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RED IPP2 Implementation (April 2018): Major Dropped Frame Issues, Very Slow Performance Compared to v12.0.1, and Adobe Player Errors

New Here ,
Apr 09, 2018 Apr 09, 2018

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**** I've also posted this message in the Adobe Premiere Bug Submission forum. Just looking for some additional support or answers here. ****

I’ve been very excited for full RED IPP2 implementation to hit Premiere. However, when loading up older project files with footage using the Legacy Image Pipeline - I'm seeing about half the performance I did previously. A huge number of dropped frames and stuttering footage at resolution playback ratios that I haven't had issues with even the prior Premiere release (12.0.1). I’m also noticing similar performance for IPP2.

I’m running on an 18-core iMac Pro with Vega 64 and 64 GB of RAM, project playing back from a G-Speed 48TB Shuttle in RAID10. Needless to say, I’m on a fast computer and shouldn’t have much issue. The only clips I’m working with are RED 8K Helium R3Ds.

In Premiere 12.1 (April 2018), with RED Helium 8K footage playing back at 1/4 resolution in a 4K timeline - I’m noticing major dropped frames in playback. Moving down to 1/8, I’m seeing just as many dropped frames. 1/2 is nearly unplayable at times - it feels like I’m getting 2FPS.

Footage typically plays back flawlessly for 5-7 seconds before the frames start dropping. When loading up an old project, I’m noticing that the Master Clip’s RED setting is displaying Legacy Image Pipeline, but not displaying Color Space or Gamma Curve options. They’re both unelectable. Another set of Color Space and Gamma Curve drop downs appear under it for some reason. Both unelectable.

I created a new project with Legacy footage and the drop down options came up for these doubled up options as:
- Color Space: DragonColor2
- Gamma Curve: REDlogFilm
- Color Space: REDWideGamutRGB
- Gamma Curve: Log 3G10

These secondary Color Space and Gamma Curve options should not be coupled together with the top two. I’m not sure if this is what is causing the playback errors by doing double the processing.

I then created a new project with IPP2 footage. I’m seeing the same performance issues: 1/2 plays at about 1-2 frames per second, 1/4 drops frames consistently, and 1/8 plays well. (Although this is still not ideal for an 18-core iMac Pro that has had no previous playback issues.)

In Premiere 12.0.1 (Previous Release), with RED Helium 8K footage playing back at 1/4 resolution in a 4K timeline - I mostly saw one or two dropped frames every few minutes. At 1/8 resolution, I could play back my media flawlessly. I could also typically play back 1/2 resolution without many dropped frames when the footage is not highly detailed. This is with the same Legacy footage and projects being tested in the new April 2018 release.

For comparison, REDCINE-X can play back both my IPP2 and Legacy footage at 1/2 resolution flawlessly with no dropped frames. At 1/4 I’m seeing a very healthy buffer and 1/8 nearly loads instantly.

Things I’ve tried:
- Deleting Premiere and deleting my preferences.
- Starting a new project with the same footage.
- Importing the old project into a new project.
- Trying different playback engines including Metal and Software Only. (I’m currently using OpenCL.)
- Reloading my RMDs in attempt to fix the imported settings.
- Attempting to switch the Image Pipeline and settings within the Master Clip RED settings.

All attempts to fix these performance issues have given no results.

Things to do to replicate the issue (on a Mac):
- Use RED 8K Helium R3Ds
- Color for Legacy in REDCINE-X
- Import footage into Adobe Premiere Pro v12.0.1
- Create a 4K timeline
- Note playback smoothness and dropped frames for 1/2, 1/4, and 1/8 resolution
- Update Premiere to v12.1 (April 2018)
- Open project
- Check the Master Clip settings to see if the Color and Gamma settings are not working / duplicated
- Note playback smoothness and dropped frames for 1/2, 1/4, and 1/8 resolution
- Color additional RED 8K Helium R3Ds in REDCINE-X as IPP2
- Note playback speed in REDCINE-X
- Import into a new project in v12.1
- Create a 4K Timeline
- Note playback smoothness and dropped frames for 1/2, 1/4, and 1/8 resolution

Another note - on a few select projects, my RED footage will not load at all and I’m receiving an Adobe Player low-level error. (I’ve seen numbers following this error including .79 and .60, although it changes every time I restart.) I’m unable to duplicate this issue.

Overall, I’m fairly disappointed that after all this waiting and excitement - I’m getting extremely terrible performance when editing both Legacy and IPP2 R3Ds natively within Premiere v12.1 (April 2018). I would have assumed better performance with the new RED SDK, and not to drop massive amounts of frames in playback.

One final question that I’ve been wondering about playback. I was wondering why playback at 1/8, 1/4, and 1/2 use different percentages of my CPU, but never 100%. 1/8th only caps out at 10% CPU usage, 1/4 only uses 30% of my CPU (and still has dropped frames), and 1/2 uses about 75% (and still has dropped frames). Surprisingly, exporting unlocks my full CPU for decoding. I wasn’t sure why playback at all resolutions doesn’t attempt to use as much CPU power as possible? This would greatly enhance performance and playback. (Similarly, REDCINE-X tends to use 100% CPU despite the playback resolution.)

Anyway, I deeply apologize for such a longwinded bug report. I truly hope we can resolve all these issues, because I don’t want to turn to another editing application for the foreseeable future. It was deeply upsetting that there are so many performance issues with the new RED SDK implementation, and I’m not sure how to have them addressed. Much appreciation.

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correct answers 1 Correct answer

Adobe Employee , Apr 19, 2018 Apr 19, 2018

Nope, the 12.1.1 was mostly to address the PNG transparency bug that hit mac users.

The changes here are more involved & will require an SDK drop from RED, whom we're coordinating with for the next patch.

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New Here ,
Apr 14, 2018 Apr 14, 2018

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I'm having the exact same problems!

When I adjust any of the settings in the master clip tab they don't update until I go back to the timeline, hit play, and wait 5-10 seconds.

Also output tonemap and highlight rolloff DON'T DO ANYTHING! I've tried everything but my contrast and highlight rolloff won't change. Everything still looks like it's in log.

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New Here ,
Apr 14, 2018 Apr 14, 2018

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Hey Patrick,

Do me a favor and vote this up over at the Adobe Bug / Suggestion forum, just so it hopefully gains a little bit of traction:

RED IPP2 Implementation (April 2018): Major Dropped Frame Issues, Very Slow Performance Compared to ...

I'm sure it took a bit of work to bring the new SDK into the new version of Premiere, and I could see how some settings may not be working correctly... but I'm extremely confused as to how performance just dropped. I've made a pact with my team that if this isn't resolved by the time Resolve 15 comes out of beta - we'll all probably be switching software.

But you're right, I'm seeing similarly. The timeline takes about 10-15 seconds to start after I hit play. I'm not sure what happened on Adobe's end, but I would have figured they'd test implementation on different computer systems with different sets of footage / projects.

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Adobe Employee ,
Apr 14, 2018 Apr 14, 2018

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My experience so far is that it seems to be Helium specific - I didn't see these performance drops with Dragon 6K footage, for instance.  I also think it's worse for longer clips (ie, the higher the split file count, since RED creates spanned file sets of 4 Gig files, the bigger the clip open times, as there's more file segments to traverse).

PM me Anthony - we're working on getting some performance improvements in the next SDK drop.  If you're interested in trying it out, I might be able to arrange something.

Wil

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New Here ,
Apr 19, 2018 Apr 19, 2018

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Hey Wil, I just sent over a PM. You're probably correct about it being Helium specific, I didn't get a chance to open any old Dragon projects to see if they had any issues.

As with any brand new implementation - I understand that not everything might be in its correct place optimization wise. I do hope the odd Adobe Player errors and slow downs can be figured out between v12.0.1 and v12.1 though, as I was mostly surprised to see the dropped frames even occurring in Legacy footage - which I had assumed would have had the same performance.

Does v12.1.1 address any of these issues? Just saw it pop up today.

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Adobe Employee ,
Apr 19, 2018 Apr 19, 2018

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Nope, the 12.1.1 was mostly to address the PNG transparency bug that hit mac users.

The changes here are more involved & will require an SDK drop from RED, whom we're coordinating with for the next patch.

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Community Beginner ,
Apr 19, 2018 Apr 19, 2018

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I am not having performance issues with Scarlet Weapon footage. 5K 24-50fps have been tested so far. But the tone map and highlight roll off function do not work at all. Although when I put an IPP2 LUT onto a clip things get funky. It seems that the tone mapping function appears to try and work but then the LUT gets applied and the footage looks horrible because its getting mapped twice. Disappointing update to say the least. Hopefully the kinks get worked out ASAP..

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Adobe Employee ,
Apr 19, 2018 Apr 19, 2018

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That's probably a stacking order issue, as the IPP controls are applied as params to the RED decoder;  if you're then applying a LUT in the Lumetri panel, it's processing the results of what's already been done by IPP/RED, so yeah, that would be a double mapping.  I think what you want to do here is to apply the LUT in the IPP section;  you'll notice that here it only will list the ones reported by the camera metadata, so the trick is to set the LUT in RED CINE-X on the clip;  Premiere will then see the LUT listed in the metadata and will display it as an option in the IPP controls.

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New Here ,
Nov 09, 2022 Nov 09, 2022

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For me issues of drop frames with RED stuff, that previously played perfectly,started in late oct and is continuing with no help from tech.  Also seems to play ok for 6-7 seconds then starts dropping alot of frames.  over and over.

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