Lagging/choppy backward playback

[Imgorthand]

I've seen several posts about lagging playback, but none of the tips I found worked.

My issue is a bit different—normal forward playback is smooth, as expected.

However, backward playback is extremely choppy, with most frames being lost, making it completely unusable.

Premiere Pro version: 24.6.1
Windows version: 10.0.26100, Build 26100
14900 / 4080 Super / 128GB RAM / SSD 990 Pro 4TB

I expect smooth playback in both directions.

The edited material consists of Canon R5 files in 4K ALL-I format, which, as I understand, shouldn't be a challenge for this setup.

[jamieclarke]

Hi @Imgorthand - Can you try updating to the latest beta and see if that helps your issue.  Confirming that you are running version 25.1.0.  Does this issue happen in 24.6.1?

[Imgorthand]

Considering the usual state of the new releases, I'm reluctant to install something even more 'stable'. I can do that for the quick confimation if you tell me how. I birefly looked for beta apps or some kind of option in the CC app but I dont see it.

I will try 24.6.1

[Imgorthand]

Sorry for confusion, I am using 24.6.1, 

25.12 is my version of Photoshop.

[Imgorthand]

Ok I figured it out. (BTW its very hard to find if the CC window is not maximized)

I confirm that in 25.1.0 BETA is the same.

The backward playback is choppy. Both using J key and pressing left arrow.

Also after some time of trying backward playback - the forward playback also get choppy for some time.

Forward playback can by also choppy - for example after scrubbing quickly to 

[Imgorthand]

"Forward playback can by also choppy - for example after scrubbing quickly to " - please disregard.

[jamieclarke]

Can you make sure that in your preferences under audio hardware your default input is set to "No Input"

[Imgorthand]

I had "System Default - No Input" but changing directly to "No input" doesnt change the problematic behaviour.

[jamieclarke]

Do you have any panels open? can you try closing panels like the effects panel.  Can you try changing your workspace.

[Imgorthand]

I had several windows open, including Effect Controls, Lumetri Color, Project, Program, and Timeline - but closing them didn’t resolve the issue.

The playback remains choppy when running backward. After that, forward playback is also choppy, which significantly affects my workflow.

Set the workspace to essentials (and closing most windows) also did not help.

Additional sbservations:

For forward playback, CPU spikes to 100% briefly, then stabilizes around 30%, while GPU usage is between 5-20%.

For backward playback, CPU usage stays at 100% during choppy playback and for 10 seconds afterward, with GPU usage at 0%.

Sometimes, after forward playback, I can run backward smoothly for 1-2 seconds before it becomes choppy again.

[jamieclarke]

Does this still happen if you lower the resolution to half?

Can you try backing up your preferences and then hold down "SHIFT" while launching Premiere and check the boxes 

"Reset app preferences"

"Reset Plugin Cache" 

"Disable third-party plugins (one time only)" 

"Clear media cache files" 

[Imgorthand]

I tried the SHIFT reset and it did not help. 

And this is happening regardless of resolution - also at 1/16

😞

[Sumeet Kumar Choubey]

Hi Imgorthand, thanks for trying the steps. Is there any effect applied to these 4K clips in the timeline? Also, is the backward playback working properly in the Source monitor?

-Sumeet

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi @Imgorthand,

Thanks for the bug report. Even though you think the footage should playback, I'm skeptical. Can you try transcoding a few clips to ProRes and see if that plays back reliably. Let us know if that works as a test.

Thanks,
Kevin

[Imgorthand]

Sumeet Kumar Choubey, There are no effects in the clip as my report is for Source view.

Kevin-Monahan,

I imported ProRes clip to my project and it plays smoothly both ways (CPU GPU usage is 20/10 avg both ways)

So indeed this issue is related with decoding Canon R5 ALL-I MP4 files. But please keep in mind this format is designed for easy editing and each frame is separately compressed. 

The cpu usage is only minimally higher when playing forward 30%vs 20% for ProRes.

There should be no reason for such a drastic difference back/forward.

The backward playback of those files must have worked well for most of last 2-3 years - or I woulnd not have grown accustomed to playing back often to find the ideal moment for marking.

I noticed the problems few months ago but I had a weaker rig then - and it was choppy for many reasons. On the new rig the problem is very transparent.

I might be persuaded to try to find the last working version 🙂

[Imgorthand]

Works like charm in 23.0.0

Broken in  in 23.6.9

Broken in  in 23.3

Broken in  in 23.1

Confirmed again that works like charm in 23.0.0

So the problem is here: 23.0.0 --> 23.1

I cant narrow it down any further (no 23.0.x versions available in CC), but I'm willing to verify the beta version again when you have a fix.

I noted that backward playback in 23.0.0 is constant CPU 100% and 5-10 GPU - despite that is works smoothly.

In the broken versions (23.1+)  the CPU stays 100% even for 10 seconds after stopping backward playback and GPU works only for a moment and then stays 0% during choppy backward playback.

For my work I'm switching to stable version 23.0.0.

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hey there, @Imgorthand,

You wrote:

The edited material consists of Canon R5 files in 4K ALL-I format, which, as I understand, shouldn't be a challenge for this setup.

Noted. Strange also that it worked well in a previous version.

What are the details of this media file? Is the 4K footage variant H.264/HEVC 10-bit 4:2:2 footage? You can verify this with MediaInfo in Tree View. If you can provide a screenshot, that may shed some light on the issue.

Feel free to provide a sample clip that I can forward to the team. To keep it confidential, upload to DropBox or the like and PM me the URL.

I'm also a little curious about your Windows 10 build. Research says that Windows 10.0.26100, also known as Build 26100, is actually a Windows 11 build that was released to testers in the Windows Insider Canary and Dev Channels on April 3, 2024. It is part of the development cycle for Windows 11 version 24H2. Is it possible to update Windows to see if that might help your problem?

Thanks,
Kevin

[Imgorthand]

General

Attribute Value

Complete name	2E6A3879.MP4
Format	MPEG-4
Format profile	Base Media / Version 2
Codec ID	mp42 (mp42/hvc1/CAEP)
File size	172 MiB
Duration	1 s 480 ms
Overall bit rate mode	Variable
Overall bit rate	973 Mb/s
Frame rate	50.000 FPS
Encoded date	2023-12-19 16:51:44 UTC
Tagged date	2023-12-19 16:51:44 UTC

Video

Attribute Value

ID	1
Format	HEVC
Format/Info	High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile	Format Range@L6.2@High
Codec ID	hvc1
Codec ID/Info	High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration	1 s 480 ms
Bit rate mode	Variable
Bit rate	972 Mb/s
Width	4 096 pixels
Height	2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio	1.896
Frame rate mode	Constant
Frame rate	50.000 FPS
Color space	YUV
Chroma subsampling	4:2:2
Bit depth	10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)	2.196
Stream size	171 MiB (100%)
Language	English
Encoded date	2023-12-19 16:51:44 UTC
Tagged date	2023-12-19 16:51:44 UTC
Color range	Full
Color primaries	BT.709
Matrix coefficients	BT.709
Codec configuration box	hvcC

Audio

Attribute Value

ID	2
Format	AAC LC
Format/Info	Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID	2 / 40 / mp4a-40-2
Duration	1 s 472 ms
Bit rate mode	Constant
Bit rate	256 kb/s
Channel(s)	2 channels
Channel layout	L R
Sampling rate	48.0 kHz
Frame rate	46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode	Lossy
Stream size	45.5 KiB (0%)
Language	English
Encoded date	2023-12-19 16:51:44 UTC
Tagged date	2023-12-19 16:51:44 UTC

Other

Attribute Value

ID	3
Type	Time code
Format	QuickTime TC
Duration	1 s 480 ms
Bit rate mode	Constant
Frame rate	50.000 FPS
Time code of first frame	09:04:42:10
Time code of last frame	09:04:43:33
Time code, stripped	No
Language	English
Encoded date	2023-12-19 16:51:44 UTC
Tagged date	2023-12-19 16:51:44 UTC

[Imgorthand]

I should be able to provide sample clip in few days.

[Kevin-Monahan]

Check my ammended comment about your OS.

[Imgorthand]

> Is it possible to update Windows to see if that might help your problem?

Not sure why i have this version as it is a new PC with OEM Win11 Home. I'm reluctant to do any win version changes right now. If someone forced to to asses probablility of this fixing the problem I would guess 0.5% which is much lower than probability of contracting some random Window issues after update.

[Kevin-Monahan]

OK, cool. I thought I'd ask since it seems like an odd OS version, @Imgorthand. 

After viewing your MediaInfo screenshot, I suspect it is media-related. When footage is 10-bit 4:2:2 and requires hardware decoding, it is pretty taxing for any computer system. You might try a clean installation of your GPU driver. Use the studio driver and not the game-ready one for the best results.

You can try other application optimization, like turning off HQ Playback in the Settings pop-up, lowering the Playback Resolution, and switching off unnecessary elements (scopes, overlays, etc.). Close any unnecessary apps, especially browsers, Spotify, and other GPU-robbing processes.

I hope the advice helps. If not, continue working with @jamieclarke on the issue. I hope we can help you with this shortly.

Thanks,

Kevin

[Imgorthand]

I do use studio driver, i reported that its the same behaviour for 1/16 resolution, all closed windwods, etc

Take your time as I have switched to version 23.0.0 that works perfectly, regardless of how taxing the backward decoding is for the hardware.

[jamieclarke]

Hi @Imgorthand - I see your file that you are working with is HEVC 422 10 bit.  You will not get hardware acceleration on your 4080 Super GPU with this format.  It sounds like you need to update your driver for your integrated GPU.  Here is a link that can point you in the right direction, https://helpx.adobe.com/x-productkb/multi/gpu-acceleration-and-hardware-encoding.html. Look at the section titled supported codec platforms, and recommended intel driver and processor versions for HEVC 422 10 bit decoding

[Imgorthand]

Jamie are you absolutely sure that 4080 Super GPU doesn not accelerate decoding of HEVC 422 10 bit?

After all you can't really get much more powerful and newer GPU (apart from 4090). And the canon 5R is 4-year old camera that I've been working without any problems for years.

Besides - how would you explain that Premiere Pro 23.0.0 is playing back that footage butter smooth both forward and reverse with system indicating GPU usage?

On the same machine Premiere Pro 23.1 and all other versions up to the beta - offer only choppy reverse playback.

On the page:

https://developer.nvidia.com/video-encode-and-decode-gpu-support-matrix-new

4080 super has YES for all possible codecs there.

I do not use integrated GPU(why would I). My nvidia driver is Studio Driver 561.09 

Have you tried diff between your source code branches  23.0.0 and 23.1?