Transcript not showing up in sequence or matching back, even though it exists

[Ovidius9000]

Premeire Productions

I have a sequence comprised of 6 multicam clips (synced cameras and audio).   The underlying production audio of those multicams (wave files) has been transcribed.   I can open each ave file in the soruce monitor and I see the transcript in the Text Panel.

But in my sequence, the sixth mulitcam has no transcript.   The transcript ends at the end of the 5th multicam.

If I match back, which loads multicam-6 into the source monitor I don't see any transcript.   If I reaveal the clip in the project and double click it to reload the clip into the source monitor the transcript suddenly appears.   

If I delete multicam-6 from my sequence and put it back in, the same behavior (no transcript) re-occurs.

What's going on?

[jamieclarke]

Hi @Ovidius9000 -   Thanks for submitting your bug report. We need a few more details to try to help with the issue.  What are your computer specs?  What version of Premiere Pro are you on?

[Ovidius9000]

MacOS 14.6.1 / Premier Pro 24.5.0 (Build 57)

I am working in a Premiere Production project. 

Though I'm not sure if I've had this specific issue (a sequence not showing underlying clip transcript) I have noticed a few times that when I match back from my sequence to a mulitcam clip, there will be no transcript.   But if I reveal the clip in the project and double click on it, the transcript will then show up.   It's strange because nothing else changes - in points, playhead, etc all are exactly the same – it just the act of "reloading" the clip that seems to inspire Premiere to show the transcript.

[Ovidius9000]

I should add (since I'm on Productions) this "source clip not showing transcript until reloaded" issue occurs even when the source project is open.  i.e. it is not happening because the source project is not open.  It happens when all projects are open. 

I think it happens even if the sequence and source clip are in the same project (but I'm not positive.  usually, in productions, they would be in separate projects).

[jamieclarke]

Hi @Ovidius9000 - Can you try selecting the multicam clip and navigate to edit in the menu bar then select "Reassociate Source clips" and select the project that the master clips are in.  and then select your project go back to the edit menu bar and select consolidate duplicates.  It seems like some references haven't been updated.

[Ovidius9000]

Ok, here's at least one way in which I'm able to recreate it.   

I have a Sequence of assembled clips (only the source clips are transcribed, in this case it is production audio).   The transcipt works fine.   Then I see an error in the transcription for Clip005, let's call it.   I cannot edit the transcript because I am in a sequence, not at the source clip.   So I double click on the audio track to bring up the source clip and load the production audio into the source monitor.  Now I see the transcript for the production audio and I can edit it.  I fix the erros in the transcription.  So far so good.

But now, I return to my sequence and the transcription is simply gone!  It doesn't say "no transcription", or "transcription error". It has just omitted 5 minutes of material.    I was able to open the underlying project with the production audio by double-clicking on the audi, so clearly the cips are associated correctly.    Why is this happening?

Now, if I close the project and re-open it – it seems to correct the transcript.  But that is CRAZY to me.  How can I trust anything if  Premiere will just erase transcripts without any notice?    If someone asks for a text export of a transcript, I now have to go and check every edit before feeling confident that it is actually complete.  Do you see why this is such a huge issue?

[Stan Jones]

@Ovidius9000,

Thanks, that's helpful. I am testing in a regular, not production, project, and I wonder if there are any differences in how this works. In my opinion, there should not be.

> cannot edit the transcript because I am in a sequence, not at the source clip.

You should be able to. When you enter edit mode in the transcript/sequence view, you should get a pop-up: "Text edits are also saved to the source clip."

But what you are doing should also work. And if you immediately click back to the sequence, you should see the edited transcript.

Stan

[Ovidius9000]

Well maybe this is part of the issue.  It seem Transcripts don't really work well in Productions.   I believe it won't let me edit because the underlying clip (the production audio) is in a different Productions-project.   To be clear, I have no problem with Productions matching back to clips in another project, it is only Transcripts that cause issues.

I think this is also why some mutlicams will say "no dialogue found" when loaded into a source monitor, but if you open them in a timeline  the transcript is fine.    I mean, this the big elephant in the room when it comes to Premiere –– it's project paradigm is horribly clunky and bloated, so they came up with Productions to split things up and to share, but deep down Premiere is still designed to have one huge bloated project and Productions is a bit of a hack.

Anyway, as I've noted previously my largest complaint is that Premiere doesn't "notice" that the transcript is missing.  This problem would be far less distrubing if the Text Panel noted where there is missing information ("no transcribed", "transcript not found", "error", something like that).  Instead it just omits it, meaning it is not to be trusted.

[Ovidius9000]

I tried re-associating and that didn't solve the problem.  The only thing that solves it is going back to the mutlicam clip and cutting it back into the sequence.   But this is the third time I've done that.

To review the issue:  I have a sequence of assembled mutlicams.  In the text panel one of the multicams keeps disappearing from the transcrit.  So in the seuqence multicam 4 shows transcript, multicam 6 shows transcript, but mutlicam 5 doesn't.  When paying the text window just sort of hovers where the transcript should be.

Matching back to source panel doesn't show transcript.  Matching back to multicam and loading it into the source panel DOES show the transcript.  It's as if Premiere has created two versions of the multi-cam, one in the sequence without a transcript and one in the bin with a transcript –– but they are the same clip!  i.e. there is no problem matching back to find it in the bin/project.

The only solution is to re-cut the multicam into the sequence.  But then, later, perhaps the next time I restart premiere (not sure) that transcript disappears.

[jamieclarke]

Hi @Ovidius9000 - After you did the Reassociate Clips step did you also do the next step of consolidating duplicates?  It sounds like the media references keep getting reverted to the clip without the transcription.

[Ovidius9000]

Sorry, I'm confused what you mean by the clip "without transcription".    How can it be both "the clip without transcription" and the clip in the bin with transcription?   

Also, the multicam clip is in the same project as the underlying audio clips.   It is only when it is in a sequence that it loses transcription.

I'm a little flummoxed by "consolidate duplicates", the mutlicam is in the same project as the master clips.     Another issue is the video clips and the audio clips are both transcribed.  Maybe that's causing issues with the mutlicam?   But there's no way to delete transcripts.

Honestly, Premiere transcription is a real chore with any sizeable project.  I have hundreds of transcribed sequences, so I kind of don't have time anymore to figure this out.   There should be a "fix transcript" tool or something.   It should also notice if a clip's transcript is not available.  Please note that it doesn't say "clip not transcribed" in my sequence, it just omits it from the transcript –– so there's no way for me to know the transcript is missing text.  That is catastrophic for documentary work.  sorry!

[jamieclarke]

Hi @Ovidius9000 -  In most cases, users working in a Premiere Production separate their dailies from their sequences. This approach keeps projects lighter, enables faster loading times, and prevents the creation of duplicate media when reusing assets. However, it doesn’t sound like your setup follows this structure. Could you provide more details about how your Production is organized? This will help me better understand your workflow.

[Ovidius9000]

Jamie, my dailies ARE separated.  That is the sequence we are discussing.  A dailies sequence of multicams.  The multicams and camera original are in one project, and the dailies sequences and other breakdowns (so only sequences) are in a separate project.   I was told that generally keeping sequences in separate projects from underlying clips was the best way to work. 

However, I will note that I did not set up this project.  But I have created some of the mutlicams in question.

Are you sayin either of these things?

1) The transcipts will only work if the multicams are in the same project as the sequences?
OR
2) Transcripts will work better if multicams are in a separat project from camer original files?

[Ovidius9000]

To clarify something.  One thing I tried was dragging the multicam clip (that shows a transcript when I load it into source-montior) into an empty sequence.   It doesn't show a transcript once in the sequence.   

My question to you is, how is that possible?  How can I fix it?

[jamieclarke]

Hi @Ovidius9000 - I don't think I am following how your project is setup.  In the previous post you say "the mutlicam is in the same project as the master clips." but in the next post you say "The multicams and camera original are in one project, and the dailies sequences and other breakdowns (so only sequences) are in a separate project"

To answer your two questions transcription will work across all projects even in Productions.

I believe the issue is that your multicam clip has a media reference causing the transcription to revert. It seems that, before creating the multicam clip, one of the source clips wasn’t transcribed. After you started editing with the multicam clip, that source clip was transcribed, which likely updated the reference in your multicam clip and caused the transcription to change.

Can you email me the project at jamiec@adobe.com

[Ovidius9000]

Project A - Master clips, master audio, multicams

Project B - Dailies and Selects sequences

Project C - Edited sequences.

[Ovidius9000]

Regardless of how I have it organized, I still don't understand what you mean whe you write "I believe the issue is that your multicam clip has a media reference causing the transcription to revert"?  Rever to what?

And you go on to say " After you started editing with the multicam clip…".  To my way of thinking I haven't started editing with the multicam.   I can create a new sequence with just the one multicam in it.  The multicam will show a transcript, but the sequence won't.

I am not saying you are wrong about the consolidating duplicates, reassociating files, yaddd yadda yaddd.  But why can't I just select a sequence and have a function like "reconnect all transcripts".  The multicams clearly have transcripts attached (I see them when I load into the source monitor).  You keep saying something about it not "referencing" the right multicam, but I don't understand what you mean. I find the multicam by matching back from the sequence.  How can the sequence know where the mulitcam lives yet not be able to find the transcript attached to that multicam?

The larger issue here that makes Premiere transcrips very frustrating to work worth is there is no permanence.   I can imagine eventualy I will have to "re-transcribe" the sources and then lose all the corrections I made.

[jamieclarke]

Hi @Ovidius9000 - A great explanation is on page 70 of the Longform and Episodic Workflow Guide

You say "The multicam will show a transcript, but the sequence won't."

What happens when you select your timeline, click the three dots in the Text panel, and choose Generate Text-Based Editing Transcript?

[Ovidius9000]

Jamie, I'm still confused by what you are saying.  Normally if I assemble transcribed clips into a sequence, the sequence will now have a transcript.  That is almost the main point of "text based editing".   If I assemble a sequence of NON-transcribed sequences, it will ask to me to transcribe the underlying clips.

I can "generate static transcript", which I don't want to do.  There is no "generate text-based editing transcript".   I feel like you're using a different version of Premiere than I am.  I'm on v24.6.1

For the last time, the clips are transribed, the clips are transcribed, the clisp are transcribed.

I can create a NEW SEQUENCE and put the clips in the sequence and there is NO TRANSCRIPT.

Honestly, Premiere is just too much of a mess.   Who has time for this crap?

[Ovidius9000]

I give up, Jamie.  I delted my project and rage quit my job.

Thanks Premiere!

[jamieclarke]

Hi @Ovidius9000 - I see. Above you said you were on 24.5.0, depending on which version you started with there was a bug with Productions and multicam clips in previous versions that may have carried over into your project.  We always suggest using the latest version of Premiere Pro which is currently 25.0 and if not currently the Long Term Support version is 24.6.3

Yes you can "generate static transcript" and then select the dots again to "Generate Text-Based Editing Transcript", just to refresh the sequence.

[Ovidius9000]

So you're saying I have to generate all transcripts two or three times?  Each time I put it in a sequence?

When I create a sequence with untranscribed clips it asks me to transcribe them.  Now you want me to transcribe again? and again twice?   So I have transcribed three times and haven't even begun to edit? 

Aren't I going to lose all the info I corrected in the underlying transcripts?    It all seems overly complicated.  Why not just have an "update transcript" button?

You seem to be saying that text-based editing doesn't work.  That  I cannot rely on Adobe keeping transcripts visible in a sequence.  Not only will it lose transcriptions, it aslo won't warn me when the transcript is omitting text?  It seems bonkers.

Maybe best to give up on it entirely and just use "static transcripts".  But then I have to fix all the typos and speaker names again.   The whole point of transcribing the underlying audio first is so that the use doesn't have to retranscribe things over and over again.

[Ovidius9000]

Sorry if I sound frustrated, but I am.  Transcripts shouldn't be fluid and change at the whims of the application.  When something is transcribed, I expect it to stay transcribed.   Why it matters wheter it is an audio clip, a multicam, or in a sequence doesn't make any sense to me at all.   

[jamieclarke]

Hi @Ovidius9000 -  Many users are having great success with the text-based editing features and are really enjoying the experience!

I'm sorry you are having a rough time using them.  I'm just trying to offer troubleshooting suggestions to try and figure out what the problem is that you are experiencing.  

Next steps might be to do a screen recording and upload it so that we can see your issue.

Did you read the workflow guide to understand how productions work?

[Ovidius9000]

So when you say "have your read the productions workflow" is that is
assumes there is something I'm doing wrong.

For me the mere fact that I can see a transcript and then it disappears
without notification when adding the clip to a sequence is an error, a bug,
a fail. I just don't understand why we are circling around Productions?
It literally says "transcribe your source clips" and then when I do it
still doesn't work.

Are you suggesting Productions and Transcripts don't work together? If
not, how is it possible to cut a source-clip into a sequence and NOT have
the transcript follow along with it?

If you could give me an example as to why the transcript would not show up
when being added to a sequence, I might understand what you're trying to
get at. I fail to understand how it would ever make sense for a
transcript not to follow along when being added to a sequence. That seems
to be the workflow Adobe promoted to me in their documentation and by the
application itself asking me to "transcribe source clips". So when you
suggest it may be Production's fault, or mismanagement, I'm kind of
flabbergasted. Why would it be designed to be so fragile? What use is
transcribing if no one can rely on it?

I will see if I can create a screen recording at some point, but I have
that sinking feeling I get when contacting Adobe that it will just go on
and on ad infinitum. And I am busy taking notes by hand because the
transcripts keep disappearing.