Huge color difference in LR Develop Tab vs LR Web Tab - please help!

[Ania5D7C]

I'm reaching to hopefully get some insight to a recent problem I'm having with LR! I'll finish editing my photos in the Develop tab, switch over to the Web tab (inside LR) and the colors are incredibly off: way too saturated and orange compared to what I see when I'm in Develop. The colors I see in the Web tab of LR are much more similar to what I see in my online gallery hosting site as well as my iPhone, so I think the issue is with the Develop window. I understand there will always be slight variations in how the colors display across different programs, however, why would they be displayed SO differently in the same program?! I then have to go back into Develop and blindly desaturate until it looks acceptable in the Web tab. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

[johnrellis]

There is (or was) a long-standing bug that Adobe has never reported as fixed. The Web module uses (or used) the Chromium Embedded Framework, the web engine inside the Chrome browser.  The version of CEF it uses (or used) assume the display is sRGB, rather than using the display's assigned color profile. So if you're on a wider-gamut display (as most new ones are), the colors in the Web module will look oversaturated.

Most browsers are fully color managed these days, so if you publish the Web gallery and then view it in a color-managed browser, it should look reasonably close to what you see in Develop.

I haven't retested the bug since LR 8 in 2018 -- I think relatively few people use the Web module these days.

Please do the menu command Help > System Info and report the exact version of LR you're running.

[johnrellis]

Moderator, @Rikk Flohr: Photography, please merge with this existing bug:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-bugs/p-web-module-doesn-t-use-display-s-color-profi...

[johnrellis]

Moderators, @Rikk Flohr: Photography, please hold off on merging this with the old bug:

https://community.adobe.com/t5/lightroom-classic-bugs/p-web-module-doesn-t-use-display-s-color-profi... 

That bug is fixed on Mac and probably fixed on Windows, though I'm no longer able to test it on Windows.

[Per Berntsen]

That bug is fixed on Mac and probably fixed on Windows, though I'm no longer able to test it on Windows.

By johnrellis

I can confirm that images display with correct colors in the Web module on my wide gamut monitor on Windows.

@Ania5D7C 

I suspect that you are running Windows 10 or 11, LrC is known to sometimes report the wrong Windows version.

If so, update your graphics driver to the latest version, which appears to be version 537.42.

https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/211715/en-us/

This link is for the studio driver, which is more thoroughly tested than the game ready driver, and better suited for image editing.

If updating the driver doesn't fix the issue, you probably have a defective monitor monitor profile.

I can give you instructions on how to check for this, but first tell us the make and model of your monitor.

[johnrellis]

As a very first step, before jumping ahead, let's verify which Windows version is actually running. The "Windows 8" is likely a LR reporting bug, but if the computer is running an old version of Windows (e.g. the version of Windows 11 with the basic color-management bug) that could significantly affect further steps.

[Ania5D7C]

The problem is, the "web tab" photos look like what is displayed on my iPhone and online gallery, not what the "develop tab" photo looks like. I went back photos I edited maybe 2 years ago, the "web tab" photos look exactly how I remember them, how I would've edited them, but the "develop tab" photos look boring, flat, and desaturated. 

Here is my system info:

Lightroom Classic version: 12.5 [ 202308091523-68a7abd6 ]

License: Creative Cloud

Language setting: en

Operating system: Windows 8  - Business Edition

Version: 6.2.9200

Application architecture: x64

System architecture: x64

Logical processor count: 16

Processor speed: 3.5GHz

SqLite Version: 3.36.0

CPU Utilisation: 1.0%

Built-in memory: 32677.3 MB

Dedicated GPU memory used by Lightroom: 1166.0MB / 8081.0MB (14%)

Real memory available to Lightroom: 32677.3 MB

Real memory used by Lightroom: 1843.7 MB (5.6%)

Virtual memory used by Lightroom: 3315.6 MB

GDI objects count: 764

USER objects count: 2790

Process handles count: 2237

Memory cache size: 38.7MB

Internal Camera Raw version: 15.5 [ 1595 ]

Maximum thread count used by Camera Raw: 5

Camera Raw SIMD optimization: SSE2,AVX,AVX2

Camera Raw virtual memory: 228MB / 16338MB (1%)

Camera Raw real memory: 331MB / 32677MB (1%)

System DPI setting: 96 DPI

Desktop composition enabled: Yes

Standard Preview Size: 2560 pixels

Displays: 1) 2560x1440

Input types: Multitouch: No, Integrated touch: No, Integrated pen: No, External touch: No, External pen: No, Keyboard: No

Graphics Processor Info: 

DirectX: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 (31.0.15.3623)

Init State: GPU for Export supported by default

User Preference: Auto

Application folder: C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Lightroom Classic

Library Path: D:\Ania's Photos\Lightroom\Lightroom Catalog-v12.lrcat

Settings Folder: C:\Users\Ania\AppData\Roaming\Adobe\Lightroom

Installed Plugins: 

1) batch.ai

2) Imagenomic Portraiture 3

3) Nikon Tether Plugin

Config.lua flags: None

Adapter #1: Vendor : 10de

Device : 1b81

Subsystem : 62763842

Revision : a1

Video Memory : 8081

Adapter #2: Vendor : 1414

Device : 8c

Subsystem : 0

Revision : 0

Video Memory : 0

AudioDeviceIOBlockSize: 1024

AudioDeviceName: $$$/dvaaudiodevice/SystemDefaultAndEffectiveDeviceName=System Default - Speakers (High Definition Audio Device)#{comment}DVAAU-4201250: Open the audio hardware preferences page.

AudioDeviceNumberOfChannels: 2

AudioDeviceSampleRate: 48000

Build: LR5x83

Direct2DEnabled: false

GL_ACCUM_ALPHA_BITS: 16

GL_ACCUM_BLUE_BITS: 16

GL_ACCUM_GREEN_BITS: 16

GL_ACCUM_RED_BITS: 16

GL_ALPHA_BITS: 0

GL_BLUE_BITS: 8

GL_DEPTH_BITS: 24

GL_GREEN_BITS: 8

GL_MAX_3D_TEXTURE_SIZE: 16384

GL_MAX_TEXTURE_SIZE: 32768

GL_MAX_TEXTURE_UNITS: 4

GL_MAX_VIEWPORT_DIMS: 32768,32768

GL_RED_BITS: 8

GL_RENDERER: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070/PCIe/SSE2

GL_SHADING_LANGUAGE_VERSION: 4.60 NVIDIA

GL_STENCIL_BITS: 8

GL_VENDOR: NVIDIA Corporation

GL_VERSION: 4.6.0 NVIDIA 536.23

GPUDeviceEnabled: false

OGLEnabled: true

I erased whatever comes after this, hopefully this is all you need to see. 

Thank you for your time and assistance!

[GoldingD]

Operating system: Windows 8  - Business Edition

Is that correctly identified? Surprised LrC v12 runs on that if true. LrC could be reporting that falsely.

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom-classic/system-requirements.html

ahh

DirectX: NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1070 (31.0.15.3623)

V536.23, That would  not be a driver for Windows 8. v477.44 would be the latest for Windows 8. Now for Windows 10 or 11, the current would be v537.42

[Ania5D7C]

Can you ELI5?

[GoldingD]

Can you ELI5?

By Ania5D7C

If you are asking if I can elaborate on:

V536.23, That would  not be a driver for Windows 8. v477.44 would be the latest for Windows 8. Now for Windows 10 or 11, the current would be v537.42

When I bring up :

https://www.nvidia.com/download/index.aspx

And search on your GPU, for various WINDOWS versions, v537.42 shows up for Windows 10 and for Windows 11, v477.44 shows up for Windows 8 and 8.1.

Also, when LrC reports 31.0.15.3623, that is via Windows, and at NVIDIA that is stated as 536.23.

As for the likelihood that you actually have Windows 8, Adobe states in the support page that LrC v12 will not run on 8. And the GPU version LrC states you have, is not for Windows 8 per NVIDIA. Did you perhaps upgrade from 8 to 10 or 11 at some point?

[johnrellis]

[This post contains formatting and embedded images that don't appear in email. View the post in your Web browser.]

In the screenshot you posted, on my color-managed display, the Develop image looks normal, if a little flat, while the Web image looks classically oversaturated in the oranges and reds, as you'd see if you displayed an image on a wide-gamut display without correct color management.

But there are too many loose ends here, so we need to carefully narrow down details one by one, without jumping ahead.

First, as GoldingD pointed out, LR is reporting you're on Windows 8 (6.2.9200).  LR Classic isn't supported on Windows 8, but LR may be reporting the wrong version.  But we need to verify, since Windows color management has changed significantly in the last many years.

In the Windows "start" or "run" box, type "system information" and run the System Information app. (I can't remember what Windows 8 might have looked like or called these things.)  That will show you authoritatively which version of Windows you're running. On Windows 11, it looks like:

Please post the screenshot of whatever you see here.

[Ania5D7C]

[GoldingD]

So a  ASUS TUF GAMING X570-PLUS (WI-FI) Motherboard with a BIOS v2407 (released 07/03/2020). Their is about 20 newer versions of the BIOS, some of those may improve performance, some stability, some compatibility, many security. At least one to allow for  Windows 11 (If your MB does not have a TPM installed, could be an issue).

That from:

https://www.asus.com/us/motherboards-components/motherboards/tuf-gaming/tuf-gaming-x570-plus-wi-fi/h...

If you do, be very very careful in updating the BIOS.

You might also want to visit that motherboards support site for how to check for and install MB driver updates.

Probably none of that related to your problem however.

[johnrellis]

So you've confirmed what @GoldingD  inferred, that you're not on Windows 8 but on the latest version Windows 10, 22H2 (10.0.19045), and there is no possibility you're on an older version of Windows 11 (which has color bugs). We can safely ignore that LR reports it as Windows 8 (6.2.9200). 

Given this, I agree with @Per Berntsen's and @GoldingD's suggested next steps:

1. Update your graphics driver to the latest Studio driver:

https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/211715/en-us/

Your installed version 536.23 is fairly recent, from 6/14/2023, though it's a Game Ready driver, and Adobe and Nvidia recommend the Studio drivers for Adobe apps.  This probably isn't the cause of your issue but worth doing regardless.

2. Test whether your display profile is corrupted or incompatible with LR by temporarily setting it to sRGB:

https://www.lightroomqueen.com/how-do-i-change-my-monitor-profile-to-check-whether-its-corrupted/

After setting it to sRGB, does an image look very similar in the Develop, Library, and Web modules?

[Jao vdL]

A factor only mentioned in passing it seems is the calibration of your display. If you don't calibrate your display using hardware, there might be a monitor profile installed by some driver that is corrupt. This is strangely common on windows machines. You should calibrate your display to see if it fixes things or use the test that @johnrellis lists of setting the display to sRGB. This just tests whether the monitor profile could be the problem, not whether it is. Only real solution in general is to calibrate.

[Ania5D7C]

I just installed the latest driver for the graphics card and there is no difference. As for screen calibration, I don't see why/how that would help considering the colors are different within LR. I had a profile on my monitor that was calibrated but it gave blacks and greys a pink hue, and tbh I couldn't stand it and have just switched to the standard profile. Below is another example of the color difference between the two tabs in Lightroom.

[Ania5D7C]

I'd like to add, that the "web tab" photo is how I actually edited the photo this past June, so I believe the way the color is displaying in the web tab to be accurate. The problem is within the Develop tab.

Now: photos edited to my liking in Develop tab = overly saturated and orange in Web tab

Past photos: colors in Web tab are correct to how I edited them (in the past) = now muddy/muted in Develop tab

[Ania5D7C]

Here is an example of unedited raws:

[Ania5D7C]

@johnrellis @GoldingD @Jao vdL @Per Berntsen 

[johnrellis]

"As for screen calibration, I don't see why/how that would help considering the colors are different within LR. I had a profile on my monitor that was calibrated but it gave blacks and greys a pink hue, and tbh I couldn't stand it and have just switched to the standard profile."

Library, Develop, and Web each have different code for displaying images, and if there is a compatibility issue with the display profile (as there is on Windows more frequently than on Mac), each module can display the image differently.

Try setting the profile to sRGB, a known profile that should produce the same results in each of the three modules, as described in the article linked above.  After setting it to sRGB, please provide screenshots of a problem photo from all three modules. 

[johnrellis]

And as a second step, repeat that experiment with sRGB assigned to the display, but with Preferences > Performance > Use Graphics Processor set to Off.  The GTX is a seven-year-old card, and both AMD and Radeon are less fastidious about supporting older cards.

[Jao vdL]

To get accurate color you have to calibrate your display. You cannot rely on built in profiles. They are always wrong. You have to use calibration hardware such as Spyder Pro or colormunki. Unfortunately there is no shortcut here. Some high end displays come with hardware calibration that is really good or have modes that emulate standard color spaces. On those you can set the monitor profile to the standard color space you set the monitor to. If you do not have one of these high end displays, you absolutely have to calibrate otherwise your color will always be wrong. There is unfortunately no shortcut.

[johnrellis]

I agree that calibration is essential to get accurate color. But we're trying to identify why there's a mismatch between Develop and Web -- is it another bug in the Web module, an incompatible profile, or some other issue? The most efficient first step is to temporarily assign sRGB to the display. If the Web module still displays different colors than Develop, then the issue is some issue other than an incompatible profile.  If the Web module displays similar colors, then we can proceed to recalibrating, ensuring the use of v2 profiles, etc.  First steps first.

[Ania5D7C]

Good morning @johnrellis @Jao vdL and thank you all for bearing with me, I truly appreciate it!

I've set the monitor profile as directed in that link, and sure enough, all 3 windows in LR are now the same, with the graphics processor set to Auto in LR. So, which ever profile I was using became corrupt? What next steps should I take? I know I can use the sRGB IE61966-2.1 for now, but since you've all been so helpful, would you be so kind as to throw some suggestions on what you'd do if you were me? 

Like I mentioned above, I've previously calibrated my screen uing a borrowed Colormunki | Display (cmundis) and once I finally had all the colors matched up on my screen, the greys and blacks had a horrible pink tint to them. I couldn't believe it so I re-did the whole process a couple more times but all color bars matched up near perfectly. So, I went with it for a few months but it was tough seeing shades of pink where you know there should be deep blacks for example. I ended up switching out of it to a pre-built one that's in the monitor. 

I'm so excited to have this color mismatch problem resolved! Again thank you all for your help so far!

[Jao vdL]

This means that very likely the pre-built profile from the monitor was corrupt. This is unfortunately very common. The images in your last post all look normal on my computer so the sRGB profile is likely not that far off from the actual monitor capabilities. That said, you should probably really try calibrating. It sounds like either the colormunki you used was defective or some setting was wrong so make sure to get a different calibrator and check all settings. You want to create a icc v2 matrix profile. Make sure that neutrals stay neutral indeed, so a test image with a greyscale gradient should look normal but a calibrator that works correctly should take care of that.