Which control surface do you use, would like to use or have used for audio?

[slovill]

I am shopping control surfaces for mixing audio in Premiere Pro CC. I am buying used so I would sure like to get it right the first time. I am looking for feedback from those who have used a control surface as well as those who have just looked around. I have searched high and low for information from Premiere Pro users but have found very little. Even the Audition folks have not shared much information about experiences with audio control surfaces.

Here are some consoles I've looked at but cannot determine compatibility (due to lack of information):

• Mackie Control Universal MCU Pro 8
• Digidesign Command 8
• Digidesign Digi 002 Pro Tools Console
• M-Audio ProjectMix I/O Control Surface
• Icon QCon Pro USB Midi Controller Station
• Behringer B-Control Fader BCF2000
• Radikal Technologies SAC 2.2 DAW controller
• Avid Artist Mix Control 8 Fader Euphonix DAW Mixing Control Surface
• Tascam FW-1884 Firewire Control Surface
• Tascam FW-1082 Firewire Control Surface
• CM Labs Motormix
• CM Labs Motormix 2
• CM Labs MotorMate
• Novation ZeRO SL MkII MIDI DAW Control Surface
• Nektar Panorama P1 USB Midi DAW Control Surface
• Alesis Master Control

If you have experience with any of these consoles, or have any to add to the list, specifically with Premiere Pro, please leave a note here. I believe there will be others who will check this discussion looking for the same answers as I. Documentation of these control surfaces is very thin when it coms to discovering if they are MCU or EUCON protocol (or other) - and even if I was able to discern a flavor I still do not know which features will work in Premiere, such as transport controls, faders, plug-in modifiers, et al.

So I guess my goal here is to come up with a list of work/don't work features for each of these control surfaces and more so we can make informed bang for the buck decisions. My budget for a used control surface is $300-400, but I'd be willing to go to $500-600 or more if the features/integration were significantly better.

Thanks!

[slovill]

Update: I have contacted Mackie, Avid (Digidesign), Tascam, Behringer and CM Labs asking them for information. I will post their replies as they come in (but I'm not holding my breath).

[ALLENT]

Sorry I can't really address you control surface list in too much depth... as I have one studio on a  larger mixing console, and one smaller 5.1 studio "all in the box" (w/ NO console).  But to be quite honest I am grabbing the mouse more & more everyday (about 80% of what I do is with the mouse)  Just my style I guess.  But I wanted to bring to light an audio point in general regarding your question.  Have you thought about moving your audio out of PP, and into a dedicated audio program like PROTOOLS (the industry standard) or even AUDITION??  I have had a lot of problems with audio in PP, and I am not sure it is really robust enough on the audio side of things to be super stable once you start really pushing it (especially in a full feature situation), i.e. adding sound effects, EQ's, compression.. and/or surround mixing.  I know ADOBE is really upgrading the audio side of things, but even they are building there own "audio only" program (Audition) to take care of the sound.  That speaks volumes to me!! Just something to think about, especially if you get deep into a project, and the stability starts to break down because of scaling up the audio in PP, and then you have big problems... you may lose your film EDIT... that could end in disaster!!  I saw it happen in Final cut Pro a few years ago... it was a bad situation!!

[slovill]

ALLENT: Thank you for raising some valid concerns. Losing the edit is a disaster, and you know it happens when the "gotta have it now" factor is running very high and the client is tapping his wrist watch. "This has to be uploaded to Dubai in 40 minutes..." Among others, don't ask. Which is exactly why I am hoping to have your concerns and more addressed in this thread.

I have had the luxury of passing my edits off to some very talented mixers in Detroit for the past couple (okay, maybe three) decades. But before I was an editor I was one of those audio post mixers. Of course, that was in the days of oxide, razor blades and a neck full of patch cords. It was a very tactile experience which added to the rhythm of the workflow, and I loved it. Now I am developing a small production company/studio and I will be handling the mixes once again. I hope my 'man behind the curtain' form has not been lost. I'm not disrespecting the mouse. One of my favorite local mixers sits at a beautiful, full blown Icon console controlling Pro Tools, and he only touches three things on it - the mouse, the keyboard and the volume knob... and his mixes are brilliant. It's just that, for me, my ears seem to be connected to my fingers.

If that means I need to jump into Audition or Pro Tools for the more complicated mixes, that will be fine. But then I'd like to find a control surface that works in those and Premiere Pro for the simpler stuff. So fingers crossed there have been some experiences out there that will be shared in this thread.

[Richard M Knight]

I have a Behringer B-Control Fader BCF2000 which was cheap from ebay but does not have touch sensitive faders. Because of this it is not much use for mixing.

I too come from a mixing background, analogue 24 tracks, Neve desks- then Tascam da88 and Akai DD8s, AMS audio files. I use a mouse for most things but I would prefer mechanical faders for mixing.

If I could afford (and justify) a new control surface I would go for the Avid/Euphonix.

[slovill]

Here is the list with the responses I have received from the manufacturers, (3) so far.

• Mackie Control Universal MCU Pro 8

The MCU Pro uses three different types of MIDI operating protocols (Mackie Control, HUI, and Logic Control). We have not tested the MCU Pro here in Tech Support with Premiere Pro. You will want to contact Adobe directly to see if they support the Mackie Control, HUI or Logic Control protocols with the Premiere Pro software. It is up to the manufacture of the software on how well these MIDI operating protocols are implemented into the software.  With contacting Adobe directly you will be able to see what control surfaces are supported with their software.

• Digidesign Command 8

• Digidesign Digi 002 Pro Tools Console

• M-Audio ProjectMix I/O Control Surface

The Project Mix I/O is a discontinued product.  However, it should work properly with basically any DAW program.  I can't speak to specifically Premiere Pro, but we have a few customers who use that combination and those customers report it works just fine.

• Icon QCon Pro USB Midi Controller Station

• Behringer B-Control Fader BCF2000

Thank you for your email! Yes, you are able to use the BCF2000 to control Adobe Pro CC. YOu will need to program the controller into Mackie Emulation mode. Mackie Emulation will allow full functionality within your software. Attached you will find a PDF showing each emulation mode. Here are a few informative links explaining setup and application:

http://forums.adobe.com/thread/1286249

http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/control-surface-support.html

The former will provide a better understanding of connectivity.

• Radikal Technologies SAC 2.2 DAW controller

• Avid Artist Mix Control 8 Fader Euphonix DAW Mixing Control Surface

• Tascam FW-1884 Firewire Control Surface

• Tascam FW-1082 Firewire Control Surface

• CM Labs Motormix

• CM Labs Motormix 2

• CM Labs MotorMate

• Novation ZeRO SL MkII MIDI DAW Control Surface

• Nektar Panorama P1 USB Midi DAW Control Surface

• Alesis Master Control

[slovill]

Just got off the phone with Avid...

The Avid Artist Mix Control 8 is Euconn enabled and should be fully compatible with Adobe products. They could not tell me how compatible as far as faders, transports, assignable keys, etc.. So I am still hoping there's a user out there who can give some report. The Avid/Digidesign older units' protocols are proprietary to Pro Tools, including the Digidesign Command 8 and Digi 002 & 003 models and so are not compatible with Adobe.

[danm56028011]

To clarify: Are  you saying that the Tascam 1082 will work with PP? thanks

[Philinator]

Thanks for this post.  I've had the same experience trying to find some info from someone who has actually used a control surface.  We were looking at the Icon qCon, but it looks like Behringer has a new line they've released.  Not sure if they're shipping yet, but it looks like they're based on the new line of digital consoles they've had out for the last year or so.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/X-TOUCH.aspx

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/X-TOUCH-COMPACT.aspx

I'm very interested in these.

[Kevin-Monahan]

Hi slovill,

Check out this link, I hope it helps you: http://helpx.adobe.com/premiere-pro/using/control-surface-support.html

Thanks,
Kevin

[ChuckSwan]

I have the Avid Artist (formerly Euphonix) MC Transport and MC Control surfaces.  I would call the integration in Audition to be weak at best.  Jog/Shuttle (next to fader control) is one of my high priority functions and it is basically useless.  Sends the playhead all over the place.  Scrubbing is nonexistent.  Also, note that you cannot use the full range of the faders on the MC Control because Audition/Premiere only allow +6db max gain whereas the surface is laid out for +12.  Took me a but to notice that the top of the hardware fader range was clipped.  Thought I was having a senior moment.  😉

In Premiere, the Jog/Shuttle is somewhat better.  But, or course in any Avid app it is perfect! 

The Eucon software is VERY configurable, and I can't help feel the folks at Adobe really just need to provide us with a suitable config template for their apps.  Now after fighting my way through dialog replacement on my current project, ProTools is looking pretty interesting.  Perhaps Adobe only tested it with the MC Mix module.  Really should find some time to try to adjust the templates.

-Chuck

[R Neil Haugen]

I'm not running any kind of surface ... just a Wacom tablet for the left hand (lefty here), Microsoft "Natural Ergonamic" keyboard with it's 10 or 15 extra configurable keys, and a Kensington Expert Mouse trackball with 2" ball, surround ring, & four large paddle/buttons. I'm thinking about how I've got them set and it could easily be improved.

I've not been that encouraged to look at dedicated "surfaces" yet as the Adobe implementation for just PrPro & Sg seem perhaps not completely ... there, from the comments such as the above. It would be nice to see Adobe really go after getting these interfaces ... interfaceable? ... wouldn't it?

Neil

[MalcolmM1]

PreSonus Faderport ($135) does NOT work with Premiere or Audition.

The icon Qcon lite ($200) does NOT work with Premiere but it DOES work with Audition, when programmed in "Logic/Mackie" mode.

What is the deal with Premiere?  It has the same drop down menus in Audition, but does not work? very strange.

I like using an audio control surface with my NLE, makes balancing tracks easier during the edit.  Round tripping to Audition is fine for a final mix down, but what about all the test renders that need sound too?

Malcolm

[MalcolmM1]

My Bella DV keyboard jog/shuttle does not work with Premiere Pro CC either!  Now I'm just using a regular keyboard with keycap stickers and a trackball.  Very annoying about the Bella keyboard, it was nice to have with Vegas Pro.

M

[R Neil Haugen]

File a bug report ... then turn right around and file a feature request! Seriously on both those. This is something that just needs attention for so many people trying to get their output up to the higher speed that is always necessary for better profitability. Or even just getting a bit of family time now & then ...

Adobe Bug Report /Feature Request form ...

https://www.adobe.com/cfusion/mmform/index.cfm?name=wishform

Neil

[ToltekM]

Stumbled across this post and i'll chime in incase you haven't made a decision yet.  I'm using the Avid Artist Mix w/ CC 2015 and it works extremely well.   Very easy to adjust the clip and track volume w/ the faders.  The track names show up in the displays and record/automation works great as do the panning knobs, solo and mute buttons.   Very pleased w/ my purchase.   

[R Neil Haugen]

Good to know. Thanks ...

Neil

[brianb48677142]

Any new Control Surfaces for PP in 2016? do the X-touch series work?

[MonoxideWorks]

Behringer BCF 2000 user here. Used with Audition CC 2015.1 release Build 8.1.0.162

In our experience the closest mode to make it work with Audition is the "Mackie Control Mapping for Steinberg" [MC C] mode. The faders work fine, track select, mute and solo. Transport works fine too.

Although there is no way to engage "touch". There are however direct commands for "read", "write" and "latch" for automation. The only way to get to "touch" mode is to automate via "write"; upon finishing first pass, playhead will return to start position and the automation setting will automatically switch to "touch". Although "touch" mode does not function smoothly, upon touching the faders for an automation edit; the faders seem to fight the edit as if it's in "read" mode.

We have not tried it with Premiere Pro and we have not tried programming it yet.

Hope this helps.

[slovill · Accepted solution]

I appreciate everyone's information provided here.

I took delivery of the Behringer X-Touch a couple months ago. Plugged it in to USB port, set PP and Audition preferences/control surface to Mackie, and voila! Everything began working with no problems. Only complaint? No back light for button labels... so I added a USB powered mini light to one of the two USB ports on the back of the control surface.. I customized a few of the buttons for PP and Audition and added my own P-Touch labels.

Some other observations...

• Read, write, touch and latch function as expected.
• Mute and solo function as expected.
• The flying faders are a little jumpy, but the mix is smooth.
• PP has been occasionally locking up while playing the timeline, but I can't say the control surface is causing it (I can't say it isn't, either).
• The LED header above each fader follows PP and Audition track labels and effect settings.
• TC display matches Adobe timeline TC.
• I have not used controls to tweak audio track effects settings, so no feedback yet for those functions.

I am happy with the X-Touch and think it's a good value for those in need of a control surface for simple mixing. I'll try to report on deeper functions as I use them. If anyone else has delved into deeper functionality, please report it here for everyone's benefit.

[MonoxideWorks]

Hey slovill,

How goes your X-Touch experience with Adobe Audition CC 2017 update?

Thanks

[BrianSiano2]

I recently purchased a Behringer X-Touch control surface. It took a bit to get it working, so here are the settings I used.

1: Add device "Mackie." As follows:

  Device Type: Mackie Control

  MIDI Input: X-touch

  MIDI Output: Microsoft GS Wavetable Synth

2. Settings: Mackie Control. Edit this as follows:

  Device Type: Mackie

  MIDI Input and Output: both X-Touch

I do NOT know why this worked, but it's what worked for me. I also reprogrammed some of the control buttons.

(By the way, the device can be of great help in editing multicam: you can assign "Cut to Camera #" commands to the function keys on the board. If we could do this to the buttons on the sliders, it'd be great.)

[Leok18]

Hello Brian.
I have been trying to find if the Behringer X-Touch or Behringer X-Touch Compact works with adobe audition... and premiere like you mentioned... but havent been able to find anything until I read your comment

I was curious how well is it working? you could use all the functionality? you like the product? any comments? would you recommend it?

Thank you very much!

Leon

[R Neil Haugen]

Have you posted on the Audition forum? That would be the best place to ask about control/surface things for that app ...

Audition CS5.5, CS6 & CC

I know that several of the "main" helpers over there all use various control and x-box sort of devices with Audition and other sound apps.

Neil

[BrianSiano2]

Whups. Somewhere in teh last few updates to Premiere pro, the Behringer control surface doesn't seem to work right. You can slide the sliders, but the changes are no longer recorded on the timeline. Instead, the overall volume of the track is adjusted. Unless someone can tell me how to configure it properly, it's useless for actual mixing.