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Slow...

Engaged ,
Aug 02, 2009 Aug 02, 2009

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Slow as molasses today... Posting is even slower than a snail.

Was looking for an earlier thread but was sooo slow to find that i just started a new one... sorry about that.

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Advocate ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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I want information that allows us to identify the problem.

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Engaged ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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jochemd wrote:

I want information that allows us to identify the problem.

Jochem...

What more information do you want? The forums are slow. Everyone has said so...

1/ It takes anywhere from 20 seconds to minutes to sign in

2/ Individual links take 5 seconds (that's fast) and longer, much longer to open

3/ Replying to posts see 1 & 2 above

4/ Etc., etc.

You've been told they're slow. Comparisons have been given... Do you expect people to site with a stop watch and time each and every little click?

Jeez...

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Advocate ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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JayJhabrix wrote:

What more information do you want?

The information that is specified in the FAQ.

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Mentor ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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I click the link and it takes way too long. It should be instantaneous just like the Web Crossing forums were.

now since we are using Jive software I would bet money that's the problem, and you seem to be the Jive expert now you figure it out. Do something constructive for a change.

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LEGEND ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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Buko. wrote:

now since we are using Jive software I would bet money that's the problem

The WebX forums weren't sitting on all this adobe ballast either.

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Contributor ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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Dang Jochem.  I have to install 2 plugins and take a total of 16 steps to give you the performance information?  Don't you think that's a LOT to ask the general users of a forum to do?

Yes, I think it needs to be fixed, but WOW, that's expecting a LOT from non-paid users in a web forum.  I have already provided my system specs to JC and his crew.

I will say, the reply window speed has improved with my new $600 computer!  BUT, I sure hope that's not a *requirement* for using this forum!

Oh and for the record, I do have my broswer cache set to 10mb ... I don't wish to have a lot of temp files.  For a forum to rely heavily on the broswer cache for speed is a dangerous and non-forward thinking design flaw.  You simply can't, and should not, expect that all users are going to have large broswer cache setups.

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Advocate ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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greenjumpyone wrote:

I will say, the reply window speed has improved with my new $600 computer!  BUT, I sure hope that's not a *requirement* for using this forum!

It pretty much is.  This runs fine at home running in Chrome (fastest browser by far) on my quad core, scsi/raptor, maxed ram monster box...

Meanwhile, every forum designed on planet Earth runs fine on workstations made in 1995...

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LEGEND ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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Ansury wrote:

Meanwhile, every forum designed on planet Earth runs fine on workstations made in 1995...

The Jive software speed doesn't seem to be any different for me than the FuseTalk software that was in place before Jive was implemented.

Perhaps I'm just lucky? I also don't seem to get logged out unexpectedly and frequently.

Cheers... Rick

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Mentor ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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The fusetalk forums were crap too. that's why most of the MM helpers/users used NNTP.

and that's why they are gone.

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Contributor ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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Captiv8r wrote:


The Jive software speed doesn't seem to be any different for me than the FuseTalk software that was in place before Jive was implemented.

Perhaps I'm just lucky? I also don't seem to get logged out unexpectedly and frequently.

Cheers... Rick

Rick, you *are* just lucky!  I get logged out regularly, from all three of my computers.  The forum *is* slower than any other forum I visit.  As I indicated, the experience is better with this new computer (dual core with 4GB of ram), but even with all that, it is still noticibly slower in page loading.  The reply box works better now than it did with the old system.  Bottom line, most computer users are not going to want to get new systems and allow for their broswer cache to be some relatively large number in order to view this forum, when that sort of thing is not needed for any other forum they visit.

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Advocate ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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greenjumpyone wrote:

Dang Jochem.  I have to install 2 plugins and take a total of 16 steps to give you the performance information?  Don't you think that's a LOT to ask the general users of a forum to do?

Yes, it is a lot. But the easy stuff is more or less done. What is left in terms of performance drags is basically the following caegories:

- download times

- javascript runtime

- render times

The decisive factor in download times is caching. A normal request for the thread list in a forum should cost about 1.5 seconds. Anything request other then the HTML should be cacheable. Javascript runtime is pretty much outside our control (all we can do is disable widgets), but should be about 2 seconds for a thread list in a forum. Then we have render time which may partially be fixed by us (somebody PM'd me last week to say I needed to add explicit sizes to the images in the announcement area) and part not by us for main items like a thread list.

But let's look a little bit closer at the caching. If you have your cache configured correctly and you visit http://forums.adobe.com/community/general/forum_comments for the first time the loading pattern should look something like the image below:

Firefox-request1.png

Notice how it is just 500KB. Then you click a thread to read it. Then you go back to the forum by clicking the "Forum comments" link in the breadcrumb trail. Now your load of the Forum Comments thread list should look something like:

Firefox-request3.png

Now there is still one thing wrong here. That one image should be cacheable and is not due to a cache header misconfiguration. So that got escalated to Adobe last week and I expect to hear back from them sometime this week. After that a revisit should only generate one HTTP request which should be answered in about 1.5 seconds by the server.

Oh and for the record, I do have my broswer cache set to 10mb ... I don't wish to have a lot of temp files.  For a forum to rely heavily on the broswer cache for speed is a dangerous and non-forward thinking design flaw.  You simply can't, and should not, expect that all users are going to have large broswer cache setups.

But it isn't about cache size, it is about revalidation and invalidation algorithms Please note I am writing revisit and not reload. If you press F5 and/or Ctrl-r in your browser you force your browser to re-validate its cached content and you are back at image number 1 with 100+ HTTP requests. To get effective caching for these forums 10 MB should be more then enough.

And the difference between reload and revisit should also make it clear why we need such detailed information: it makes a difference. A few seconds for me, probably a lot more for somebody who doesn't have fibre at home.

BTW: these images were generated by me and I run a Firefox configuration that is very much non standard (for instance, I block stats.adobe.com so it doesn't show up at all). I am guessing the basic numbers for a Firefox with a standard configuration should be 120+ HTTP requests for a first visit ever, 90+ for a reload using F5 and/or Ctrl-r and about 5 for a fully cached situation.

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Enthusiast ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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greenjumpyone wrote:

Dang Jochem.  I have to install 2 plugins and take a total of 16 steps to give you the performance information?  Don't you think that's a LOT to ask the general users of a forum to do?

Yes, it is a lot. But

lol!!! that's insane to ask end users to do that.

slow is slow. you figure it out.

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Mentor ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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from the SPAM thread.

jochemd wrote:

Jive is on a release train model where a back to back fix / enhancement takes 9 to 12 weeks and Adobe is currently on a twice a year update cycle. Even if everything is scheduled immediately it may take 9 months for fixes to become visible.

You just affirmed my claim that Adobe does not care.

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Engaged ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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dave milbut wrote:

slow is slow. you figure it out.

These forums are about as fast as CGTalk – www.cgtalk.com. At least they have an excuse... they're loaded with graphics... and usually not small...

What i fail to understand is why all these moderators are not just telling Adobe that this software and, consequently, these forums are screwed? Are they so thrilled at being appointed moderators that they're prepared to sacrifice their integrity? And you have moderators that jump between 'avatars'? I mean, it's surreal... one moment i'm talking to Terminator, the next moment to Preservator!!! And they're the same young fresher who doesn't even know what the WebX was... <sad shake of head>

No hope... unless someone has an in to the chief honcho...

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Advocate ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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JayJhabrix wrote:

What i fail to understand is why all these moderators are not just telling Adobe that this software and, consequently, these forums are screwed?

We have done so. Please explain step 2 of your plan.

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Mentor ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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Profit!

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Advocate ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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Everybody knows profit is step 4.

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Enthusiast ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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step 1: collect underpants

step 2: ?

step 3: profit!

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LEGEND ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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Even if every request was granted and every bug was fixed, these forums are never, never going to be at a usable speed for those used to the previous forum setup.


We are wasting our time here.


We are like mice scratching in the cellar while the suits sit in their San Jose tower, apparently unaware of our very existence.

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Mentor ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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http://forums.adobe.com/message/2200293#2200293

"Yes, improvements are being made. But Jive is on a release train model where a back to back fix / enhancement takes 9 to 12 weeks and Adobe is currently on a twice a year update cycle. Even if everything is scheduled immediately it may take 9 months for fixes to become visible."

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Advocate ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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That's what I've been saying for months JJ.  This software is a hopeless clusterjive of Adobe's community users.

I found a bug in the Forum login page by the way.  It should say:

Abandon hope, all ye who enter here.

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Advocate ,
Aug 24, 2009 Aug 24, 2009

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jochemd wrote:

If the performance is the same as always, there is no point in reporting it.

Yes, go back to sleep everyone, everything is under control!

(maybe if we all get used to not pointing out how bad things are anymore, Adobe won't have to fix anything, we'll get used to how bad this jiveware really is, and everything will be great!!)

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Enthusiast ,
Aug 28, 2009 Aug 28, 2009

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extra slow page reload and login as of 12:20 EDT, northeast PA.

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Mentor ,
Aug 28, 2009 Aug 28, 2009

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This evening its over 30 seconds a page. That really is unacceptable on a high speed connection.

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Mentor ,
Sep 01, 2009 Sep 01, 2009

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Today its even slower than the last time I complained. This is really sucky.

This reminds me of being connected to a 28.8 modem and waiting forever for a page to load.

but that was 17 years ago.

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