Premier Pro Slow Motion is jerky (not smooth) when exporting with Mercury Playback GPU Acceleration

[Abdul_Majid]

When rendering slow motion video clips (video slowed down to, for example, 30%), with Mercury Playback GPU Acceleration and with frame blend enabled, the rendered video is not smooth (is jerky). Frame Blending does not have any effect on the rendered output , The results are identicle with and without Frame Blend.

When software only rendering, and with frame blend enabled (ticked), the resulting video is smooth motion.

Please take a look at the following which demonstrates the issue:

https://vimeo.com/48133743

I am using the following:

Windos 7  64 bit

Premier Pro CS5.5 (with latest updates)

NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570 (with latest driver)

The video I am rendering is HDV 1080i format..

I have tried exporting in MPEG2 and M2T with Max Render Quality ticked. Both formats produce the same results.

Why does Frame Blending have no effect on slowed down clips when exporting with Mercury Playback GPU Acceleration? Is this a known issue?

[Abdul_Majid]

This is the first time I have used this forum. I am surprised no one has replied after several days of me posting this question. Perhaps I have not described the problem clearly. If anyone has any questions or requires clarification, please do not hesitate to ask.

I have since been liaising with Studio 1 Productions who have also confirmed this problem in CS5.5 - please visit the following link for more information:

http://www.facebook.com/permalink.php?story_fbid=455951077751730&id=149452058431969

We are conducting further experiments to see if this problem also exists in CS6.

Can anyone suggest how we can get this escalated to the right people?

[Jeff Bellune]

Can anyone suggest how we can get this escalated to the right people?

Adobe - Feature Request/Bug Report Form

[Jeff Bellune]

I don't know what combination of hardware or settings is affecting your result, but I just exported AVCHD 1080i source footage that was slowed down to 15% using hardware MPE in CS5.5 and the result was silky-smooth slow motion.  I exported to MPEG2 Blu-ray using Premiere Pro's built-in encoder.  I have a GTX560Ti card using the latest drivers.

Jeff

[excited_Genie16B8]

In my test with 24p media, both hardware and software looked like crap at 30%, very stuttery, even with Frame Blend.

[Abdul_Majid]

Hi Simon, not sure why your getting problems with playback of video produced from both software and GPU. Might be worth checking your exporting to the same format as your original source video - for example, converting from progressive to interlaced (and vice sera) can sometimes cause the video to appear choppy.

It could also be due to the speed of you hard disc - if your running at 5400rpm, might be worth authoring your frame blended, software rendered - not GPU,  video onto DVD disc and playing through a DVD player. If it plays smoothly through your DVD player then it is likely to be your machine or disc that is causing playback problems.

[excited_Genie16B8]

I didn't try an export, just in the sequence.

30% looks horrendous.  Which doesn't surprise me.  There's just not enough data to slow it down that much and make it look good..  What surprises me is how you got it working in software mode and Jeff got it working at only 15%.  I don't understand that.

[Dave_Knarr]

I saw the footage that PMV121 is having problems with and there is a noticable jerkiness to the video when it is rendered with the gpu.  I have tested some footage slowed down to 30% and I was able to duplicate the problem with CS5.5 on a work computer.  But, I can not duplicate the problem on my home computer with a GT240, Gt545 and a Gtx680. 

So on Monday I will be doing some more testing on the work computer and I will report back to him and to here.

Dave

[Dave_Knarr]

Hi PMV121,
I am running on a 64-bit Windows 7 system.  All of our systems are running Windows 7 Home, all are 64 bit.

I downloaded your footage this morning at home and tried it and it was not smooth in the GPU mode.  At work the same thing.  My footage of the kids playing basketball at 30% is smooth, but at 15% is it not smooth on either system I have tried.   I am using a GTX 570 card right now.   I am working with your footage to see what settings I can use to get it to be as smooth as it is when rendering in CPU mode.  I will post back here later today after I work with the footage some more.   Dave

[Abdul_Majid]

Just to confuse matters further, a friend has reported that frame blending with slow motion does not work for him at all - neither in GPU mode nor in CPU mode.There are also a number of postings on this site (including Simon, above) who claim this - but no one has taken this matter seriously because someone always comes along and proves it works for them.

So I sent my friend my source video clip that I have been using for my tests and asked him the export in CPU mode with frame blending enabled and with speed set to 15%. He is also using CS5.5. The difference between my video and his (both produced in CPU mode with frame blending enabled)  is clearly visible in the comparison video which can be downloaded from the following site.

http://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/yitvrl

This may go some way to explain the inconsistant results Dave is  getting between home and office. It may not actually be the graphics card at fault, especially if the same graphics card model works on one machine but not another(???)

One thought has crossed my mind with regards to the GPU problem I am having. I installed CS5.5 first and then I installed my GTX570. I wonder if it would make any difference if I installed the GTX570 first and then premier pro 5.5 on top of that. I doubt it but I'm getting desparate for answers and am willing to suggest anything that comes to mind!!! .

[Dave_Knarr]

Hi PMV121

The problem I believe is in CS5.5. When I got smooth results at home in CS5.5 I believe that had to do with the clip I was using. Today, I downloaded your clip at home and got the same results as you. When I tried your clip on 3 different machines in the office, I still got the same result as you.

When I tried it on a computer running CS6, I got great results as you can see in this link:

http://www.studio1productions.com/test.htm   On this page, I have the clip you sent me exporting with Software and GPU mode, with the slow motion set for 15%.  One link on the page is for CS5.5 and the other link is for CS6.

There does not seem to be any problem with CS6, only with CS5.5.

I have 3 systems running CS5.5 and the all produced the same results with your clip.  My CS6 system, when testing in Software mode or GPU mode gave me results that looks almost identical.

The clip I used at home was of the kids playing basketball and I got almost identical results in CS5.5 on my home system and 3 of the systems in the office running CS5.5.

However, I worked with an additional 4 different clips and noticed that I was getting various degrees of jerkiness on CS5.5 when using the GPU mode.  This is probably why some people may not be noticing the jerkiness in CS5.5, it seems to depend on the clip.

All 4 clips did fine in software mode.  When I tried these 4 clips on CS6, they all looked great in the GPU mode.

Best thing to do is upgrade to CS6.

Also, I ran the tests today with several different videos cards, the GTX680, GTX570, the GT545 and a GT240.  The results were same with each video card so it is not the video card or the video card driver as I was using the latest NVidia drive of 301.42.

Dave Knarr

Studio 1 Productions

[Abdul_Majid]

I have reported this as a CS5.5 bug using the Adobe - Feature Request/Bug Report Form.

Have also phoned and raised a case with Adobe. I will post any progress on this forum...

Dave, many thanks for your help and support.

I the mean while, I'm off shopping for a CS6 upgrade

[Abdul_Majid]

I have downloaded a trial version of CS6 and can report the following findings:

Both GPU and CPU rendering of slow motion produce exactly the same result and both are smooth motion. But the CS6 video quality does not look as good as the video quality that was produced from CS5.5 CPU mode. Take a look at the following clip - CS5.5 vs CS6. Both were exported in CPU mode and with the same settings. Keep your eyes on the background of the CS6 clip, especially the red curtains as the camera starts to pan from right to left - you will notice some motion blur and ripply background (words can't describe it).

https://vimeo.com/48441228

[ECBowen]

What sequence Presets do you use with the video material with these tests? Have you tried the test with transcoding the HDV to MP4?

Eric

ADK

[Abdul_Majid]

Hi Eric, the source clip is PAL 1080i HDV (1440x1080), upper field order. I'm transcoding to the same format i.e. FORMAT=MPEG2, PRESET=1440x1080i 25 High Quality.

I've also tried transcoding to MP4 but no notable difference to motion jitter.

I don't beleive it is a problem with the presets. It is to do with Frame Blending not being recogized or applied at the time of transcoding. If I compare a clip produced in software only CPU mode (without frame blending) to a clip produced with GPU Acceleration with Frame Blending, both outputs look the same i.e. with motion jitter. It is frame blending that makes the slow motion smoother - frame blending is not working is CS5.5 with GPU Acceleration.

When testing, it is best to slow the clip to approximately 15%. Also, use a clip where the camera is panning from right to left or left to right so there is more chance of seeing motion jitter. Some people have reported no problems. As Dave pointed out above, it really depends on the clip you are using for your test. If it is not slowed down enough or it does not contain much in the way of panning, it is difficult to see the jitter.

You don't need to export the clip to see the motion Jitter. It is also visible in the preview window. 1. Enable GPU Acceleration, 2. Delete Any Exiting Previews, 3. Render Entire Work Area to generate new previews 4. you will see the motion jitter in the preview window - nothing to with with transcoding presets.

Obviously by slowing something down to 15% there is bouind to be some motion jitter. But you will notice there is a huge amount of difference when you compare the amount of jitter between Software-only CPU and GPU Accelerated video clips.

[ECBowen]

The Anamorphic Presets have not been initializing the hardware MPE engine since CS5.5. As far as I can tell CS6 shows the same problems. What I meant by transcoding the HDV to MP4 was transcode the source file to MP4 and then import into the project. Close the HDV Sequence and start a AVCHD sequence for 25 Frame. Drop the Source file onto that sequence and then try the Test again.

Eric

ADK

[Abdul_Majid]

Hi Eric. Thanks for the clarification. I have tried what you suggested but it has not made any difference to the motion jitter in slow motion clips.

As Dave pointed out above, this problem has been fixed in CS6. I have since conducted my own GPU Accelerated slow motion testing in CS6 and can confirm it is silky smooth with GPU Acceleration.

However, as a separate issue (for which i may eventually start a new thread), I have noticed the video quality of CS6 slow motion is not as good as CS5,5 - buts thats another story for another day. But if yout interested in knowing more about this now, download the following CS5.5 and CS6 side-by-side comparison video - keep an eye on the red curtains in the background as the camera pans from right to left - you will notice there is a lot of background ripple in the CS6 clip. However, the motion is smooth in both. Both videos were exported using the same settings i.e. CPU software only rendering, MPEG2 with 1440x1080i 25 High Quality preset.

http://www.sendspace.com/pro/dl/8gzqeb

[Dave_Knarr]

After spending over a week running tests for PMV121 on 4 computers, running the MPE in both software and GPU mode, using several different video cards, using footage of several different video formats and exporting to a large variety of formats, there is definitely problem with CS5.5 and CS6 slow motion.  (Yes, Frame Blend was set for the clip on the timeline I was testing).

However, the severity of it does vary from clip to clip.  I have put up a video on YouTube that will show you what I am taling about.

Here is the link  http://youtu.be/nI4bhUsQBbA

The clips I used during the tests where all HD and they were 1920 x 1080 and 1440 x 1080.

I ran the tests with CS5, CS5.5 and CS6.  CS5 there is no problem.  However, the slow motion problem is different between CS5.5 and CS6.  Watch the video to see what I am talking about.

Dave

[Abdul_Majid]

Having submitted the Bug details to Adobe, I received a telephone call from Adobe Technical Support who confirmed the bug. The gentleman explained that this problem is known to affect interlaced video and not progressive - though i tend to disagree especially having seen Daves Basketball clip which was in progressive format - if you look very carefully, there is still a small amount of motion jitter in the GPU Accelerated clip but it is certainly much much better than the one shown in interlaced format. The Adobe Gentleman also mentioned this problem has been fixed in CS6 - I then explained the CS6 slow motion problem as explained by Dave in the above link i.e. whilst the slow motion in CS6 is now  smooth, there is a certain amount of background wobble or ripple seen in the clip.The Adobe gentleman said he will escalate this issue with his engineers. I have also been asked to submit to Adobe the link to this forum page and any other references and links that may be useful to them - I will do that today.

I short:

1. Adobe have confirmed they are aware of the CS5 and CS5.5 GPU Slow Motion bug - I assume they are working on a fix.

2. Adobe have said this issue only affects interlaced video and not progressive (I'm not convinced)

3. Adobe have agreed to investigate the problems with video quality in CS6 slow motion (in both software and GPU mode).

[kayahacal]

I am having problems with slow motion and cuda as well on CS 6.02 along with the latest GPU and CUDA drivers. The slow motion is effect is very unpleasant and at times unacceptable altough other CUDA accelerated effects show no artififacts. Along with that, I noticed that apllying the effect through the effect control panel is not possible as when trying to change the %100 value, the value is greyed out. The only ways left are either time streching the clip or right clicking on the timeline and changing/adding the value. Lastly, applying slow motion on longer clips causes hangs in playback on certain clips. BTW, All my clips are 4:3 DV PAL so is the sequence.

Regards,

Slow Mo on 4:3 DV PAL clips

Mac PRo 3.1,

Dual quad core 2.8

12 Gigs of RAM

Nvidia and Cuda latest on Premiere CS 6.02

Geforce GTX 480

[Dave_Knarr]

What I am doing is dropping the clip I want in slow motion on the time line.  Then turning off the GPU acceleration.  Applying the slow motion, then exporting the clip

Then I open up the project I am working on with GPU enabled and importing the slow motion clip that I exported. 

It is kind of a pain to do it this way, but it is working for me.

Dave

[Abdul_Majid]

Hi Jeff, that is very interesting. It could be to do with my graphics GTX570 which is meant to be one which is approved by Adobe for CS5.5.

I have tried exporting to MPEG2 and M2T 1080i formats using premier pro's built in encoder and MainConcept. Also many other formats but yet to overcome the problem.

I have a friend who has GTX560Ti who is doing a test as we speak - i will let you know of the results as soon as I hear back.

Have you also exported using software only and viewed the results side by side? maybe there is a small difference which may be easier to spot when viewing both clips side by side. I could easily have accepted my Jerky slow motion as acceptable had I not seen what software-only rendering can do.

Dave at Studio 1 Productions has confimed the same problem is CS5.5  - I'm waiting to hear back from him to find out which card he used. I'll ask him to post his findings in this forum.

Thanks and Regards

[Jeff Bellune]

I didn't compare software-only to hardware-only, but frame blend and no frame blend did make a very slight difference.  I preferred no frame blend because it looked less frame-blended.

Is the video in your first post representative of the magnitude of difference?  Because to my eye, that wasn't "a small difference" and I would have found the jerky version unacceptable under any circumstances. 

Jeff

[Abdul_Majid]

Hi Jeff, I guess you're right. But I would normally only slow it down to 50% at most. Thats when i first noticed the problem. Slowing down to 50% produces a slight jitter that some may find acceptable. I've just realised that you slowed it down to 15% in your test, so I take back what I said. The video I posted on Vimeo is representative of the magnitude of the difference. What you see is what I get when rendering with software-only and hardware GPU at 15% speed. I too would not accept this under any circumstances.

Yes, frame Blending obviously reduces sharpness - the more the blending the less the sharpness. We wouldn't want to use frame blending all the time but sometumes (when it works! ) I would prefer a smoother motion flow at the expense of reduced sharpness.

[seelenfaenger]

Thought I chime in here for some more information. I'm not a video pro (rarely do anything related) but from what I understand slowing down a clip and enabling Frame Blend should produce a smooth result. However, when I do exactly that with the current CS6 I get the same choppy result that has been the subject of this thread.

So as long as I am not overseeing something in the process of creating slow motion, the problem still exists with CS6.

To test it I used a h264 video @ 1080p60 I exported with Sony Vegas at 100% speed and normal settings (as far as I can tell) earlier. I imported it into a new project, slowed it down and enabled frame blend (for the clip as well as later in export). However, the frames in the resulting video are not interpolated but duplicated, so all I see is a slide show with 12 FPS.

Renderer is MPE, software only (apparently my 660 Ti is not even supported...).