Problem with flowing text into a text frame with "Type on Path"

[Shlomit Heymann]

Hello,

I have reported this issue in prerelease but recieved no answer so I decided to post it here too. (I could not remember if I did or not but couldn't find that I did).

It's been a longe time since I wanted to report this behavior (perhaps someone did), but for some reason I did not. I came to find this problem when I was working on a unique job but I will only describe the problematic part.

I created a text frame and made it's frame into "Type on Path". I then inserted a horizontal stroke with baseline shift so It will always be on the same distance from the top when I change the text frame's height. The text frame was also defined with Text Wrap (Jump to next column). I did it because there is no way to give a stroke to one side of a text box or any other graphic object (like you can do in a table cell).

The text frame was placed on a parent page, on both sides of the parent spread and was threaded (In my case from Right to Left) like this:

I then went to page 1 I loaded the text I had in another text frame on the pasteboard and shift+Clicked the frame on the first page to auto flow it into these frame I created in the Paren Spread. InDesign didn't recognize that they are threaded in 2 ways:

1. The text flew into the first frame but then it flew into the type on path area.

2. InDesign flew the text only to the Right side pages and ignored that the text frame was threaded.

When a text frame is set with "Type on Path" area,  InDesign prefers to flow the loaded text into that area and will ignore the threaded text frame.

I hope I managed to explain it as I find it a bit complicated.

I did a test on a Right to Left document and also on a Left to Right document and found the same behavior but I only tested in on my Middle Eastern version. 

I also created a video that shows what I was doing.

Can you create this behavior too?

Thank you,

Shlomit

[Shlomit Heymann]

@Eugene Tyson  I understand but there you go. I reported a problem on the Middle Eastern version. Not on the US version. BTW,  still didn't tell me what happens if you turn off in preferencrs Type>Smart Text Reflow and then try to flow the loaded text with alt+shift on first frame on the first page where you don't have more pages. Can you please try that for me? It's just to confirm that you don't have this problem when the defenitions are set like that.

Thank you,

Shlomit

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Shlomit Heymann

I always have this auto flow option disabled - so I think my test confirms that problem also exists in non ME version.

[Shlomit Heymann]

@Robert at ID-Tasker Yes, I saw your comments earlier (thank you for that) but I wanted to cofirm it also with @Eugene Tyson who said he's unable to get this result and I think I found out why. So this is happening in both versions. I will add it to my bug report. 🙂

[Shlomit Heymann]

@Eugene Tyson instead of adding pages and alt+click each text frame, have you tried to alt+shift and then click in order for Indesign to flow all the text and add pages?

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Shlomit Heymann

Adding a line could be easily scripted after you finish your document(s). 

[Shlomit Heymann]

@Robert at ID-Tasker I didn't know that. It will be a good idea if Adobe will not fix this bug. Thank you. 🙂

[Eugene Tyson]

Bugs can take long times to fix after initially reported. Plus it may not be reported by many - whereas there might be more pertinent bugs to fix or put it this way, higher up the list to fix.

I have provided several workarounds, one involving the method you've used but I tweaked it so it worked

Also my other method of using the Paragraph Border setting which absolutely works - I attached a file.

@Robert at ID-Tasker suggests a script might work.

@Rene Andritsch has offered an unconventional method of using a drop shadow above the frame to create the line by tweaking the settings.

All these methods work. 

As you have live projects with 100s of pages to get through - I suggest you ditch the buggy method for now and concentrate on the methods that do work. 

[Nick Passmore]

Rene's suggestion for using a drop shadow is very clever but when I tried to replicate it, although it looks right in InDesign, it seems to disappear when exported to PDF.

I think Robert is right and a script is going to be the best solution.

If you created two object styles (Floating Rule and Top-Ruled Text Frame say) a script could:

• Delete every instance of Floating Rule 
• Find every instance of Top-Ruled Text Frame
• For each Top-Ruled Text Frame draw a rule x points above and apply the Floating Rule object style

I think you are working on a Mac. If so I could have a go at writing something in AppleScript to do this.

[Robert at ID-Tasker]

@Nick Passmore

I think you can skip the part of looking for Top-Ruled Text Frame - just process all TFs of the selected Story.

[Nick Passmore]

Good point Robert.

[Nick Passmore]

@Robert at ID-Tasker The advantage of using an object style for the text frames and deleting all the rules at once is that it avoids the need to keep track of which rules to delete if there are multiple stories.

Anyway here's a brute force attempt. Takes about 30 seconds for 500 text frames. (The user is given the option to see each frame selected before the rule is drawn — but that makes it much slower of course.) 

@Shlomit Heymann Usual caveat, try it on a copy of any file first.

use AppleScript version "2.4" -- Yosemite (10.10) or later
use scripting additions

property RuleOffset : 12
property RuleStyleName : "Floating Rule"
property TextFrameStyleName : "Top-Ruled Text Frame"

tell application id "com.adobe.InDesign"
	set SW to (button returned of (display dialog "Select each text frame?" with title "FEEDBACK" buttons {"Yes", "No"} default button "No"))
	delay 0.1
	if SW is "No" then
		set ShowWorking to false
	else
		set ShowWorking to true
	end if
	activate
	tell document 1
		set FR to object style RuleStyleName
		set TRTF to object style TextFrameStyleName
		try
			delete (every graphic line whose applied object style is FR)
		end try
		set AllFrames to every text frame whose applied object style is TRTF
		repeat with f from 1 to count of items of AllFrames
			set NextFrame to (item f of AllFrames)
			if ShowWorking is true then
				select NextFrame
			end if
			set {y1, x1, y2, x2} to (geometric bounds of NextFrame)
			set WhatPage to (parent page of NextFrame)
			tell WhatPage
				set NewLine to (make new graphic line with properties {geometric bounds:{(y1 - RuleOffset), x1, (y1 - RuleOffset), x2})
			end tell
			set applied object style of NewLine to FR
		end repeat
	end tell
end tell

[Eugene Tyson]

Paragraph Border works flawlesssly - as far as I can see - I put a test file up so you can check it out.

[Nick Passmore]

I did download your file Eugene and it does indeed work flawlessly so long as each text frame starts with a new paragraph but I'm not sure that is what the OP wants — though I may have missed something.

[Rene Andritsch]

@Nick Passmore Thanks – i totally forgot to write a PDF and can confirm that the effects are not handled correctly on output. I will log a bug report for this.

[Rene Andritsch]

@Nick Passmore I tried it with an Export to JPG from InDesign and that worked as intended – weird.

[Nick Passmore]

@Rene Andritsch Curiouser and curiouser!

[Eugene Tyson]

Yeh but you're not doing it the way that works. 

If it was me I'd ditch the method that doesn't work and find a method that does work.

My method is not so different.

I didn't deem it necessary to do the steps you say I've missed.

So yes I skipped some non essential things from my point of view.

In my way yes I filled with placeholder text but only ot have text to copy and paste to fill the pages

Regardless, the way I've done it works.

The way you've done it doesn't work.

[Rene Andritsch]

@Shlomit Heymann have you tried to achieve the line above with a bit unconventional settings for a drop shadow and some fill and stroke (to hide the rest of the drop shadow)? My screenshot is in German but you can see the entry fields that are populated to recreate it. In my case I applied the effect to the Fill. You can then apply this as an Object Style to your text frames. Maybe that also solves your issues as you are no longer in need of that horizontal stroke.

[Eugene Tyson]

Nice idea!