Adobe, Linux Support, and the Linux Foundation.

[gai.ra.III]

While generally I've only lurked the Adobe forums I've finally worked up guts to post this. I also know that about every 1-2 months this question is asked but I think it deserves a another go around.

My premises is this:

Adobe joined the Linux Foundation in 2008 for a focus on Linux for Web 2.0  Applications like Adobe® Flash® Player and Adobe AIR™. Currently Adobe holds a silver membership status with the Linux Foundation. So why in the world do they not have any Creative Cloud Programs available in Linux without the need for WINE and other such workarounds. I think it's a sucky move to support the Linux Foundation and use Linux in the back-end while not doing anything to support actual Linux users who have for at least a decade requested Adobe desktop products on Linux. Sure it's going to take a lot of manpower, financial resources, etc. But to truly support Linux and the Linux Foundation I think it's necessary that y'all do make things like Photoshop and Lightroom available for the Linux desktop. In any regards the wider Linux community would most likely help with testing and debugging programs. We're used to it.

[WaywardHam]

Hi MesumHussain & Everyone Else,

You have some interesting ideas. Let's discuss some of them.

I like the idea of Google Android and Adobe.. but Google's policies and
practices are obviously /not/ what I or many others would want to bother
with.  I'll be interested to see what comes of it if there's progress
though!

*Is Adobe /much/ less relevant?*

I love Da Vinci Resolve, Krita, Scribus, Audacity, and many other apps
that compete with Adobe. I'm glad you've found alternatives that work
for you, MesumHussain.

That said, everyone is different, and despite your reasonable view
point.... There are a /lot/ of reasons to use Adobe software over
competitors, and /none/ of the reasons most people use and want Adobe
have anything to do with age or general recalcitrance. /Many/ "older IT
nerds" have tried more "new software" over the years than most members
of your generation. We love new software, but we also value the
reliability, independence, control, and often substantially higher
capabilities of locally installed apps. That's not something we see a
lot of in cloud based apps... and in many cases, it's getting worse...
even with Adobe's offerings.

The reasons most people I know use use Adobe include:

1. In most professional/corporate media situations, where collaborators
/expect/ Adobe files or complete Adobe compatibility... none of the
software you've listed would be acceptable. In order to get work,
you are /expected/ to work collaboratively with whatever software
the /company/ uses to save time and avoid issues. Most companies
still use Adobe.
2. I agree that there's definitely a global and technological push
toward the increased use of cloud-based apps (or "software as a
service", otherwise known as SAAS).  Some of it probably
/is/ eroding Adobe's stranglehold over the industry. However, in
contrast to point one,//there are many places, many work-related
issues/requirements, and many regulatory reasons where connection
speeds are too slow, the required bandwidth too high, or policies in
place that prohibit the use of pure cloud apps in an efficient and
profitable manner. A local app is the /only/ way many people can get
the job at hand, /done./
3. Say what you want about a lot of other software, I love DXO Photolab
and Capture One for raw processing, Affinity for subscription free
image editing that has features I can't find in DarkTable/GIMP,
Zerene for focus stacking, and Photomatix for HDR work. For my hobby
work, any of these apps are perfectly fine. I use Reaper instead of
Audition because I like the features of Reaper more. Yet, Adobe apps
still have several /unique/ features which many people use /all/ the
time. I also think that Adobe is what many people of
/all/ generations, are trained to use. Some people just don't have
the time to spare right now to try each and every alternative for
each and every feature found in Adobe. That's hardly the implied
"oldies are set in their ways" rationale I interpreted from your
comments. If I'm wrong, and you didn't mean that, I'm sorry.

You seem to have interpreted my intentions backwards. Yes, I did ask for
Adobe to consider making a Linux version. However, thread is /more
/about addressing the rising displeasure with Windows' lack of
privacy/security/end user rights, the overpriced hardware of Apple gear,
and giving people an option they /might actually want!/

....Which as stated in my original post includes the combination of:

* A free, private, open source OS that /works /on almost any hardware,
* Affordable /quality/ hardware, and
* The ability to use commercial industrial-standard software when needed.

Schools want it, companies (outside of the IT industry) want it,
individuals who own their computer and reasonably expect to use it they
way /they/ desire... /definitely/ want it. We're already seeing this
with commercial games now running on  SteamOS (Based on Arch Linux), and
the /tripling/ of the total number of active devices using Bazzite which
again is another Linux OS optimized for commercial games. That tripling
of devices happened in just 8 months! Freed from running Windows
bloat... games frequently run /better/ on Linux than Windows,  sometimes
even with /inferior/ hardware. So whether you're aiming for a better
gaming experience, or maximising the performance of existing hardware to
save money... imagine if those benefits could be applied to Adobe software!

I started this thread because I /know/ people need to use Linux for
reasons that are just as important as the reasons people use Adobe
listed above. Yes, you can emulate, dual boot, or virtualise entire
Windows systems to get Adobe to work on Linux-like systems, but it's
tedious, expensive, overly complex, and not to mention, less stable than
native apps. In short, it wastes time and computational resources....
and it would be /great/ if Linux had games /and/ Adobe compatibility.

Giving users from all walks of life the ability to save money, and do
things their own way would be provide competitive advantage to anyone
brave enough to take the Linux challenge up.

I just hope this inspires more discussion, ideas, and hopefully actions
by invested parties.

All the best, everyone, and thanks Mesum for contributing!

Harmo.

[MesumHussain21879351h77v]

@WaywardHam thanks for your detailed respons. 

I do think you are drastically underestimating the capabilities and openness of people nowadays when it comes to software. One of the reasons Linux is becoming popular nowadays is that people are not clinging to Windows (the traditional OS) and more open towards alternatives. 

Same applies to Adobe. People are very open to alternatives which works cross platform. Especially if they offer a free tier for basic users. That includes a huge number of Youtubers and Social Media Influencers (they don't want to spend money until their account is very popular). Those are the kind of people by the way, who would rather pirate Adobe apps if they don't want to learn a new app which is free (but I think most are open to trying out free alternatives). And replacing Adobe apps is much easier compared to replacing Windows (which is an OS), if people are ditching Windows then just imagine how irrelevant Adobe is becoming nowadays.

You are saying that most new users are taught Adobe by default. Well most users grew up using Chromebooks in their schools and iPads at their homes. They didn't had Adobe to play around with as kids, they already learnt skills like video editing or photo editing on other apps which are available as mobile apps or webapp and run on Chrome OS, iOS and Android. 

And those tools are not bad. With WebAssembly you can literally make webapps as good as native apps, using any language you want. Those webapps are competent enough to rival Adobe head on. 

So seeing the current market, I would say most of the creative people are from the younger generation making content on social media (as opposed to old people working in companies with strict rules on file types). These are the people who grew up using Chromebooks and iPads and open to other alternatives than traditional ones if they offer better value. 

By not taking iPad OS, Chrome OS (Webapps which can run on any OS including Linux) and Android seriously over many years, I think Adobe has already set itself into a place where it will become less relevant over the coming years.

As far as your dismissal of Android Laptop is concerned, we should remember that it's the spiritual successor of Chromebooks. Kids are already well accustomed to Google ecosystem on Chromebooks. I am very positive that it's not gonna fail. Ignoring it would be a big mistake, considering that it's users are going to be the future workforce.

[Sean30206362811r]

@WaywardHam This guy gets it.

@MesumHussain21879351h77v 

You make some valid points about younger generations, but are missing some crucial ones.

The rules and policies of professional business aren't arbitrary and just becuase some young kids are finding success doesn't exclude them from coming to the same conclusions the corporations and professionals come to with how these tools should be used.

As for webkit, yes, they come a long way but are completely useless when it comes to workflows and storage requirements, especially for video.

I think everyone is going to realize sooner or later that the cloud has been and always will be a potential bait/switch where you're suckered in with a sweet deal just to find out you're paying more than you would have manging your data internally. Not just that, but you've lost your privacy, control and potentially your own data to anothe entity all together.

Why should the poeple in your example, who are not using Adobe tools at all, even be part of this conversation.

People who need to use these tools, who are customers, who see the direction Apple and MS are taking with their OS. We want an alternative. That's the ask.

[A.L.5E2E]

Hundreds have people have requested native support for Linux (not cloud software - local installs) but IMO it deserves a renewed look specifically now because of the end of windows 10 support. Older Windows 10 computers without upgraded TPM cannot move to Windows 11, and the remaining best option is Desktop Linux. 

However, for creative users this will would be a lot easier with support from Adobe for CC on Linux. The next best alternative is to move away from Photoshop and CC altogether and to move to other softwares. This is not an idea solution for Adobe nor for customers, and this is something many people have been asking for over a rather long time.

...if there was ever a right time for this, it is now. 

[kglad]

sure thing.

[Peru Bob]

Hundreds have people have requested native support for Linux

By @A.L.5E2E

...a drop in the bucket.

[A.L.5E2E]

Hundreds of replies does not mean hundreds of people. This should be obvious, no? Only a small number of users actually post on the forums. Pretty diengenuous reply tbh. 

Secondly - this is a circular issue. People that are holding back from moving to Linux is partly due to lack of support from major softwares they require for their daily workflow on the OS. Then those software community members (you - case in point) point to smaller number of Linux users as the problem...

It's not Windows apps in general. WINE exists. It's not Steam any more, it's not Blender, it's not Office (all are working to some degree on Linux). It's **Adobe** and a few other roadblocks. 

[kglad]

this request has been made (using the same arguments) for many years.

[Som1Else]

As the title says: Many users don't like to update to Windows 11 and will switch to Linux (including me) in the near future eventually. You'll loose these users as (potential) customers. There will also be a need for software similar to premiere pro and AE. You either fill that empty slot or someone else might. 😉

[kglad]

good luck with linux.

[Peru Bob]

or someone else might

By @Som1Else 

...be wasting resources chasing a minimally profitable or money losing venture.

I may be wrong, but I doubt serious video professionals will embrace Linux.

[Nancy OShea]

The motion picture industry uses Adobe Premiere Pro on state-of-the-art Windows or Apple desktop systems. 

'Nuff said. 

[kglad]

<>

[MesumHussain21879351h77v]

Honestly I think at this point targetting WebAssembly to make a natively running webapp or targetting WINE/Proton makes a lot of sense for Adobe.

Especially when so many other companies have demonstrated that it's possible to successfully support Linux through these approaches.

Valve has really debunked all the myths of everyone claiming that it's hard to support Linux because of fragmentation and there is not a userbase to cater to. Who could have thought people would prefer gaming on Steam OS instead of Windows because of the better performance. 

We never know, there might be a good number of people really interested in using Adobe apps on Linux too. You guys should try targetting Proton, who knows, Adobe apps too might just perform better on Linux just like video games.

[kglad]

yes, wait for it.

[Nancy OShea]

Adobe knows who butters their bread, and it's not gamers. It's creative professionals on Windows & Apple devices.  

[Arjun VK]

The only reason why some of the "professionals" still using windows is the availablity of adobe applications 

It's doesn't imply that "professionals will always use windows or apple". They don't have a choice 

[Arjun VK]

If a small company like blackmagic design can do this for da Vinci resolve, adobe is also capable of doing it. But they won't maybe because they don't want to spend their resources to something which will not get them profit for a long term or maybe they don't find linux users as potential customers. Whatever the reason they are not going to do anything for linux.

So linux users can switch to alternative softwares which will actually work on Linux. If they really need to use Adobe products they can dual boot windows to their devices. I don't think either of these solutions are a hard thing to do

[MesumHussain21879351h77v]

@Arjun VK  Adobe is totally forgetting the Chrome OS and Android users which can become potential customers when they grow up. 

Android is bringing Linux app support and the official way to run any desktop app on Chrome OS is running Linux apps in it's Linux container. 

So Adobe is really putting itself at a disadvantage by not supporting Linux, especially when the popularity of Windows is going down and Google is on the brink of releasing Snapdragon X Elite powered Android laptops, introducing a new desktop OS into the market.

The least Adobe can do is support Proton. 

Better safe than sorry.

[kglad]

linux is a lost cause.  android (and ios) adobe already supports.

[MesumHussain21879351h77v]

@kglad somebody said Linux is a lost cause huh?

https://eu-os.eu/ 

Btw European Union is the same organisation which forced Apple to adapt USB-C. It's kinda big deal. Look up European Union.

Although it's just a proof of concept as of now, don't underestimate the power of EU. If they embrace Linux as their official OS, there will be an entire continent cheering for FOSS. 

[kglad]

10 years ago, same arguments.  10 years from now, same arguments.

[MesumHussain21879351h77v]

@kglad 10 years ago the world was a different place, now it's much different, and 10 from now it's going to be even more different. 

We have so much tech which helps a lot in making apps cross platform and companies are using those. Cross platform is so common nowadays that people take it for granted. And literally every cross platform tech supports Linux too. 

People are more tech savvy nowadays. They literally grew up using iPads and smartphones. Unlike the old days when a PC was a rare commodity. They know how to take tech decisions for themselves..... Aren't getting limited by what's pre-installed and popular.

Youtubers like PewDiePie, OS like Chrome OS and Steam OS, etc. are bringing peoples attention towards Linux. I think you are gravely underestimating the relevance of Linux in today's world because you are viewing the market trends through a 10 years old lens.

If you fail to understand the trends, you will face the consequences. 

Windows became a great example for this when they underestimated the relevance of smartphones and failed to adapt.

[kglad]

and it will be different 10 years from now. and who knows, maybe linux will be over 10% usage by then.