SLog3 footage coming in with LUT applied, unable to change or remove.

[Hecubus114]

I recently update to Premiere 2022, and now I am unable to grade ir color correct any footage I import from my Sony FX6. The clips are SLog3. When I import them into Premiere, they have the appearance of a LUT already having been applied (I assume rec709, as that it about hwo I expect them to look). However, if I click on any clip, and interpret footage, Premiere claims no LUT has been applied. Oddly enough, if I open any of the source clips, they appear correct (flat, with no color grading applied). But if I bring them into the timeline, they become just like all the others, with the colors changed. Source tab for any clips in the effects window is completely empty, so there is no LUT there to remove.

Especially frustrating is that I CANNOT change/grade/color correct any of the clips beyond how Premiere imports them. Not adjustments in Lumetri have any impact. I don't feel like I am doing anything incorrectly here, but perhaps there is something I am overlooking about how this works in the new version? I did everything exactly the same in the previous version, and had zero issues like this.

Specs:

Premiere 22.0.0

macOS Big Sur 11.2.1

iMac 27 inch 2019

Processor: 3.6 GHz 8-Core Intel Core i9

Memory:  64 GB 2400 MHz DDR4

Graphics: Radeon Pro Vega 48 8 GB

[Adnan A. Nazzal]

same issue happened to me , less dynamic range and different colors 

My footage was taken by sony FX6.

the only solution i did is i switched back to 2021 version 

[R Neil Haugen]

Did you do any color management work with that in Premiere ... which is (bizarrely to me) in the Project panel ... right-click, Modify/Interpret Footage ...

Neil

[Shunlee3762730939tp]

interpret footage is grey, it cannot be clicked

[R Neil Haugen]

This is now an ANCIENT thread, as Pr2024 is radically different in color managment options ... and locations ... from the 2022 version.

So it would be better to create a new thread, with screen grabs of your Lumetri Panel Settings tab cm  settings and list of the media you  use and how it's created.

[Frederick26086620bbs5]

figured it out! My GF did actually. 

[Frederick26086620bbs5]

https://community.adobe.com/t5/premiere-pro-discussions/faq-how-to-fix-saturated-over-exposed-hlg-hd...

[Frederick26086620bbs5]

You have to go to modify >interpret footage>color space overide>709

[JOHN MONDO]

Sad to report this is not working for me. I have random SLOG3 clips from my FX3 that have imported with a LUT applied. Not all of them - just some. The colorspace override trick does not work. You can't even tell they don't have a LUT applied until you export. Unworkable. 23.5.0 

[R Neil Haugen]

What are the Preferences options for Auto Log Detect and Auto tonemapping set to ... on or off?

Neil

[bam11247]

How has Adobe not fixed this issue yet?! 

[R Neil Haugen]

"Fixed" ... well, that depends on several settings being set to get what you want. And at this time, quite a few users don't even know those settings exist.

Which is why I asked how the auto-log detect and auto tonemapping are set.

Auto-log tells Premiere to apply it's internal tonemapping for that particular log form "on". It only works with log forms the program is designed to recognize. And it's not a LUT, it's a mathematial algorithmic process, way above LUTs in capability. to convert while protecting pixels.

But of course, you are welcome to not use it, and you can un-check it to turn it off. But you do need to know to go turn it OFF if you don't want it. Many don't know it exists.

Auto-tonemapping takes any wide-space (either dynamic range, color space, or both)  media "down" to SDR space, again using an algorithmic process.

Again, you may prefer a different way, but you need to know that this control is there, and set it how you want.

Neil

[bam11247]

It's a BS feature that no one wants!!! It serves 0 purpose!!! It doesn't even get the footage anywhere near an acceptable image! Everything is overblown and clipped and super saturated it is USELESS!!! Get that through your thick skulls over at Adobe!! 

And no it is as simple as turning it off. I'm sick and tired of having to manually highlight all my newly importing footage, going to modify-interpret footage- and color space overide back to 709. 

[R Neil Haugen]

First, I'm NOT "Adobe". I'm another user, like you. Just trying to help people sort out an often confusing setup for practical reasons.

Next, I really don't understand, and do want to, when you say "it's a bs feature that no one wants" ... what are you talking about?

In the Olden Days, everything was SDR/Rec.709. Was much easier.

Now, there's a ton of things that really need user choices for different workflows. Some need things you or I don't. We may need things many others don't. And you and I, like all other users, will have different needs.

But any NLE must allow for a wide array of needs now. The settings must be there ... in fact, more would be better. But it will become more complicated. For instance, I work in Resolve also, and oh my, the range of options, and the places they have options, is incredibly complex.

Trying to accomodate a very divergent set of needs is a daunting task, I'll admit that easily. And no, I don't always like how both Adobe and BlackMagic go about trying to do so.

There isn't any "magic" or "perfect" conversion from X camera's settings to screen settings, and that's the case whether you shoot Red, Sony Venice, Arri, or a Mavic drone. All conversions to a screen space involve both technical and aesthetic choices in building the conversion process. Whether via LUT or tonemapping or other algorithmic process.

I work for/with/teach pro colorists. They all have a wide array of conversion processes they choose depending on camera/scene and how it comes out. Often will choose X process for most clips from a cam but 'this' scene gets Y process.

That's life with so many different forms coming in from cameras with settings all over the place.

Neil

[bam11247]

In Resolve you have the ultimate flexibility to work in whatever color space and conform the colors of your footage to said color space. It isn't complicated at all. Whether you want to work in rec 706, 2020, ACES, everything is the control of the user.

In Premiere however, the stupid program thinks it knows what the user wants and automatically conforms slog footage into an ugly image that is absolutly unusable and unworkable!! Everything is clipped, over contrasty and oversaturated. Please tell us, how is that usable or something that anyone would want??

And we have to keep manually overriding it when we don't want it!! The fact that this thread with so many comments exists is proof that no one likes how Premiere implements this feature.

Is there a way to set our preferences for our working color space so Premeiere will stop auto-converting our slog footage to ugly overblown neon colors?? 

[R Neil Haugen]

As noted above, go to the Preferences and Sequence settings, and check for auto log and auto tonemap options.

They may change the locations at some point, as they are constantly "updating" the processes and capabilities.

As stated, it's your choice. Whether on or off.

Tonemapping ... like LUT use, by the way ... is never intended as the final Look. Just like the conversion LUTs, it's an attempt to get the data as safely as possible migrated to the new space.  With some aesthetic "feel" taken into account. But again, it's a start ... that's all.

No colorist I know (and I work with a lot of them, including many of the top teaching ones) uses any LUT as the be-all end-all. Even a "show" or "look" LUT ... is applied then you grade the material "under" (before the LUT) to fit the final view desired.

So whether LUT or tonemapping is used, additional grading is always expected. By the pros, anyway.

And ... as I'm on staff over at MixingLight, a pro teaching colorist website ... and heavily involved in all sorts of colorists discussions over the years, plus of course being a regular on LGG and other forums ... I don't care who the pro colorist is, they all get questions trying to sort out what Resolve or Baselight is doing with certain conversions.

One of the most common subjects of discussion is always which conversions to use when why and how. Especially as the implications are at times very much under the deeps until you do X after and all Hades happens to your clip.

Neil

[JOHN MONDO]

Hi Neil - I'm not sure about those settings. I'll have to check when back in front of that machine. It doesn't really explain why it's only ramdom clips that have a look applied. I did tru turning the ff auto tone mapping in the sequence box but it made zero difference. I also tried importing the same footage on my laptop and it appeared to work perfectly. Thanks John

[R Neil Haugen]

Fergus has a good post explaining how things are designed to work at this time.

The Slog thing, the variation between clips, can often be due to different Slog in-cam settings. There's what, 3-4 different 'varieties' of Slog, including one that isn't actually log-encoded.

That has tripped up a TON of pro colorists trying to normalize it their normal way, btw. Working in Resolve or baselight.

So ... knowing which precise form of Slog is sadly needed to get predictable results. And that part is certainly not obvious.

Neil

[JOHN MONDO]

Neil to your point - this is Slog3 from the same camera. See my post in response to Fergus for which clips are affected and which are not. And how it doesn't happen on an M1 Mac.

[R Neil Haugen]

John,

Noted. And you're rather experienced enough to know to check the type of Slog a file is. But for many others that will read this ... there's a common tripping point there.

Because there are at least three Slog forms in Sony cameras.

Of the ones I have worked with, two are log forms, and one is a "setting" that looks log-ish. And you can't tell that by name, as they are all Slog-something.

Obviously, the one that is a camera settings (contrast/sat) thing, as it ain't actually log-encoded, is treated differently by Premiere. It's just a standard Rec.709 file.

And that trips up a lot of people. Especially as, at first glance, it's Slog, right? Outta the same camera, right?

Well ... not ... always. Thanks, Sony ... 

[Fergus H]

@bam11247I think there's some confusion in this thread about how Premiere Pro does already work. By default, Premiere Pro does not automatically color manage log footage: it will appear as flat, log footage that you'd apply a LUT and / or use the Lumetri panel to modify. 

The setting that controls this is Settings > General > Auto Detect Log Video Color Space. By default, it's off. (Turning it on will do what in Resolve would be achieved by selecting "DaVinci YRGB Color Managed” and, for most people, isn't their preferred workflow.) That's the most important setting for what you're discussing in this thread. 

The other items to watch out for would be your working color space and whether Auto Tone Map Media is turned on. Both of those settings are in the Sequence Settings dialog. When customers say that they are seeing blown out footage in the Program Monitor, what they are usually seeing is the result of:
1. HDR media (either log when Auto Detect is on) or HLG media (like from an iPhone) where we always use the media's color space. 

2. An SDR timeline
3. The “Auto Tone Map Media” setting being turned off. (It’s on by default.)

As you can imagine, that’s a bad combo: Premiere Pro is being forced to display HDR media on an SDR timeline with no tone mapping. It’ll definitely look terrible. 

We’re currently working on an updated guide to HDR in Premiere Pro and color management in general. We’re also working on a new Settings tab in the Lumetri panel that will put many color settings in a more logical location. That is in beta now and will ship in Fall. 

Lastly, if you’d be interested, I’d be happy to have a Zoom meeting with you to discuss this topic or anything else in Premiere Pro. I’m a Principal Product Manager for Premiere Pro and always very happy to chat with customers. 

Regards,

Fergus

[JOHN MONDO]

I've sorted my issue - it was the proxies which were created with a LUT already applied. This must be a setting inside the FX3 because the A7SIII creates proxies that are log as well. It's weird becaue I did try turning off proxies at one stage and it didn't seem to help but I have since noticed that my monitor won't update sometimes withouthitting play or it takes along while to update.

[joshuam4845412]

Genius! Seriously just saved us. You can also add a LUT onto this and colour correct. 

[Baffy19]

It is better not to use LUT at this stage. This behavior will not allow you to play with the range of colors in the future, since the dynamic range will be cut off at the initial stage.

[kirstyc1092575]

Sorry you seem to have misread my comment. I don't use LUTS. My SLOG3 footage is coming into Prem with an error, the software is applying what looks like a terrible lut to it.

[kirstyc1092575]

Oh no Ive replied to the wrong thread haha sorry! Must be too early in the morning 🥱