Unsupported GPU for CS5

[cts51911]

With all the interest of the "unsupported" GPUs, I thought it was time to start a specific thread.

Please post your questions and experiences.

Hacking is not advised and the unsupported cards are not ready for production use.

You've been warned! 

[chupacabracobra]

Wil Renczes wrote:

I wouldn't exactly call it a buzzkill.  It's the nature of H264 versus codecs with faster decode times.  Let's put it this way:  prior to CS5, AVCHD couldn't playback at all, and people looking for realtime had no choice but to transcode.  (And, conversely, if you look at FCP, well, you have no choice - you're forced to transcode to ProRes.)

Now, CS5 gets you realtime editing multiple streams for AVCHD, and if you really need to stack 20 layers of complex material, well, yeah, you can still transcode if you're looking for realtime, but then I'm curious what has you doing that kind of crazy stacking in Premiere, and wouldn't it make more sense at that point to be doing compositing in AE..?  With that many layers, you probably need to do more complex masking anyway...<shrug>

(Go AE rotobrush! )

I'm just curious about a few things.

Considering that it has been said that CS5 does not use the GPU to decode video formats and that a 1920x1080p h.264 file from the 5D2 pushes the CPU pretty hard even just in the preview window (i.e. straight file, no edits) I assume it is safe to say that CS5 is not utilizing the h.264 accelerators on video cards and that the speedup compared to CS4 (which actually can do VERY simple/basic real-time 5D2 file editing if you re-wrap from .mov to .mp4 since QT is the thing that really makes it crawwwwwllllllll although does bog down even re-wrapped to .mp4 if you do anything more than just plop down a few files one after the other with no effects, no transitions, no layers, no correction) which can be very noticeable, is all due to new, carefully optimized CPU parallel processing code? (although i am a little surprised it could manage more than one 5D2 track at once using just the CPU alone so maybe it does already use HW accel??)

Assuming that the h.264 hardware on graphics cards is not being used yet, is there any chance it will get used in a later CS5 patch or in CS6? I know for straight playback it makes an astonishing difference in video playback programs that support h.264 accel. I'm not sure how well h.264 accel meshes when you are also using the GPU to do other stuff too though or exactly how the cards handle the h.264 decode and if they do it in a way that would easily usable in an editor, never looked into that sort of thing at all. Is there something that would out and out prevent it from being used? Would it require a tricky re-write of the code to be able to use it along with CUDA without getting too bogged down by contect switches or something or the need to use too much buffer to avoid problems?

Anyway I don't know if you can or want to answer any of that.

Whatever the case, I'm certainly very glad that CS5, even as is, does handle 7D/5D2 files pretty well on a non-monster (if still not bad) machine even once you start do more serious video editing. FOr my needs, even though it strains my CPU like mad, it still seems able to just manage to pull off almost everything I want in real-time, at least after some limited playing around with it.

[Craisans]

Wil,

I'm really impressed with CS5 on an i7 860 even on an 8800GT(upgrade coming asap!). 

I haven't needed 20 layers, I'm just trying to figure out if I can make enough head room if it comes up.  I'm a student and don't have clients like a lot of folks on the forum, so my interest is more in creating weird shorts with my friends.  That could mean 15 kids and dogs in front of a green screen that i might each give their own layer to make each person a different color or to have them flying around independently from one another. Maybe I could get better with AE and do this, but the possibility of doing this in real time in premiere means I could try an insane amount of combinations without waiting for AE to render in between changes.

Also, I starting playing with AE rotobrush last night and it's amazing. 

[cts51911]

cts51911 wrote:

This works on the GTX 470 I have, i7 930, 12gb

I converted to 5d2 1080p/24 files to Dvcprohd 1080i/60

Imported the 6 layers of clips into a Dvcprohd 1080i/60

All 6 layers - 45% opacity, and a mixture of blur, fast color correction, noise and b/w on the lines - Yellow line still

I'm seeing about 60% utilization on both CPU/GPU

Playback is smooth.

Note that line goes red if I add too much GPU effects even if the playback is still smooth.

Chuck:  Is this the project type you used?   Dvcprohd 1080i/60?

Get this...Even if you use the SOFTWARE ONLY option, the P2 files play back pretty smooth.  Even with 4 lines of video it is acceptable in my testing.  Not as smooth with MPE GPU support though.

So, if you do not have a GPU card that works with MPE, coverting to P2 files (like my project above) is the way to go due to the low CPU usage.

[cts51911]

Chuck,

Do you have any DSLR footage or a format other than P2 around?

If so, can you drop them into the same project as repacements for the P2.

Again, thanks for your work on this.

Thanks, Chris

[Chuck_A__McIntyre]

It may be that the P2 format is an easy one to handle.  We don't have any other hi-def format available to test.  We only use our two Panasonic HVX200P's for our 1080i projects.

On second thought, I could always export another format from Premiere and give it a try.

[cts51911]

Chuck A. McIntyre wrote:

It may be that the P2 format is an easy one to handle.  We don't have any other hi-def format available to test.  We only use our two Panasonic HVX200P's for our 1080i projects.

I'm guessing you are right.

The GTX 285 cards have to be the ordinary too.

Thanks again!

[tclark513]

Wow Chuck...your video is awesome.  I picked up the same card from Newegg.  I hope I get that same performance with HDV.

Tip...make sure you turn up the cooling on that card.  These are set to 30 percent in the factory and that is not high enough.

BTW...The new driver on the nVidia websites states that it has updates in it for CS5.

[Chuck_A__McIntyre]

4 layers of uncompressed 1920 x 1080 avi doesn't playback as smooth but there is no red render line and rendering is so fast, it's really not an issue.  I recommend this card.  This technology is going to be a tremendous timesaver.  The Final Cut Pro guys at work look like their guy got brutalized and knocked out in the first round.

[cts51911]

I agree.  Going with a GTX 285 is probably a good idea for those doing real production depending on their workflow and especially for those who use P2.

At this point, would you even think about buying a Quadro card?   A GTX 285 appears to be enough for your workflow.

Regarding "4 layers of uncompressed 1920 x 1080 avi doesn't playback as smooth", that is consistent with what I have seen on my pc too.

[jpw21683]

Hi Chris,

Thanks for all your info!  I have a near-identical system as yours (Core i7 920, 12GB of DDR3 RAM, etc), so I'll be looking into the BFG 285GTX.

I have a Canon XH-A1 (1440i HDV MPEG-2) and recently purchased a Panasonic HMC-150 (full 1080p AVCHD).  I'll report my finds with both of these formats, plus converting the AVCHD clips to P2 prior to editing.

[chupacabracobra]

Chuck A. McIntyre wrote:

I wonder if I got a freak card from BFG, or I'm not understanding the 285 GTX layer limitations.  I have stacked 20 layers of Panasonic 1080i P2 media on the timeline, all with varying opacities around 50%, + and -.  I have picture in pictures spinning, a multitude of blending modes, gaussian blur and color corrected clips.  There is a yellow render line above all 20 layers.  Playback at full resolution is smooth as can be without any stuttering. What's up with that? I thought only the high-end Quadro's were capable of that.

Also MP2 Export is around 9 times quicker than on our other machine.

Maybe they forget to set the stream limit in the partciular version of driver you are using?? Maybe since 285 was called officially supported they unlocked it for the 285???

Maybe you have a 285 for sale on ebay haha .

[chupacabracobra]

shooternz wrote:

if you don't use tons of layers and keep it to three with effects, then I would bet a Fermi would do even better than the Quadros out there

If that suits you, that is fine... but I dont need to limit my self in this way which is brilliant...because my workflow uses tons of layers and multiple effects.

I think Chuck Mcs report above also indicates the reason why the supported cards are beneficial.

At the end of the day... editors will buy what they can afford or justify  and then get on with EDITING movies.

(The only reason I persist in this thread is that I think valuable information is coming out for system builders and users of CS5)

eg..What works and  how well it works ...

I will add to the infobase .... I do not have a RAID system.

Yeah it all depends upon how you use.

I don't do too much really fancy stuff and usually don't even go past two layers and have not yet gone past three.

If you do then the quadro may be quite helpful (although I am seeing some reports where the non-quadros seem to be doing a bit better than expected with >3 tracks, but who knows and certainy nothing you can count on)

[Chuck_A__McIntyre]

Just received and installed the supported BFG 285 GTX from Newegg.com in one of our systems.  I have 7 layers of P2 1080i with different effects on the different clips:

Gaussian blur, color correction, spinning picture in pictures, different blending modes all playing back at full resolution perfectly smooth with a yellow render line.  I thought the 285's were only supposed to support 3 layers without the red render line.  Amazing.

[cts51911]

Chuck A. McIntyre wrote:

Just received and installed the supported BFG 285 GTX from Newegg.com in one of our systems.  I have 7 layers of P2 1080i with different effects on the different clips:

Gaussian blur, color correction, spinning picture in pictures, different blending modes all playing back at full resolution perfectly smooth with a yellow render line.  I thought the 285's were only supposed to support 3 layers without the red render line.  Amazing.

7 layers + effects...Still yellow line?

You have to post a video   (partially kidding)

[mylifevisual]

Thanks.  That's interesting.  I have the BFG as well.  I think the single full HD and multiple layers of AVCHD are fine during playback.  Really the only issue that I find are for additive dissolves and non-additive dissolves, which I actually like to use on occasion for graphic fades.  Collor correction is fine.  I haven't stacked too many video layers, but I'll do that tonight and let you know what I get.

[Craisans]

Could also let us know if you have the factory overclocked edition as well?

Maybe that's the only version, but pretty much, if you are experiencing the same results as Chuck, i.e. no 3 layer cap, then I'm sold on the BFG GTX 285 card and won't buy a GTX 260 to hack.

Also, I want to say to everyone, I've been reading the forum everyday for a month and all of your information has been really helpful, so thank you all.

[Chuck_A__McIntyre]

Craisans Wrote:

"Could also let us know if you have the factory overclocked edition as well?"

It is Overclocked from the factory from 648 to 666.

Wil Wrote:

"Do you have any layers in that stack that have nothing on them (or specifically, nothing transparent/moved so that it essentially optimizes out layers beneath it because you have a blocking layer that's completely opaque)?"

Every layer except the bottom one has their opacity randomly set between 30% and 60%.  The possible exception is the scaled picture in picture footage.

cts51911 Wrote:

"Chuck:  Is this the project type you used?   Dvcprohd 1080i/60?"

Yes

Wil Wrote:

"but then I'm curious what has you doing that kind of crazy stacking in Premiere, and wouldn't it make more sense at that point to be doing compositing in AE..?  With that many layers, you probably need to do more complex masking anyway...<shrug>"

Just seeing what it could handle.  Our actual projects rarely go beyond 12 layers of video, and that's only on a corporate production where we use PowerPoint-like text builds with Premiere titles.  Our actual video footage layers rarely go beyond 4.

[Guest]

So obviously, I am doing something wrong because my 480 Fermi won't accelerate anything. I have 2 Sanyo HD 2000s, one Canon XHA1 and one Canon 7d. THe MErcury Engine turns on but doesn't do anything, actually.

When I go to NVIDIA control panel to add the Premiere Pro CS5 exe it shows Premiere CS4 as found in my system ( I am keeping CS4 because of older After FX plugins I've got which will not work in CS5) and Premiere Pro CS5 won't "stick" to the control panel. I need to let you know that my version is a trial (still waiting for serials to arrive).

1 Mac 9600 GTX 2 4 Cores Xeon (haven't done the hack on this Mac yet)

2 Quad core PCs q6600 with Nvidia 260 GTX

1 Quad Core PC Q6600 with Fermi 480

I will uninstall CS4 if anybody can tell me if that is the reason why it doesn't work (or do it myself and let you all know once I get fed up with it).

Definition of Hack from the online dictionary:

A quick and inelegant, though functional solution to a programming problem.

[cts51911]

You don't need to uninstall CS4.

I would go over the hack install instructions again.

If you can post your gpusniffer.exe output that would helpful too.

[chupacabracobra]

Valter Vilar wrote:

So obviously, I am doing something wrong because my 480 Fermi won't accelerate anything. I have 2 Sanyo HD 2000s, one Canon XHA1 and one Canon 7d. THe MErcury Engine turns on but doesn't do anything, actually.

When I go to NVIDIA control panel to add the Premiere Pro CS5 exe it shows Premiere CS4 as found in my system ( I am keeping CS4 because of older After FX plugins I've got which will not work in CS5) and Premiere Pro CS5 won't "stick" to the control panel. I need to let you know that my version is a trial (still waiting for serials to arrive).

1 Mac 9600 GTX 2 4 Cores Xeon (haven't done the hack on this Mac yet)

2 Quad core PCs q6600 with Nvidia 260 GTX

1 Quad Core PC Q6600 with Fermi 480

I will uninstall CS4 if anybody can tell me if that is the reason why it doesn't work (or do it myself and let you all know once I get fed up with it).

Definition of Hack from the online dictionary:

A quick and inelegant, though functional solution to a programming problem.

You need to do some fancy things first. Add effects marked as GPU accelerated (it is interesting that the beta called it Mercury CUDA, I think, and now it simply calls it Mercury Hardware, and the one tester using AMD, maybe they are trying an OpenCL port.... anyway just some crazy speculation, which might every well have no basis in fact, whatsoever), add some multiple track videos with different levels of opacity.

If you all you do is load a single 7D clip, the HW accel appears to do nothing at all.

[Guest]

Thanks everyone, I've just got my serials (finally, apparently our systems admin never registered the previous versions of C

S2, CS3 and CS4 and Adobe could not locate something in thewir system). I am so excited right now! Will be running home to test it in my 480 GTX).

Fingers crossed!

[cts51911]

Valter,

No need to cross your fingers.  The hack works on the GTX 480.  Others  have done it...So can you.  Just follow the instructions exactly.

Do me a favor and post your gpusniffer.exe info on the GTX 480  (just the compute cabability rating 1-2)

Chris

[Guest]

In response to your post:

Valter,

No need to cross your fingers.  The hack works on the GTX 480.  Others  have done it...So can you.  Just follow the instructions exactly.

Do me a favor and post your gpusniffer.exe info on the GTX 480  (just the compute cabability rating 1-2)

Chris

Yes I will, I am going home soon. I have a 4 camera multicamera sequence that I really want to revisit. It was irky jerky on my Q6600 on CS4 previously and editing the multicamera sequence was a pain (slideshow) but doable.

[Guest]

Here is my 480 GTX gpusniffer info:

C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Premiere Pro CS5>gpusniffer
Device: 0000000000283EE8 has video RAM(MB): 1536
Vendor string:    NVIDIA Corporation
Renderer string:  GeForce GTX 480/PCI/SSE2
Version string:   3.0.0

OpenGL version as determined by Extensionator...
OpenGL Version 3.0
Supports shaders!
Supports BGRA -> BGRA Shader
Supports VUYA Shader -> BGRA
Supports UYVY/YUYV ->BGRA Shader
Supports YUV 4:2:0 -> BGRA Shader
Testing for CUDA support...
   Found 1 devices supporting CUDA.
   CUDA Device # 0 properties -
   CUDA device details:
      Name: GeForce GTX 480      Compute capability: 2.0
      Total Video Memory: 1503MB
   CUDA driver version: 3000
CUDA Device # 0 supported.
Completed shader test!
Internal return value: 7

My Q6600 might be too old to handle things properly. I get 70 percent CPU utilization and can only have one video track with effects without jerkiness added. Maybe the I7 is the key here (of course the GPU plays the biggest part in the equation). I haven't tried recreating a multicamera setup but loading up the one from CS4 is jerky, but not as much as it used to be.

New driver point release, just came out today from NVIDIA. Hopefully it will be optimized for CS5!

[cts51911]

Convert your files to P2 (see my previous posts on this thread).

You should get a lot more CPU headroom doing that.