I need to get my mouse sharpened...

[shooternz]

Just an observation ....but I think that CS6 has turned my mouse into a blunt object!

Like filleting a fish with a blunt knife.

I have cut a handful of small projects with CS6 since its release but I am currently in the middle of cutting 8 TVCs. 

This experience with CS6 has confirmed my observation that the new timeline trim tricks and functions seems to make me feel as if I am  cutting with a blunt instrument compared to previous versions of PPRO.

If the mouse cursor is not precisely positioned...one does not get the trim action or result that one wants so easily.  ie. Fiddling around until the desired trim indicator shows.

Working in a scaled out timeline makes things easier but it never felt this difficult before to get onto and edit point at either end of a clip.

With clients besides me...I have never felt so bumbling as this makes me look!

BTW - I am using combinations of mouse, shortcut keys and modifier keys.

[tclark513]

And so it is simply more efficient to keep one hand on the mouse at all times.

Totally agree!!

[cfg_2451]

Kevin Monahan wrote:

I want to edit with no mouse, as I did with FCP.

Why? If you want to use FCP, why are you working for Adobe? That's not a rhetorical question.

What I want, as an Adobe customer, is for Adobe to be more Adobe-like. If I wanted it to be more FCP-like, I'd just buy FCP and cut Abobe out of the loop. You seem to be taking "chasing the competition" to the extreme, and loosing yourselves in the bargin. Just sayin'.

I'm an old guy. I remember editing with vi. Probably no one else here does. But VI was extremely tied to archane keyboard shortcuts (notice the first four cursor movement comands -- look familiar?). It you used vi at least four hours a day, every day, it was pretty good and fairly fast. But if you didn't use it at least four hours a day, it became a PITA very quickly because you'd start forgetting. I used to really hate Monday mornings...

VI got stomped into the ground by GUI editing, in large part because of it's insistence that the user had to keep a large volume of arcane keyboard shortcuts in their head in order to use the editor (this sounding familiar to you yet?). Which works if all you do with a computer is use that one piece of software. But doesn't work at all if you have other things to do, or, dog forbid, you use other software with different keyboard shortcuts. Then your life becomes a living hell, or you find another editor that isn't quite so onerous. Which explains why vi is so hard to find these days.

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

[SimonHy]

cfg_2451 wrote:

Kevin Monahan wrote:

I want to edit with no mouse, as I did with FCP.

Why? If you want to use FCP, why are you working for Adobe? That's not a rhetorical question.

What I want, as an Adobe customer, is for Adobe to be more Adobe-like. If I wanted it to be more FCP-like, I'd just buy FCP and cut Abobe out of the loop. You seem to be taking "chasing the competition" to the extreme, and loosing yourselves in the bargin. Just sayin'.

I'm an old guy. I remember editing with vi. Probably no one else here does. But VI was extremely tied to archane keyboard shortcuts (notice the first four cursor movement comands -- look familiar?). It you used vi at least four hours a day, every day, it was pretty good and fairly fast. But if you didn't use it at least four hours a day, it became a PITA very quickly because you'd start forgetting. I used to really hate Monday mornings...

VI got stomped into the ground by GUI editing, in large part because of it's insistence that the user had to keep a large volume of arcane keyboard shortcuts in their head in order to use the editor (this sounding familiar to you yet?). Which works if all you do with a computer is use that one piece of software. But doesn't work at all if you have other things to do, or, dog forbid, you use other software with different keyboard shortcuts. Then your life becomes a living hell, or you find another editor that isn't quite so onerous. Which explains why vi is so hard to find these days.

Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

All of the major edit systems have borrowed ideas from each other over the years. Yet only on these forums have I read people react to comments about features people like in other NLEs with "well why don't you go use that NLE?" It's a bit defensive isn't it? There's good and bad about every system, if we're going to learn from history let's learn from what's worked in other NLEs, not pass it off as not our way of working.

Personally, as someone who sits in front of an NLE upwards of 70 hours a week, I don't have any trouble remembering keyboard shortcuts, so they suit me well. And that's the reality of a lot of pro editors. But I know a lot of the more casual editors who use Premiere at my office are mouse orientated, and like to have all the buttons turned on. I don't see why it's not possible to have a flexible system, that suits both types of users. That should be Adobe's goal.

[Kevin-Monahan]

SimonHy wrote:

But I know a lot of the more casual editors who use Premiere at my office are mouse orientated, and like to have all the buttons turned on. I don't see why it's not possible to have a flexible system, that suits both types of users. That should be Adobe's goal.

It is. That's why we made things like the button editor--you can have as many buttons as you want in the interface.
Continued feature requests will help guide us as to what you guys want in the app. Keep 'em up.

[Kevin-Monahan]

cfg_2451 wrote:

Kevin Monahan wrote:

I want to edit with no mouse, as I did with FCP.

Videos this evening

Why? If you want to use FCP, why are you working for Adobe? That's not a rhetorical question.

Huh? I didn't say that. I'm just stating the fact that legacy FCP was set up better for keyboard only editing over Premiere Pro (however, It took them all the way until version 7 to do so), and we're coming closer ourselves with every version. You don't need to read any more into it than that.

cfg_2451 wrote:

What I want, as an Adobe customer, is for Adobe to be more Adobe-like. If I wanted it to be more FCP-like, I'd just buy FCP and cut Abobe out of the loop. You seem to be taking "chasing the competition" to the extreme, and loosing yourselves in the bargin. Just sayin'.

I don't think the way we've evolved is extreme at all, in fact, I think we've progressed nicely.

I'm sure you've noticed that Premiere Pro has been undergoing some big changes, over the past few versions in particular. These changes are geared towards professional editors, and the tools they like to use in other NLEs. We're not losing ourselves, quite the opposite. Most pro editors seem to love the direction we're going in.

We're in the software business, so we need new users to survive as a company. Adapting our tools to be more useful to newcomers is important to us, as we would like to keep them as customers. Hope that makes more sense to you.

[shooternz]

That is pretty much what I was saying.

Whatever...here is my "solution" and I am very happy with this because its working well in practice.

I  have  customised my customised Keyboard settings to adapt :

"Z" = Zoom in  ( previously "+")  "Shift Z" = Zoom Out ( previously "-")

These are better located for me.

"Z" was originally  the shortcut for the Zoom Tool ( which I never used before).

It is even marked as "Zoom" on my Logic Keyboard so that is very convenient.

I also mapped  "Shift T"  to my custom set ..as the Trim Mode Toggle ( as it is in the CS6 Keyboard settings).

I now want to find a  single KBD setting to take me to the nearest edit point and set a Trim Mode ( from which I can Toggle to the others.)  ie. I know there are five different Trim Modes shortcuts available. - I want ONE ONLY to locate the edit point nearest and get into Trim Mode just as if I had clicked it with a mouse cursor..

[benwinter]

I like this. Thanks for the tip. Although I'm sure my workflow is not the fastest, so I'm willing to give the new 'mouseless trim' mechanism a try.

[Kevin-Monahan]

shooternz wrote:

I now want to find a  single KBD setting to take me to the nearest edit point and set a Trim Mode ( from which I can Toggle to the others.)  ie. I know there are five different Trim Modes shortcuts available. - I want ONE ONLY to locate the edit point nearest and get into Trim Mode just as if I had clicked it with a mouse cursor..

You can press the T key, and it will select the nearest edit point and open up trim mode. Is that what you wanted? If you want to remain in the Timeline to trim, you have to select one of the following:

If you want to have the "T" behavior in the Timeline, the closest would take two shortcuts: one of the above shortcuts, then press Ctrl+T.

If that doesn't suit you, please make a feature request: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

[shooternz]

If you want to have the "T" behavior in the Timeline, the closest would take two shortcuts: one of the above shortcuts, then press Ctrl+T.

Thats what I thought and thats how I will do it. 

I am really o,k with this and I am blitzing my edits today.

All good here and in fact ...I am really up to speed with this now that I made the little customisations.

[benwinter]

I just want to add that I'm truly impressed with those of you whose worst workflow bottlenecks are between a movement of the mouse and a keystroke. That's skill...

[cliffclof]

The mouse uses about 5 pixels of extra space for blind people and in turn makes it feel Tonka Toy playschoolish.     I really want to go back to the old version just because of this.

Once again...   If I'm this inaccurate with a mouse I probably shouldn't be using adobe products to start with.

[Kevin-Monahan]

cliffclof wrote:

The mouse uses about 5 pixels of extra space for blind people and in turn makes it feel Tonka Toy playschoolish.     I really want to go back to the old version just because of this.

Once again...   If I'm this inaccurate with a mouse I probably shouldn't be using adobe products to start with.

You can make a feature request for "less chunky" tools. I don't think that's an odd request at all: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

[Toomany3-KEeYrp]

cliffclof wrote:

The mouse uses about 5 pixels of extra space for blind people and in turn makes it feel Tonka Toy playschoolish.     I really want to go back to the old version just because of this.

Once again...   If I'm this inaccurate with a mouse I probably shouldn't be using adobe products to start with.

I couldn't agree more with this post. I TOTALLY agree. It seems like it snaps to somethign within an inch. I totally agree that we all know how to use a mouse... a LITTLE help is nice, but LITTLE is the key word.

[Jas_Brooks]

Here's a useful fix to make several of the most-used timeline cursors much more slimline and inobtrusive. It works by simply replacing the files inside your contents, so need a minimal degree of technical knowledge to implement.

I strongly recommend checking it out:

http://philipbloom.net/2012/07/07/premiereicons/

Cheers,

jason

[Toomany3-KEeYrp]

Jas Brooks wrote:

Here's a useful fix to make several of the most-used timeline cursors much more slimline and inobtrusive. It works by simply replacing the files inside your contents, so need a minimal degree of technical knowledge to implement.

I strongly recommend checking it out:

http://philipbloom.net/2012/07/07/premiereicons/

I don't care about the size of the icon. That's not what bothers me. It's the proximity "helper" that drives me crazy. You get within 1 inch of a cut and the cursor changes. I'd MUCH rather the proximity "helper" revert back to they it REALLY helped in CS5.5 on back.

Sometimes you need a helping hand.

It's nice when you fall down that your buddy is there to extend a hand to help you up. But when you're just walking along and he wants to hold your hand the whole time you feel like getting a new buddy.

[tclark513]

Wow, this new trimming kind of sucks!!  When trimming stills to markers Premiere show's snapping to the marker like usual but when you zoom in it's NOT snapped exactly to the marker.  Now I have to take the time to zoom in and trim again.  2 steps forward 3 back!!!

[Jim_Simon]

It's the proximity "helper" that drives me crazy.

Right?!

[Kevin-Monahan]

Jim Simon wrote:

It's the proximity "helper" that drives me crazy.

Right?!

Thinner cursors and less space for the proximity "helper" sound like great feature requests: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

[Jim_Simon]

I'd rather just have the ability to turn off Edit Point Selection, so things work as they did before.

[Kevin-Monahan]

Jim Simon wrote:

I'd rather just have the ability to turn off Edit Point Selection, so things work as they did before.

That's certainly a valid request.

[shooternz]

Eventually when every user gets their highly individualised feature requests bolted into Premiere.... it will become  so complicated, ungainly and bloated...it will be virtually un-usable!

[Jack Banatoni]

I second the request to turn off Edit Point Selection and trim as it worked before.  I'm accidentally switching trim modes.  This causes me to have to undo an edit and redo work.

[the_wine_snob]

+1, or perhaps +2 for me too.

Hunt

[shooternz]

...and you too Bill   

Seems we might  have to send some of you guys back to edit school .

Premiere Elementary School ...maybe?

[the_wine_snob]

Nah, I'm too old for school, and too set in MY ways. I'll leave the "new tricks," to you "young dogs."

Hunt