projekts: 48000 Hz - 32-Bit-Floating-Point - Stereo
Gesamtdauer: 00:00:28:20
Pixel-Seitenverhältnis: 1,0
Alpha: Keine
Farbraum: Rec. 709
Farbraum überschreiben: Aus
Eingabe-LUT: Keine
Videocodec-Typ: MP4/MOV H.264 4:2:0

Maybe you see a pattern, I did miss. Right now I'm pretty puzzled but almost convinced it has to be a bug (mainly because the behaviour is not consistent)

What do you think? Should I start a bug report on this matter?

Report · Aug 20, 2023

Yes - it's quite beyond me, I'd start a bug report with the above info.

The last question - does it seem that you are seeing optical flow frames (ie. do any frames have tell-tale artefacts characteristic of optical flow) or frame blending (ie. do the frames appear to be dissolves of 2 frames)?

R.

Report · Aug 21, 2023

I think they are optical flow frames as I don't see any ghosting. Also the footage from the NinjaV where it happens offsets a little vertically in the new frames (it's a recording of the UI from the C300II).

Confusing though: no red bar. When I switch to Optical Flow, the bar becomes red.

I'll report it as a bug. Thanks for your help 🙂

Report · Aug 21, 2023

I obviously tried opening a bug report but it got deleted by Ann Benns (https://community.adobe.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/8283178) because of "double posting".

For the sake of transparency her Mail:

Please do not double post.

Thread locked

Continue here https://community.adobe.com/t5/user/viewprofilepage/user-id/11253969

-----------------

And my response to that matter:

Hello Ann,

I don’t know how this is double posting.

The first thread was marked (and still is) as Discussion where I asked for help and wanted to clarify if this indeed is a bug (because why open a bug report if it could be a simple user error).

The Bug report – also marked as such by me – was created by using the template posted by Kevon-Monahan (see https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-bugs/how-do-i-write-a-bug-report/idi-p/13361863) with additional information that could be relevant to the topic.

Could you at least mark the Discussion as a Bug now as I am not able to do so?

Thanks,

Robert

PS:

Also your link leads to a random user profile? What am I supposed to do with that?

-----------------

I am not a fan of the Adobe bashing I see sometimes in the Support Community. But in such moments I undderstand the frustrations many have with Adobe. when you are not able to file a simple bug report (especially in core features of the program) and the time you take out of your day by testing the conditions to reproduce the bug and writing the report is just wasted because the report is just deleted... you really think that's the way how to interact with your community?

Again: we are not talking about a feature request nor an issue by user error, we are talking about a reoccurring, reproduable issue on multiple devices with multiple footage regarding a core feature of the software.

And to clarify, I don't demand this bug to be top priority or to be fixed by tomorrow but what I want is that the developers get all the information I gatered by using their template - information that was just deleted.

Why do you even have a forum when you delete threads randomly? Merge the threads or change the conversation type, but don't just delete it please.

Report · Aug 21, 2023

Moderators - please repost the bug report, or switch this post to a bug report; also if you can think of anyone at Adobe who would be appropriate for this issue, that would be helpful.

R.

@Kevin-Monahan

@Ann Bens

Report · Aug 21, 2023

Dont know what all the fuss is about.

Posted in the wrong thread, and corrected it all.

Bug report is still active.

Just check your Profile on your posts.

https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-bugs/frame-sampling-interpolates-frames-as-in-optical-fl...

Report · Aug 21, 2023

Thanks for clarification and the link.

I checked the mail, I got from you and the link there was/is dead - Access denied (link in my mail: Re: Frame Sampling interpolates frames as in Optical Flow). In my profile I couldn't find anything - only a notification after someone commented on the report a few minutes ago.

So sorry for the harsh words. On my end it looked like the report got deleted.

Report · Aug 21, 2023

I did some tests on my side and here is the conclusion: if the clip has fields (interlaced, not progressive), it will play every frame even if it's 25 fps playing in a 50 fps sequence, if it's progressive it will have the normal behavior that you expect.

Report · Aug 21, 2023

Ali Jaber,

It's not a matter of "playing every frame" or not - it's a matter of apparently playing frames that don't exist in the original media.

That said - you raise an interesting possibility - BibbidiBobbidiBob, is your material interlaced? Are the timelines set to interlaced as well?

R.

Report · Aug 21, 2023

Because it's interlaced it will play half of the next frame, and it will look like 50 fps clip while it's 25 fps.

Report · Aug 21, 2023

Right, that explains it. Stupid me!

I tested different footage from different productions and yes, some were shot interlaced.

In the metadata and "get properties" I only saw 25fps and the source monitor of course also counted only full frames and not fields (only when I load the footage from the timeline into the source monitor it also counts 50)

Never thought about interlaced footage as the timeline/project always was progressive.

Quite dumb mistake 😐

Lesson learned: tick the box for "field order" metadata or check the footage with Media Info.

Thanks for your suggestions

Report · Aug 21, 2023

Glad to help!

Report · Aug 21, 2023

"Quite dumb mistake"

BibbidiBobbidiBob,

I disagree - I don't think it makes intuitive sense that half speed interlaced footage will only display one field (half a frame) for each frame in the timeline.

Now, it's not crazy that it works that way. But it wouldn't be my first guess - particularly when you consider that the interlaced clip can be in either an interlaced or non-interlaced timeline, and ... how does it act in each? the same? differently? All this should be explained in the documentation.

Edit: In fact, we don't know if this is the expected behaviour or not, as it is undocumented.

Undocumented Behaviour

@Kevin-Monahan

R.

Adobe Community

Frame Interpolation Bug?

1 Correct answer