Premiere Pro CC and the New Mac Pro (2014)

[eschillay]

I'm expecting delivery soon of a new Mac Pro, nicely loaded, which I purchased mainly because of all the work I do with video. Yet, I read in a review that Adobe Premiere Pro isn't optimized to take advantage of the new Mac Pro, won't run faster, and I'm better off using Apple's Final Cut.

1. Is this true?; and

2. If so, will Premiere Pro be updated any time soon to run best on a 2014 Mac Pro?

My new Mac Pro will have the following configuration:

•	3.5GHz 6-core with 12MB of L3 cache

•	32GB (4x8GB) of 1866MHz DDR3 ECC

•	1TB PCIe-based flash storage

•	Dual AMD FirePro D700 GPUs with 6GB of GDDR5 VRAM each

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi ooopeter,

Do you still get the anomaly when you export without GPU acceleration using Software Only for the Mercury Playback Engine? What if you transcode to ProRes 422 or another codec? Do you still see the lines?

It sounds like FCPX used a different method for encoding your proxies, which I believe would account for the difference in encoding times.

Fincher used After Effects to conform "The Social Network." Kirk Baxter, Fincher's editor, is using Premiere Pro for "Gone Girl." Hope that clears that small bit of trivia up.

Of course we want Premiere Pro to "shine" and have no issues. We do have a lot to deal with, however, and are doing our best to provide the best possible quality NLE.

Thanks for filing the bug report. I will let engineering know that the issue is still occurring in some cases. It would be nice to figure out specifically what is causing the issue.

Sorry again for the trouble and I hope I can help find a solution for this issue.

Thanks,
Kevin

[ostacy]

Since the anomaly occurred in only 2 of more than 200 converted files, and

the conversion took approximately 24 hours, I would need to run it again to

be able to answer you question accurately.

Running it in software mode would slow down the process so, that it would

take even more than 24 hours.

Im not free to do that, I was hoping you could run these tests.

Should I file a bug report for the scale change when working with prores

proxies (of r3d) as well, is it possible for you to investigate that

without the bug report?

Are you allowed to share some information about Kirk Baxter`s workflow?

What camera are they using to record?

What system he uses to edit?

What type of proxies does he convert the original media to?

I am really curious, because we already had a go with a feature film edited

in premiere, but we faced really challenging problems with premiere that

time. I believe it was CS6, I`m sure a lot has changed since than.

I would be the happiest person in the world if premiere worked without the

small annoyances it produces, and I didn’t have to switch between editing

systems because of that.

Thank you for the reply!

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi ooopeter,

ooopeter wrote:

Kevin, finally, someone committed to the issue!

BTW, I've been communicating with users about this issue for quite some time on other threads. Just to let you know, we're very interested in solving these issues once and for all. Again, it will take the efforts of not only Adobe, but Apple and AMD to find a solution to the issue. Even 2 bad encodes out of 200 is something we'd like to see fixed.

ooopeter wrote:

Since the anomaly occurred in only 2 of more than 200 converted files, and

the conversion took approximately 24 hours, I would need to run it again to

be able to answer you question accurately.

I see. As long as you report that in the bug report, we can try to reproduce the issue then.

ooopeter wrote:

Running it in software mode would slow down the process so, that it would

take even more than 24 hours.

Im not free to do that, I was hoping you could run these tests.

Yeah, I didn't realize you had such a big batch.

ooopeter wrote:

Should I file a bug report for the scale change when working with prores

proxies (of r3d) as well, is it possible for you to investigate that

without the bug report?

I can. Regarding your ProRes proxy files, are they the same frame size as the originals, or did you scale them down? Need more info here.

ooopeter wrote:

Are you allowed to share some information about Kirk Baxter`s workflow?

What camera are they using to record?

What system he uses to edit?

What type of proxies does he convert the original media to?

Sorry, I don't have access to these details.

ooopeter wrote:

I would be the happiest person in the world if premiere worked without the

small annoyances it produces, and I didn’t have to switch between editing

systems because of that.

Thank you for the reply!

There's small annoyances with every NLE I've ever used, but I hope we can help solve the ones most important to you.

Thanks,
Kevin

[ostacy]

Hey Kevin!

Today the rendering problem in premiere pro has reappeared.

The r3d project (edited raw files) was rendered to h264 mp 4.

It worked fine until today, but today it has the horizontal coloured lines

again.

The same as with 10.9.3.

I don’t know how to reproduce it, since I did the same renders since 10.9.4

surfaced, and the lines were not there, but today they suddenly reappeared.

I have closed premiere, started it again, and the new render seems fine,

without any glitches.

It is a 30 minute render, so the time wasted is of relevance.

The material I promised to the client did not get there in time, and this

could reflect badly on me.

The issues started on may 15. Today it is July 10. Almost 2 months without

being able to solve the problem. It is really frustrating.

Please keep me updated on the case!

Thank you for your time!

Oresztesz Nemes

[carlosq00]

Have you considered cleaning out the Media Cache Database, then rebooting before you export (render) your project?

[ostacy]

Rendering is mostly fine. Today was the first really glitchy render since 10.9.4.

I just restarted premiere, and the project rendered without the glitch.

But it was a 30 minute long export, so it was kinda annoying, having to export it again.

I think understand why cleaning media cache database would make some difference.

But when I reopen the project, new cache would be created, with the same chance for creating bad ones, as before, wouldn't it?

Rebooting seems to me more like a rain dance, I don't think, it would help the render on mac.

On PC it frees up some memory, so there I can see a reason to, but on mac, I'm not sure, it would make any changes.

Does something happen to premiere, when you reboot?

Thank you for the input!

[carlosq00]

The reboot suggestion is mainly to ensure that any and all background processes are in fact restarted. Since CC, I've noticed that some of the adobe apps do a poor job at cleaning up after themselves creating memory leaks.

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi Oresztesz,

ooopeter wrote:

Hey Kevin!

Today the rendering problem in premiere pro has reappeared.

The r3d project (edited raw files) was rendered to h264 mp 4.

It worked fine until today, but today it has the horizontal coloured lines

again.

So this time, you had the problem with H.264 footage instead of ProRes Proxy. The export format does not seem to matter. Sorry to hear that.

ooopeter wrote:

I don’t know how to reproduce it, since I did the same renders since 10.9.4

surfaced, and the lines were not there, but today they suddenly reappeared.

OK, thanks for reporting.

ooopeter wrote:

I have closed premiere, started it again, and the new render seems fine,

without any glitches.

OK, that's a good sign but not a fix unless the problem does not appear now that you rebooted. Please keep me informed on this development.

ooopeter wrote:

It is a 30 minute render, so the time wasted is of relevance.

The material I promised to the client did not get there in time, and this

could reflect badly on me.

I understand. That's unacceptable. I will definitely report this issue to management.

ooopeter wrote:

The issues started on may 15. Today it is July 10. Almost 2 months without

being able to solve the problem. It is really frustrating.

I do understand your frustration. Working with 3 different companies on the issue does take time, so I'm sorry it's taking so long to completely solve it.

ooopeter wrote:

Please keep me updated on the case!

Thank you for your time!

Yes, I will and thank you too.

Kevin

[chappydboz]

I just got a new mac pro (see my hardware specs below)

here's what i see when i try to run Premiere Pro CC 2014 (just installed latest version yesterday):

• If i choose GPU graphics in the project settings, there is no video at all. my source and program windows are just grey..
• if i choose software graphics, it appears that everything is working properly..

the whole reason I got this hot-rod computer was to speed up my video work. Seeing Adobe announce that they had added support for mac pro's AMD GPU's, I pulled the trigger on a major purchase.. yes, I should have dug deeper to find out about real-world user experiences, but still - I cant help feeling like somebody lied to me...

[DellPatrick]

chzppy, 10.9.3 does not work with the MacPro's graphic cards in Creative Cloud.  Works fine with Final Cut Pro X - go figure!  (is this corporate espionage or what?)

The only version of OSX that works with the new Mac Pro + Creative Cloud is 10.9.2

[third unkle]

Upgraded to 10.9.4 this morning... everything looks to be pretty good... rendered file from PPro using GPU... speedy as ever... no glitches...

well done Apple... now if we could only get them to admit they made a mistake

in this excessively litigious world no major corporation is going to put up their hand and say "my bad"... I blame the lawyers...

happy days

Mac Pro 2014.... blah blah blah... 2 x D700... blah blah... 32GB RAM... etc

[third unkle]

for what it's worth I upgraded from 10.9.2 to 10.9.4 with a full system install (not an update) available through recovery mode

having no issues at all... had previously upgraded to 10.9.3 from .2 and then recovered the old OS from the previous days back-up after experiencing the problems that everyone had. I was one of the lucky ones able to do that

it was clearly an Apple problem, some suggested a conspiracy, but that's another story...

anyway, might be worth considering a full OS install to wipe away any lingering malfeasant OS artefacts

cheers

Pete

[UBERcut]

I have a sort like issue.

I just bought the Mac pro with these specs

12 core 2.7

1tb SSD

64 GB ram

Dual D700 6GB.

I use premiere Pro CC and still my retina macbook pro 2.6 16gb 1gb Nvidia 610 runs and renders faster?

When will Premiere CC be optimized to run with these cores?

Oh and I have lots of graphical issues with the videocard as well in Premiere?

It's quite a bummer that a machine that I just bought, performs MUCH lesser than my macbook

[alainmaiki]

U need to update to osx 10.9.4 and problems will be fixed. We all had the same issues u til last week when the update came out

Sent from my iPhone

[ostacy]

Update to 10.9.4 did make the issues occur less frequent.

But my 24 hour long encoding on (up to date) Media Encoder on 10.9.4 produced the same lines reappear on a small fraction of the converted footage.

Also I got the issue a couple of times in the viewport on 10.9.4.

That make me think, the glitch did not disappear 100%

Much less frequent, I admit, but I have to check all the renders with the non-blink eyes to be on the safe side (it's no fun with 20 minute long renders).

[ostacy]

Im in a support debate with adobe, tomorrow the same time hopefully I will have more information.

The many cores should give you a bump in software render mode, but the video cards drive the mercury engine, if Im not mistaken.

Still D700 is off the chart compared to the macbook pro's nvidia 650m.

But Adobe has to learn to utilise the AMD graphics card, which uses openCL instead of Nvidia's CUDA cards.

Apple and AMD are supposedly to blame as well, since they don't provide as much support to openCL, as nvidia to CUDA.

Now Adobe could say: guys, don't buy the mac pro, cause we are not ready to utilise it just yet.

But their official statement is, that they utilise it perfectly.

This lie is what causes the problems. For instance, out of the the 2 GPUs mercury can only use 1 to render. Yep, it could be 2x as fast, if Adobe was up to the task.

Im really not here to convert anyone, and I honestly believe, that all the editing softwares out there can address certain tasks better than the other.

BUT

I must tell you, FCP X is really fast on the mac pro, and I will try to use it as much as possible, simply because it just works so well on this machine, I didn't have any issues whatsoever the last week I've been using it.

Would I have bought the mac pro if had known that Premiere would be lagging on it? I'm not sure about that, but I hope Adobe will be able to optimise their software. Please fix After Effects too, while on the job (theFoundry with Nuke is really fast to it).

[UBERcut]

thanks for the reply.

Yes honesty is whats most important, unfortunately Adobe isn't.

I think it's okay to commit your flaws as a company. It's better to say that it works perfectly while it's obviously not.

Now I have the feeling I just bought the most powerful mac there is, and Adobe won't allow me to use it.

Premiere is my program of choice and I don't want to use Final Cut actually.

I guess the clue is to wait for Adobe to focus on their pro users as well...

[ostacy]

Hi guys!

((Today I had a long phone conversation with Arjun from Adobe support (yesterday he failed to call me, today he called me 1 hour later, than agreed, but at least he called).

I already told the hungarian support, who turned out to be not the support (but was listed as on Adobes support options) what problems I was facing.

Then I wrote it them to the hungarian e-mail support in english. Then in hungarian. After that I had to write it to the US support in english again. And now I had to tell it to the english phone support again. PLEASE FORWARD MAILS ADOBE support is not even capable of doing that.))

So first he suggested I bring back my computer to apple, because the video card must be corrupt, but I convinced him, that it runs fine with other software (yes, the one with the X).

D700s may be at fault, but I am not convinced, since the similar glitches happened with fine cards on 10.9.3 if Im not mistaken.

He couldn't help me with that.

I had also a different issue, if I exchange R3D raw to prores proxies, playback is 2x the size (paused the image looks fine, hitting play it scales up).

I was able to reproduce it on my macbook with CUDA as well, so hardware issue here is out of question.

He couldn't help me with that either, but he wanted reproduce the issue.

So our 1 hour talk had maybe 10 minutes of actual talk, and 50 minutes of waiting for him to come back from probably talking to a technician, who didn't speak english. I don't know where he was.

In the end he asked me to send him the footage I was working on. I wonder if anyone ever did that. I can not do it, because most jobs don't allow you to just send raw material to 3rd party. Is it common in the USA ?

Why did he want to get it is a really funny story.

He said, Adobe support didn't have the resources to get their hands on R3D raw material.

Thats official Adobe statement, support is just facing hard time getting R3D raw files.

Im an editor, and just for testing purposes I keep all kinds of different material from different cameras. I suggest you do the same, and I wish to be moderately compensated for improving your workflow.

(I would suggest, ask for Finchers Social Network files, if you are out of options, there must be some MX, even though most of it was shot with beta version of the newer camera (mysterium maybe?))

So now Im waiting for an official statement, that Adobe support is facing a hard time getting their hands on R3D raw, and a callback from someone higher up, who might be able to actually help me.

No solutions for now.

[benita]

I wonder if you could comment on Windows vs Mac, I'm wondering if PCs are playing nicer with Adobe than the new Mac Pros? I'm considering abandoning Apple on account of this mess. I don't want to abandon Adobe yet.

[ostacy]

If you only want to use adobe, I would say your best bet is a high end PC with Nvidia.

I think Adobe is struggling with OpenCL, and this causes most of the issues.

Nvidia uses CUDA, and that works with less issues to my knowledge.

I wouldn't waste money on HP or Dell, because they charge a lot for the name, but support, at least in Eastern Europe, seems to be weak.

Build your own PC!

I think Intel already has 6 core i7s, which should perform great.

[carlosq00]

I have to agree with ooopeter on the build your own PC if you are going the PC route...unless you have the budget to replace a Dell or HP. I switched over to Mac about 7 years ago...prior to Mac I used to use Alienware Desktop PCs and they worked great...but they are also loud. The advantage for me at the time was the high end graphics gaming performance that allowed me to leverage that in Video Editing without purchasing the Pro Video cards...yes, budget was an issue and that was a good fix. Even then though, the desktop maxed out with Overclocked processors, RAM and SSD RAID array blah blah blah was close to 6K without monitors, keyboard, or mouse...I am not great at the build it yourself type of thing, and again from a price point at the time it was a good option. I did not work exclusively on video at the time and R3D had just come out...most of my work is around television commercials or corporate video production. The more business I got the more frustrated I got with the flavors of software available on PC...lack of consistency with how applications behave and Operating System tweaks, changes, viruses, patches and so on made it an easy choice for me to transition to Mac. Now after all of the problems we've faced with the new MacPro...I like the rest of the people in this situation feel a little bit like I was taken advantage of. Although, I upgraded to the new Mac Pro on my own...with the understanding that new technology requires testing and it will have glitches...I just did not expect to have some of the problems that I've dealt along with the hit on the reputation, the frustration and the time = revenue aspect of things...So for now and until I get my confidence back, I am doing two things...Using my iMac which I still have that has Nvidia cards in it when I have to work on a project that I started or have to edit in Premier Pro CC...or it is a personal project that will not cost me $$$...other than that, I've been using Final Cut X. To be clear, although I have no problems at all with FinalCut X - I prefer Premier Pro and hope that I have enough positive feedback from people like @ooopeter over time to give me the confidence to go back to using it exclusively...Going the PC route after the investment (we bought 3) it is not really an option. Sorry about the long winded post.

[ostacy]

I'm in the same field: commercials, and corporate video.

We usually work at super tight - next to impossible schedules. We can not afford random bad renders.

I agree 100% with everything you said.

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi CueND,

CueND wrote:

I prefer Premier Pro and hope that I have enough positive feedback from people like @ooopeter over time to give me the confidence to go back to using it exclusively...Going the PC route after the investment (we bought 3) it is not really an option. Sorry about the long winded post.

I can understand your frustration regarding the new Mac Pro. You buy this new piece of equipment with reasonable expectations that it should function (albeit with small issues expected) and problems occur out of the gate. I know I would be upset if this happened to me. Fortunately, working with our partners at Apple and AMD, we were able to make a fix for OS X 10.9.4 that has helped most of our users avoid the issue with pink lines in certain exports.

Unfortunately, we see an example of where the fix didn't work with Oresztesz's posts. I'm going to make sure the team knows that the fix did not work for all our customers, so we will continue to work with our partners until the problem goes away. I'm hopeful that when Oresztesz rebooted the computer, the problem will not occur any longer.

I ask that you install OS X 10.9.4 on your new Mac Pro and at least try some test or personal projects with it. My hope is that you will not have the issues users had prior to OS X 10.9.4. I apologize for any problems you may have had in the past.

Thanks,
Kevin

[ostacy]

Hi Kevin!

I am very happy to see, that you started to investigate it really

thoroughly.

As for your question:

I can. Regarding your ProRes proxy files, are they the same frame size as

the originals, or did you scale them down? Need more info here.

I kept the original size with the proxies (4096x2304), so when I’m

exchanging it to the R3D, there wouldn’t be any issues with the scaling

data.

Thanks again!

I hope, you can figure out something!

oresztesz

[EditorPete]

Hi Kevin,

As you are aware of the other thread on the New Mac Pro and OS 10.9.4 outputs getting infused with artifacts....I wanted to ask if you have passed along to your engineers that, the people with artifacts remaining, with all current updates, seem to have a small common physical attribute, that I've noticed. It seems 4K RED files are a somewhat common theme. Is that something you and your team are experiencing as well and/or investigating?

Thanks,

Pete