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Decreasing leading on text with a soft return- why can I not do it?

Community Beginner ,
Jan 12, 2023 Jan 12, 2023

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Community Expert ,
Jan 12, 2023 Jan 12, 2023

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In your prefs Type section is Apply leading to entire paragraph checked?

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Community Expert ,
Jan 12, 2023 Jan 12, 2023

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Hi @JR86:

 

Soft returns simply start a new line within a paragraph, they don't impact the leading. 

 

~Barb

2023-01-12_17-39-49 (1).gif

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 13, 2023 Jan 13, 2023

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Okay, when I highlight as you have they will all move BUT when I select the only the line with the soft return it will not decrease.

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Community Expert ,
Jan 13, 2023 Jan 13, 2023

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I've struggled to figure out the actual question here since I first read it. I think you might be confusing leading — which is the old term for "spacing between lines of text" and (usually) means "within a paragraph" in modern use — and spacing above/below, which is a different setting that applies only to the top and/or bottom of a paragraph.

 

With a soft return — something that should be used very little, if at all in modern typeset documents — leading, line spacing, will work on all the lines of that paragraph. However, spacing above or below will not, since a soft return is not an actual paragraph break.

 

Does that change the way you see what you're looking at?

 


┋┊ InDesign to Kindle (& EPUB): A Professional Guide ┊ (Amazon) ┊┋

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 13, 2023 Jan 13, 2023

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I figured out what I was doing wrong. 
The entire line must be selected (including the hidden soft return) to decrease the leading.

Solutions:
1. highlight the line using click & drag left to right(dragging the opposite direction won’t select the hidden character)
2. Tripple-click the line you want to select

 

Jory26978771363g_2-1673634304735.png

 

 

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Community Expert ,
Jan 13, 2023 Jan 13, 2023

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Okay.

 

For the record, though, that's the kind of spot-format, hack-and-slash layout practice that is best avoided for many reasons. There are better, more orthodox and 'more stable' ways to make such text adjustments.

 

FWIW, you can also use Shift-End to select the end of a line including any terminating return. (Home, Shift-End to select a whole line.)

 


┋┊ InDesign to Kindle (& EPUB): A Professional Guide ┊ (Amazon) ┊┋

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Community Expert ,
Jan 13, 2023 Jan 13, 2023

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I have to ask WHY you would want this single line to have smaller leading than the rest of the paragraph?

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 13, 2023 Jan 13, 2023

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I'm doing this to create different leading between the article titles, bylines, and body text. I am using the push-pull method for laying out my text in bulk and applying character styles to change the styles for the titles and bylines, which also come with different leading.

 

I'm open ears to more orthodox methods.


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Community Expert ,
Jan 13, 2023 Jan 13, 2023

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One style per paragraph — in your case, Title, Byline and Body Text, or whatever. That's the whole purpose of paragraph styles, it's integral to using a tool like ID to its strongest advantages, and it would allow universal adjustment of the spacing with one setting.

 

Spot formatting, as poor a practice as it is by the instance, is a very poor practice when used for document-wide layout.

 


┋┊ InDesign to Kindle (& EPUB): A Professional Guide ┊ (Amazon) ┊┋

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Community Beginner ,
Jan 13, 2023 Jan 13, 2023

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Will this book being advertised in your replies help me clean up my flow?

"Word & InDesign to Kindle & EPUB: a Pro Guide (Amazon)"

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Community Expert ,
Jan 13, 2023 Jan 13, 2023

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No, that's a very specialized book dealing in just what the title says.

 

There are quite a few good tutorials out there; some of the others here might be able to recommend a specific one. But learning the basics of InDesign, especially how to use Paragraph and Character styles effecitvely, will go a long ways towards making your work faster and more efficient.

 

Do a search on that topic and you'll likely find some good pages and videos on those basics. And (at least, once you have a very basic grasp) feel free to ask questions here — it's why we're all here. 🙂

 


┋┊ InDesign to Kindle (& EPUB): A Professional Guide ┊ (Amazon) ┊┋

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Community Expert ,
Jan 13, 2023 Jan 13, 2023

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For training, my best 2 recommendations are:
quote

I'm doing this to create different leading between the article titles, bylines, and body text. I am using the push-pull method for laying out my text in bulk and applying character styles to change the styles for the titles and bylines, which also come with different leading.

I'm open ears to more orthodox methods.

By @JR86
 

 

Your process sounds so-o-o-o long and painful. Ugh!  And I don't know what a "push-pull" method of layout is.

 

The theory that @James Gifford—NitroPress describes works for all kinds of documents. Paragraph styles format full paragraphs of text — no matter how long or short the paragraph is. Could be a couple of words for a title or subhead, could be a long paragraph of body text. With one mouseclick, a Paragraph style formats everything before the paragraph return symbol ¶

 

Character styles are used for one or more words within a paragraph that are formatted different, such as making these words bold and red.

 

Sample 1: No formatting applied.

Styles_001.png

 

Sample 2: Basic Paragraph styles for the different lines of text.

Styles_002.png

 

Sample 3: Same Paragraph styles, but they've been edited to use different fonts, sizes, leading, space before/after the paragraph, etc.

Styles_003.png

 

Hope this helps!

 

|    Bevi Chagnon   |  Designer & Technologist for Accessible Documents
|    Classes & Books for Accessible InDesign, PDFs & MS Office |

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Community Expert ,
Jan 13, 2023 Jan 13, 2023

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And in a case whre you have

Title

Byline

Body text

you will want to set up a "Next Style" heirarchy so pressing Enter will automatically change the styles (you'll most likely have to reset to Title maually, though, if you have more than one body paragraph).

Next Style can also be used to format a large multi-paragraph selection by right-clicking the name of the first style to be used in the block and choosing Apply [paragraph stylename] and next style.

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Community Expert ,
Jan 13, 2023 Jan 13, 2023

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LATEST
quote

I'm open ears to more orthodox methods.

By @JR86

 

All who have replied so far describe standards and practices that will serve you well when you learn them, because this isn’t just an InDesign thing. It will help you everywhere. The way to hierarchically structure documents using headings, paragraph styles, character styles, paragraph spacing, and line spacing (leading) is basically the same across Microsoft Word and other word processors, InDesign which came later and picked up those standards, and now styles in CSS (for web design) and in EPUB (for ebooks). You can learn the structured hierarchy once and use it across applications and media, as a transferable and marketable skill set for your career.

 

For example, the hierarchical way word processor paragraph styles can cascade formatting and rules from headings on down to paragraph text is the basis for why the web design standard CSS stands for Cascading Style Sheets. The whole system saves an incredible amount of time when formatting — and saves even more time when you have to re-format consistently throughout a long document or entire website.

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Community Expert ,
Jan 13, 2023 Jan 13, 2023

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Hi @JR86 , Check your Type>Apply Leading to Entire Paragraphs Preference, which @Peter Spier suggested in his first reply. With it unchecked any character or insertion point can have its own leading—the insertion point with the largest leading sets the leading for the line:

 

Screen Shot.png

 

 

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