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Premiere Pro CS6 - Multicam is BROKEN!!! vs FCPX, (Final Cut Pro) FCP7, Avid, Sony Vegas

Enthusiast ,
Sep 20, 2012 Sep 20, 2012

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If you are thinking of switching from FCP7 or FCPX or Avid or another editing program to Premiere Pro CS6, there are MANY great reasons to do so, HOWEVER, if you deal with editing multiple cameras (multicam) then you may want to think twice about it until this issue is resolved.

How to edit multicam in Adobe Premiere Pro CS6? What is the best editing program for mulitcam or multiple camera editing? -  The answer, until the issue below is fixed, is NOT Adobe Premiere Pro! As of CS6 (version 6.0.2), this "design" flaw or "quirk" described below makes multicam editing very difficult and inefficient in Premiere Pro. Those first two questions above are what I google searched in hope of a fix to an issue that has plagued Adobe Premiere Pro for years, literally. Unfortunately, in the new Premiere CS6, with so many other great new features, the issue still remains making it very difficult to do a multicam edit compared to FCPX, Final Cut Pro 7, Avid, Sony Vegas, etc. They all handle multicam editing in different ways but, having recently switched away from FCP7, and worked on several mulitcam edits, Premiere Pro CS6 (and CS5, and CS5.5) has serious issues/problems with the multicam feature that is broken as of right now (version 6.0.2) in Premiere CS6 and makes editing multicam a VERY frustrating experience and much less efficient compared to other NLE's. If its a design, then its flawed as yes, you can get around it and fix what you've done, but why should you have to keep wasting valuble time "fixing" things like this anyway? Just doesn't make sense.


The issue:

Hitting the spacebar or pause or stop button during a multicam edit actually stops the edit, makes a cut in your edit (timeline), and then switches to a different camera (angle or shot) whether you want it to or not!

This issue has been known by Adobe for over two years but they push it aside, call it a design quirk, and ultimately avoid fixing the issue as noted in this thread: http://forums.adobe.com/thread/738084?start=0&tstart=0

Having your editing program make cuts and switch angles on you when you simply pause or stop playback is a huge issue. If this were happening in the normal timeline then I'm guessing it would have been fixed, but it hasn't been fixed and it causes the editor to have to go back and remove the un-intended cuts and switch shots back to where they should be. The PAUSE button should only PAUSE or STOP the playback as it does in other programs. But in Premiere it pauses, makes a cut in your timeline, and then switches back to the first angle or shot that you started with whether you want to or not. There is no way to stop this from happening as of right now on CS6. The other thread that talks about the issue brings up the fact that the "issue does not have the numbers" to make it a priority to be fixed and there are other "more important issues" that need to be fixed first which makes me wonder if Adobe really does listen to their user's feedback. I mean, 2 years of people complaining about this and no fixes. Their response has been "add it to the wish list" or "it's not a bug, its a quirk, so make a feature request" or "its designed that way." Designed that way? Who would actually want it that way? No other NLE does this and for good reason. If the pause button just paused playback and that's it, do you think there would be a thread lasting for 2 years about how hitting pause "should also make a cut in the timeline and switch shots"? I doubt it. Its a design flaw. I feel strange asking for the feature "please make the pause button pause" or "please make the stop button stop playback". Sounds like its broken to me.

If multicam fuctionality is a major focus for the Adobe Premiere team going forward, which I believe it is, then please start by making even the basic functions work as one would expect them to. PAUSE=PAUSE. STOP=STOP. Whew! That was tough. Done. Fixed. Moving on! Right now, this design is counter-productive, not intuitive, helps no one, and only wastes valuable time while the editor has to quickly "fix" the issue. 

Well, I figured I'd do two things here:

1) Start a thread with as many keywords as possible so that this issue gets "the numbers" both in this forum and in Google searches. Hopefully soon when you google "Premiere Pro multicam" this will be the first topic on the first page. My hope is that I can put a nice "SOLVED" or "FIXED" label on this thread one day soon (and I will for sure!). If that's the case, its a testament to the squeeky wheel theory combined with a little web analytics.

2) Make this a new thread rather than continue in the old thread because it's time to ask a new question: how long will it take for Adobe to fix an issue when its design is essentially broken causing all users to have to do a "fix" every time? Right now it's going on two years! This isn't a feature request...its a broken function within Premiere. A design...flaw. I do know Adobe listens and that they care about certain things, but how fast do they act? That's my real question.

I wonder if this thread will populate with more "we've got more important things to fix" or "it isn't that big of an issue" or "its not an issue at all, its a quirk" or "you can just go back and fix the problem every time you have to stop as it only takes a few seconds" or "its not broken, its designed to be counter-productive and frustrating to users".  Time will tell. Well, if you do as many mulitcam edits as I do then those "few seconds" add up. If it is designed that way, then Adobe, I ask you this: If you hit the pause button on your TV remote and it paused the live TV, but then also turned the volume all the way down and changed channels...would you still just call that a quirk? Would it make sense to design a remote that way? I'd say that the button on your remote doesn't work right and should be fixed. Yes, you could fix it quickly by hitting the "last" or "recall" button and then hitting the volume up button, but shouldn't the PAUSE button on your remote do just that and only that: PAUSE?

Please, do respond...we apparently need the numbers.

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Adobe Employee , Sep 25, 2012 Sep 25, 2012

Have you tried what a user suggested earlier in the thread? Although it takes a little getting used to, it works for me perfectly.

"Before to stop the playback press the key 0 (zero) of the keyboard and then you can stop the play (with the Space bar) without the cut in the timeline."

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Explorer ,
Sep 25, 2012 Sep 25, 2012

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Hey Kevin,

Thank you for clarifying your role, and detailed explanation. I want to say that sometimes I have been heavy-handed or hot-headed about this issue, and for that I apologize. Cooler heads prevail. It's also not personal to you, Kevin. I have also had other unrelated experiences with Adobe (and I realize Adobe is a HUGE company) that also color my opinions sometimes.  Sometimes in the digital world it is easy to lose perspective of what is really important, and I am guilty at times. 

This is something many of us desperately want fixed. It is totally disruptive to the way in which we do our edits. It's not that we are trying to be difficult. We are just trying to edit the way we always have, and whether or not that is the "right" way is subjective to some degree - but I think anyone would agree that putting an unintended cut anywhere in a timeline just by stopping playback is not proper behavior. That is what many of us have been trying to get you to concede. If you can get on board with this being a bug and not a feature request/wish list, it might get fixed faster... maybe?

I'm glad to know you are talking to the software team about this issue. I have mentioned before that this is a "dealbreaker" - and what I mean by that specifically is that I cannot use Premiere for multicam until this issue is fixed - it is that disruptive for me. It's not an inconvenience - it is a hinderance, and a bad enough one that I am forced to use alternatives until this is fixed.

Please, please, please - classify this as a bug, admit the problem, and maybe we can get it sooner rather than later.  I do love so much of Premiere - it's a complete shame that I can't do all my work in it without sacrificing my time and energy working around this.

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Adobe Employee ,
Sep 25, 2012 Sep 25, 2012

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Bill,

Sorry, I can't file a new bug as the team already knows about the issue. At least you now know they are aware of the problem.

Have you tried the workaround? Tap the 0 key and then hit the Space Bar. I think this works OK for what you wish to do.

Kevin Monahan - Sr. Community & Engagement Strategist – Pro Video and Audio

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 25, 2012 Sep 25, 2012

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Kevin Monahan wrote:

Before I got into the software biz, I was an editor just like you. Back then, I found it hard to understand why fixes couldn't be made more quickly by companies like Apple or Avid. For example, some things about FCP never "got fixed" through seven full versions, and will forever remain broken, despite me being very vocal about those problems in forums like this. I found that an enhancement like the one you're requesting, might break several other things, or might require a full rewrite of the code for that interface. There are also priorities based on user feedback. We, as editors, can't know about these difficulties, but should be aware of them. Creating software is complex and time consuming. To change an interface feature, like the multicamera monitor, might take more than a few versions to satisfy editors.

Oh boy. Don't I know about some of the things in FCP that never "got fixed" through 7 versions. That's why I was glad to switch to another NLE. There's a lot to like about FCPX. There's a lot to like about Premiere Pro. My fear, like Bill's and many others, is that by calling this a feature request and not a broken functionality will push it to the end of the priority line and we'll see CS6, CS7, CS8 and so on before we see it this "get fixed". I totally understand the hierarchy of programming. I do. And I know its not simple because everything is interconnected and you can't just say "make the pause button pause" or something simple like that. It goes much deeper and may, as you say require a full rewrite of the code for that interface. My brother works for Sony doing web coding and I know first hand that requests for "simple fixes" aren't always as simple as they appear. But your next sentence says it all: "There are also priorities based on user feedback" My goal in creating this new thread was not to make you aware of the issue because you (bing the staff of Adobe, not necessarily you personally) were aware of it in 2010. It was to make it a priority. That won't be done overnight. I know. But with every new post to the thread and every new user who wonders "WTF?!" when they sit down to do their first multicam edit, they'll know there's a clear thread that is alive and well that addresses this issue and maybe one day will move its way up the google search ladder until you can't miss the fact that its broken when you search for "Premiere Pro Multicam". Maybe then it'll get more user feedback because it'll get more hits and it'll be a bigger priority. It just so happens that this drives me nuts every day of the week as I edit full time 6 days a week. There are other actual true "FEATURES" that I wish CS6 would incorporate that either FCP7 or FCPX have, but those things are actual "features" that would simply ENHANCE the user experience...unlike this, which is something that without it the basic functionality of the workflow is crippled.

I'm glad there is an apparent workaround. But that still doesn't take away from the fact that its a broken feature and should be fixed. If multicam is a priority for the Premiere Pro team, then fixing a broken feature that is integral to is basic functionality should be a top priority. I get the feeling though that its not. So I'll keep checking in. I'm stubborn that way But its only for the greater good as I desperately want to stamp "RESOLVED" on the top of this thread and be able to whole heartedly recommend PPro to other users in forums/threads/etc. I can't however until its actually resolved. Like I said before I do appreciate your help. You've been great. I agree with Bill in pretty much everything his last post says. It would be a shame if a while from now we're saying the same things about Premiere that drove so many of us away from FCP7 in so far as their tendency to leave things broken for years and years and years.

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Explorer ,
Sep 26, 2012 Sep 26, 2012

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Again, stop saying that multicam is "broken". It is NOT BROKEN! It was designed to work the way it works.

Yes, it is not the "standard" for multicam editing. Yes, it should be changed as has been suggested by MANY people.

But, it is NOT BROKEN OR A BUG! It works exactely as it was programed to work.

My issue is that posts like this one make Premiere Pro sound like a bad program, and unprofessional. Premiere Pro is an excellent program is by far one of the best, IMO (and many others). Posts like this one have the potential to turn away users that may LOVE Premiere Pro and find the work arounds or alternate way of doing things perfectly acceptable.

Kevin said "we read and consider every single feature request". This is where the efforts of those that want a change should be focused. The engineers don't have time to read these forums since they are busy writing code for the next group of improvements/fixes/versions.  So the energy spent "complaining" on the forums would be much better spent rallying the masses to submit feature requests so the engineers will actually see the "issues".

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 26, 2012 Sep 26, 2012

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Jason R Brandt wrote:

Kevin said "we read and consider every single feature request". This is where the efforts of those that want a change should be focused. The engineers don't have time to read these forums since they are busy writing code for the next group of improvements/fixes/versions.  So the energy spent "complaining" on the forums would be much better spent rallying the masses to submit feature requests so the engineers will actually see the "issues".

Exactly. And the only way to "rally the masses" is to get their attention. Saying multicam is broken is not entirely untrue IMO. PPro is a great system, but a basic functionality within its multicam workflow is flawed and this thread is designed to catch peoples attention and encourage them to request that this issue gets fixed. The previous thread on this topic was "multicam making un-intended cuts" which is very nice and sweet but I doubt it caught anyone's eye and obviously went untouched by Adobe for 2 years. Saying Premiere Pro Multicam is broken should catch people's attention like it caught yours. Call it what you want but the functionality of the pause or stop button is broken within Multicam. Calling it anything else is reminds me of when Bill Clinton said he did not have "sexual relations" with Ms. Lewinski. Again, my hope is that this thread catches peoples attention, eventually works its way up the google search ladder, and then one day when new users see it and click on it in alarm over what is "broken" they'll see a big fat "SOLVED" next to the topic and know that Adobe listens to their users like they say they don't and don't just let broken things go like FCP did for so many years as Kevin pointed out in his previous post. If that happens, then that in my opinion is energy well spent.

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New Here ,
Sep 26, 2012 Sep 26, 2012

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Jason R Brandt wrote:

But, it is NOT BROKEN OR A BUG! It works exactely as it was programed to work.

You're right, it's not broken or a bug. It's a DESIGN FLAW that causes a lot of frustration and extra work for many many serious editors who need to use the multicam feature on a daily basis.

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Explorer ,
Sep 26, 2012 Sep 26, 2012

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Jack KDS wrote:

You're right, it's not broken or a bug. It's a DESIGN FLAW that causes a lot of frustration and extra work for many many serious editors who need to use the multicam feature on a daily basis.

I'm good with calling it a design flaw. That more accurately describes the problem. That at least helps potential users understand that it is still usable.

Thank you for the better verbage!

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Adobe Employee ,
Sep 26, 2012 Sep 26, 2012

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Guys, I told you that the team knows about the issue. Nothing we can do about it unless you submit a feature request: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

Yesterday, I cut a simple multicam sequence and pressed the 0 key before the Space bar to pause playback. Seriously, it didn't take me long to get used to that. By all means, please try it. It's definitely the way to pause playback without introducing a cut.

Until the interface is changed, we are going to have to live with it working this way. I'm going to look into why it won't work on certain combinations of Premiere Pro and Mac computers.

Kevin Monahan - Sr. Community & Engagement Strategist – Pro Video and Audio

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Participant ,
Sep 26, 2012 Sep 26, 2012

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Hi Kevin.

In fact the stop record workaround isn't working either on my older MBP running PP 6.0.2 and OSX Lion 10.7.5

I tried using another key than 0 without success. Clicking the record toggle button won't work either (still creates an edit point)

If that can help : my PP version come from a creative cloud membership, and I installed them in english language on macs with french OSX and azerty keyboards. The MBP is a model A1260-2198 2.5 Ghz Core 2 Duo and the iMac is a model A1312-2429 3.4 Ghz Core i7.

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Adobe Employee ,
Sep 26, 2012 Sep 26, 2012

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Thanks for your report KGCW, I'll look into it. It would be great if you could submit a bug report: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

Kevin Monahan - Sr. Community & Engagement Strategist – Pro Video and Audio

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Participant ,
Sep 26, 2012 Sep 26, 2012

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Done.

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 26, 2012 Sep 26, 2012

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Kevin Monahan wrote:

Thanks for your report KGCW, I'll look into it. It would be great if you could submit a bug report: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

Wow. I'm sorry for being persistent here (granted I do get all these responses emailed to me), but I find it funny that when a possible workaround (or as I like to call it...a "longwayaround") for a debilitating issue doesn't work for some people it gets classified as a BUG. ... But yet the basic debilitating function that's clearly broken, flawed, and needs to be fixed so that the existence of a workaround is unneccessary to begin with...that gets classified as a FEATURE request that maybe, just maybe, some day Adobe will implement...once all the bugs are fixed of course.

Wow.  C'mon Adobe. 

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Explorer ,
Sep 26, 2012 Sep 26, 2012

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There is a difference here. The "bug" is something that is actually not doing what it is programed to do. (1+1=3)

The multicam edit works the way it was programed to. (1+1=2) The problem is the answer isn't one you like. (YES, I KNOW, lot's of people don't like the answer) But it is giving the answer it was programed to give.

Multicam works the way Adobe intended it to.

Apparently the people who want it changed are the minority since it hasn't been changed. Adobe isn't stupid and wouldn't let a MAJOR problem continue. (And I don't consider this a major problem. The other way would be better, but I've seen lots of ways to "deal" with it if it's not to your liking.)

Sorry, I'm just getting very frustrated with the negative posts that state incorrect information.

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Enthusiast ,
Sep 26, 2012 Sep 26, 2012

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It's all in the wording I guess.

Don't get frustrated by this fight. It's not important to you but to me and many others who deal with it on a daily basis we consider it a major problem. Premiere is a great program no doubt. But until this is fixed, I'll call it broken. You disagree about that wording and that's okay. It's harsh, yes, but its worded that way to catch people's attention and bring users from all over to this thread so that they too recognize this flaw and submit a request to have this fixed and we can all go about our merry way.

If there was a 3rd option beyond "feature" and "bug" to make this problematic issue a higher priority I would call it that. But sadly, there's not. It's just hard for me to wrap my head around putting this in the same category as other feature requests like "Audio Sync", etc. which would make the multicam workflow better. That is a legitimate feature. This flaw is not. We all agree that Premiere is a great program and I have no doubt they are constantly working to make it even better...but until this get's fixed, in my little world MULTICAM IS BROKEN...to me.

Sure I can make it work. In a round-about way. And yes, its doing what it was designed to do. But that doesn't take away from the fact that no one in their right mind would ever WANT it to work the way it's designed currently. Don't get frustrated. This will be a very POSITIVE post some day soon when this issue is fixed. That's my goal.

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New Here ,
Sep 26, 2012 Sep 26, 2012

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Jason R Brandt wrote:

(And I don't consider this a major problem. The other way would be better, but I've seen lots of ways to "deal" with it if it's not to your liking.)

Just because it's not a major problem for you, doesn't mean it isn't for others. It's less a matter of personal preference and more of a dysfunctional hurtle for those of us who trip over it all day long (and yes, you're right, not every editor uses the multicam function).

Now whether people call it a bug or a flaw or a feature is purely a linguistic issue, not worth your frustration and dissent. Yes, it functions the way it was designed and programmed to function. In that sense it's not broken. But when put into practice it breaks the editor's flow and decreases efficiency. There may not be a bug in the code, but there's certainly a bug in the experience.

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Participant ,
Sep 26, 2012 Sep 26, 2012

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Jason I think we all got your point by now. So can you please stop continuously getting back to this "it works the way adobe intended it to" stuff ? This is not worth your time.

I agree with DMH79, even if I'm frustrated that the workaround does not work anymore for me because of a bug, I think it is not what should be given priority. You know, like, an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

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Explorer ,
Sep 26, 2012 Sep 26, 2012

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You're right. This is not worth my time.

However, I think you would think it would be worth the time to try and change someone saying "KGCW's editting is bad and projects are not usable." Simply because your workflow is not the same as theirs, or follows "standards".

Adobe has done an amazing job, and multicam does work.

Now I'm done, and yes I've filled the same feature request as the rest of you.

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New Here ,
Sep 26, 2012 Sep 26, 2012

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Kevin,

Thanks for your attention to this issue. I'm adding my voice (again) in support of Adobe addressing this bug/feature request. I love a lot about PrPro since switching from FCP, but this is a sticking point that really irks me as I have to multicam endless hours on a weekly basis. Work-arounds are nice but not nearly as efficient as  the flow could/should be.

The other thing that would really help is auto-sync based on audio waveform (yes I've made a feature request), like a built-in Plural-Eyes function. That would be awesome.

Regards,

Jack Lenk

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Enthusiast ,
Oct 02, 2012 Oct 02, 2012

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So sorry that this is such a dealbreaker for you and others on this thread. I wish I could snap my fingers and make the fix for you, but I can't. However, I'll do my best for you regarding pointing more attention to this issue. If there are others on the thread that have not filed a bug, please do so right now: http://www.adobe.com/go/wish

Thanks.

Looks like there's new update but a major functionality within multicam is still essentially broken.

Bummer.

6.0.3 was a Windows only update I know. Great that Adobe is always fixing things but would be nice to fix something that's been broken for years that cripples a major part of the program.

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LEGEND ,
Oct 02, 2012 Oct 02, 2012

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LATEST

Posting the same opinion over and over again in a topic is pointless.  The OP has been answered.  Thread locked.

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