Premiere CC 7.1 - Red frames in playback and export

[Nick_HE]

Having some problems after the 7.1 update.

In a variety of projects, on a variety of footage, we're experiencing random fully red frames (#ff000). Sometimes there are 1-2 frames in a clip, and occaisionally it's 80%-90% of the frames in a clip (this is less frequent). It has never been all of the frames of a clip.

This happens:

- On an undrendered timeline (you'll be watching an edit and you'll see a red frame - if you scrub back to it it'll still be there)

- On a rendered timeline

- In exports

Red frames that are visible on a timeline, are sometimes carried through to the export and sometimes not. Sometimes an exported file will display red frames that were not present on the timeline.

Red frames seem to be based on clips, not sequence frames. For example, in one of my exports, I had video footage with a lower third graphic over it. In one frame of the export, a red box appeared over the graphic, but the main shot was not affected.

This has happened to the following types of footage:

- .MTS (from C100)

- .MXF (from C300)

- ProRes 422 MOV

- ProRes 4444 MOV with alpha channel

Fixes that seem to work:

- If an export has red frames, re-export. Watch the new one like a hawk. Repeat until you get lucky.

- If a clip on a timeline has red frames, force a re-render via a Crop filter or similar

- Quit Premiere and reopen it

System/environment details:

- OSX 10.8.5

- Premiere Pro CC 7.1

- Mercury Playback Engine Software Only

- Often (always?) I-Frame Only MPEG sequence settings

- Much (all?) of the footage we've been working with has been on AFP shares via GigE with MTU of 9000

I haven't been able to confirm yet:

- Whether this ever happens with locally stored footage

- Whether this ever happens when Queueing to media encoder (rather than Exporting from Premiere)

- Whether changing to a QuickTime Desktop based sequence setting resolves the issue

Is anyone else experiencing this issue? It's frutstratingly un-testable, since it seems to happen at random. We'll continue to gather data points though and see if we notice any other trends.

Edit: Added additional system context

[Kevin-Monahan]

Great news, Peter. Thanks for reporting back!

Kevin

[Mark Mapes]

Permit me to remind everyone that there is not a single "red frame bug" that is either fixed or not. Red frames are merely a symptom, and many specific problems can produce this symptom.

So the best we can do is fix each case as we become aware of it. But unfortunately other cases will most likely remain. In other words, it's one of those situations we may never be able to declare absolute and eternal victory.

Lengthy threads like this one can tend to obscure these realities--both cultivating the mistaken impression that everybody is hitting the same bug and leading to false assertions that "it's not fixed."

After updating--and before testing whether your particular red frame issue is resolved--be sure to purge the media cache and the preview render files.

[Adaptat1on]

Post house with 12 Creative cloud accounts here, half 2010-11 MacPro, other half - 2013 high end Imacs - storage is a 200 TB SAN system plugged via 10GIG ethernet. All OS mavericks, last version.

We experienced red frames since Premiere CS6 - CS6 was particularly bad, then CC handled it to a degree, we had it here and there but it was pretty uncommon.

Skip to Premiere 8.0 and it started again. We also switched to our current SAN system(we were on a facilis terrablock before) so we thought it was a SAN problem, but around version 8.1 it started getting worse, and i got red frames on non-SAN personnel projects done with a thunderbolt drive on a macbook pro. And it got worse and worse. Skip to 8.2 and now its really a serious problem.

Heres a few observations on the red frames problem :

- MXF files, from XDCAM to Canon C300 XF files are definitely more prone to red framing. A lot more. Note that i dont keep the xml/sif/cif files of the c300, because having them was the source of the spanned clip problem. Nonetheless, it did not resolve the red frame issue.

- The longer the clip, the more chance for Red frames. Our 15s-30s-60s exports never red frame. Our 20-30mins rarely red frame, i saw it only once or twice this year. 45-60mins are more likely, happens about 40% of the time.  However past the hour mark, its an automatic red frame if im using MXF files. I have not tried over an hour exports with prores yet.

- Prores also red frames , albeit at the lower frequency. I only saw it on 45min exports, lately i would say we get a red frame about 25% of the time.

- Red frames are not the only thing we had problems with - once in a while instead of a red frame we had a prior frame appear in the middle of nowhere (that frame was easily a minute earlier or more). This occured on a Prores export once, and a few times on MXF exports (XDCAM 422 50mbps).

- Recently the situation became so bad that we would export out of premiere, fix the red frames issue by ''patching it'', then re-exporting in FCP7/resolve. So far these software have not given me red frames, although the sample size is pretty small.

Looking to work with the Adobe team to fix this problem.

Frank, from idHD studio.

[EselJaye]

I do not have anywhere close to the system you have but my solution has been to clear the cache on a fairly regular basis and only use the Media Browser for importing the files (.mxf especially). The only red frames I've had since adopting those procedures was from a file that had actually been corrupted by a bad CF card. Sticking with SanDisk cards only now.

[mike_buckhout]

Cleaning out the cache has been the solution for me as well.  I did a long render and got several dozen red frames, then did clean cache, and then using the exact same sequence and MXF source footage I tried rendering again and got ZERO red frames in the Events window!

[shane_kinsman]

I FOUND A SOLUTIO!! WOHOO The solution is to cancel your Adobe subscription and start using Resolve. How sad is it I've been dealing with this pathetic issue on and off for 11 years. Adobe has gone from the best to worst in a few short years. I will never buy or use another Adobe product. If they haven't found a fix within 11 years, they never will. So with that said. DUMP ADOBE AND USE ANYTHING ELSE, Just about an other editing platform is more solid and isn't plagued with constant bugs. Therefore I've boycott Adobe and you should too if you want to keep your *** job. BOOOOO ADOBE!!!! Your the worst!!

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hello Shane,

• The solution is to cancel your Adobe subscription and start using Resolve.
• this pathetic issue on and off for 11 years.
• Adobe has gone from the best to worst in a few short years.
• I will never buy or use another Adobe product. I
• f they haven't found a fix within 11 years, they never will.
• So with that said.
• DUMP ADOBE AND USE ANYTHING ELSE,
• Just about an other editing platform is more solid and isn't plagued with constant bugs. Therefore I've boycott Adobe and you should too if you want to keep your job. BOOOOO ADOBE!!!! Your the worst!!

Sorry to see you go. So, to summarize: you still had red frames issues and switched to Resolve, which solved your "red frames" issue? Or was this merely a rant about the sum total of your editing issues?

Please avoid using profanity in our forums in the future, even when alluding to profanity using initials.

Regards.

Kevin

[shane_kinsman]

Its do the fact ive used Premiere since its inception. Im sick and tired of

the constant issues every update, continuous changes on the layout.

Constant removal of effects, and most of all, hours of time wasted working

around bugs to get it barely working. Resolve is quickly becoming the go to

for disgusted people like myself. Our entire television station is sick of

it as well, and plans on doing the same. We pay a hefty sum monthly for

software were actually beta testing. Adobe should be paying us for the

constant headaches.

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hey there Shane,

Thank you so much for your candid feedback. As painful as it is to hear, I do appreciate you letting us know how you feel. It would be even better if you encapsulated your feelings in a bug report. That way, the developers could read it.

It is very difficult to lose a customer such as you, but on behalf of Adobe, thanks for your support. If there's anything I can do for you, feel free to send me a private message.

Regards,
Kevin

[ivanengler]

the error also appears with PRORES 422 files, but only after a certain amount of source data from prores 422 clips is processed / read

i made a test comp in AE with only one gigantic prores 422 source clip (8000 pixels x 1000 pixels @25fps) and the error first appeared at around 1500 frames read from the source file (equalling a few GB of source read and processed). after the red frames error appears once, the erroneous red frames appear more often but never in the same place when rendering the same comp several times)

i also made a test comp containing only a few full HD prores 422 clips (1920 x 1080, @25fps), there the error appeared only seldom (but still randomly). so it can be that a broader user base never experiences this erroneous behaviour at all.

i also made a testcomp containing about 40 full HD prores 422 clips (each 1920 x 1080, scaled down to 10% in size and distributed all over the comp so i can see them all at once). the erroneous red frames appeared within the first rendered frames!! obviously, many qt files had to be open and read in parallel, and so the error appeared from the very beginning of the rendering / export.

i suspect that the AE / PR applications open a RAM buffer for each open prores source file they need to read, and that this buffers somehow becomes compromised when it overflows and when buffer resize / buffer clear / flush operations take place.

of course i tested all sorts of RAM assignents for MP rendering (1GB per core, 2GB, 4GB, 6GB) and i rendered with several different settings of how many cores and ram should be available to other tasks. but the error always appeared. randomly.

--> fact in AE is, that nearly all MP renders / exports using prores clips as source files contained the bad red frames. when rendering without the MP option on (but of course up to 20x slower) so far i never experienced this error (of course always after fresh restarts once the error appeared)

PLEASE FIX THIS ASAP

mac pro 2011, 12 cores, osx 10.8.5, 64 GB ram, angelbird SSD, ati hd radeon 5770 1GB

[ivanengler]

i'm aware this is a PREMIERE thread, but i have exactly this problem now in AE (12.1) since upgrading from 12.0 to 12.1 (AE version numbers)

problem only happens when rendering MP. the red frames appear in the renders only since the upgrade, and only when using prores clips as source items in comps.

the red frames appear regardless of render settings, the problem seems to be how the prores source clips are interpreted.

problem does not appear when using image sequences as clips in comps.

red frames appear completely randomly. (sometimes not, but mostly - also after fresh reboots, and no other apps running)

cleared media cache files - did not help. tried prores footage from local drives and external drives and network drives - problem persists. tried many different prores source files - problem persists. tried increasing memory assigned to each core - problem persists.

only solution for me at the moment is rendering with the "MP" option disabled (yet this is very much slower of course)

mac pro 2011, 12 cores, osx 10.8.5, 64 GB ram, angelbird SSD, ati hd radeon 5770 1GB

[shy collective GmbH]

I have the same thing happening in AE 12.1...

iMac 2013, Mavericks

[daddyoktm]

Similar system to ivanengler

mac pro 2010 2.93 twelve core, osx 10.8.5, 64gigs, Quadro 4000, Facilis Fiber Storage for project assets.  Local eXcelior SSD 448 drive for boot and caching.

This was happening to the other guys here on Premiere and then today, started happening to me on AE 12.1.  Today started working with a 3 minute long QT Prores 444 movie.  Overlaying some stuff over that.  During render getting red frames EVEN with MP turned off.  Had already figured out the cache clearing thing, but it did still happen again, but randomly.  Did it twice, then not the next time.

Just thought I would add to the pile here.

[JoelF76]

Same here with Premiere Pro 7.1 (and Media Encoder 7.1 too renders random red frames).  Noticed that the random red frames always occurs when ProRes4444 are overlayed with alpha on other footage, but this correlation may not be 100% safe.

[EMP1]

I had a situation last night where I could not get rid of the red frames on export. I ended up using Omni Disk Sweeper to clear out all the hidden cashe files in the library, which got rid of the frames after a restart. Just a heads up if your looking for a fix to deliver something!

[Nick_HE]

FWIW, the problem happens quite frequently when doing a "Replace Footage..."

Not the only time it happens, but it seems to find that action particularly ticklish.

[Ekmanwinroth]

Hi!  We have the same problem aswell, our solution is to use Adobe media encoder to do the final rendering instead. Same projects that show redframes when exporting using PP are gone when using AMC . i Really hope there will be a solution to this problem.

[AlexElkins]

Ekmanwinroth wrote:

our solution is to use Adobe media encoder to do the final rendering instead.

Can you expand on this - are you...

1. Opening Media Encoder and then importing the Premiere sequences
2. Exporting from Premiere then selecting 'Queue' to add it to the Media Encoder queue

I've experienced red frames with second method but hadn't thought to try a direct import into AME.

[jwffvm]

We've been using the work around here.  We export from the timeline to ME and put it in the Queue.  Deleting media cache before export.  We posted this work around early on and so far has been solid with no red frames.

Jim Watt

[Ekmanwinroth]

AlexElkins wrote:

Ekmanwinroth wrote:

our solution is to use Adobe media encoder to do the final rendering instead.

Can you expand on this - are you...

1. Opening Media Encoder and then importing the Premiere sequences
2. Exporting from Premiere then selecting 'Queue' to add it to the Media Encoder queue

I've experienced red frames with second method but hadn't thought to try a direct import into AME.

Hi!

Im using the the first example, im opening the PP Sequence in ME. I suspect its something with the Cuda (using Quadro 4000) on a macpro (Mountain lion) . I dont have any problems using my macbook pro 17"(2010) with the same OSX and version of PP.  I have never had these problems before, it all started when i installed the latest update 7.1.0 (141) PP and the rest of the CC updates for all of the apps. I broke my own rule of never updating in the middle of a project. But i couldnt resist the PP Direct link to Speedgrade:)

[Nick_HE]

I can confirm that going through Media Encoder produces red frames for me, both through Queueing and Imporing Premiere Pro Sequence. No CUDA, software only.

[jwffvm]

Yet another red frame example.  Tried to Uprez  half dozen clips with the Boris Continuum filter and 3 turned out fine, the other 3 were solid red for the entire length.  This was in export thru ME.  It's almost like the program is getting flakier by the day.  Surely must be my imagination.

Thx...Jim

[Nick_HE]

Another data point - red frames are happening in exports in the following circumstance:

• Project has a PRV previews folder with preview files and cache files in it
• All media cache files are deleted except those in the previews folder
• Exporting without using previews

The preview files' cache files seem to be polluting the export even though the export isn't supposed to touch preview files at all.

[JoelF76]

I queued a rendered timeline without any red frames to AME (with the 'use previews' option checked) and the resulting QT file had 2 red frames (on a 45 min. show).   Didn't delete the media cache files though.

[ivanengler]

PLEASE can someone from adobe solve the problem ASAP, thanks for all the workarounds, but for example in AE (where the same problem appears as in PR) this "workaround" does not work. it's really getting on my nerves.