8 Bit Banding on 16 bit Clear Sky / Photoshop 22 / Sony a7R3

Question

Hey Folks,I'm glad that I'm not the only one with such a Problem, but I see that most of the Users have that Problem in Premiere and Videofiles. I use a Sony a7III & Sony a7RIII - Shooting in RAW - Opening my RAWs in Capture One, edit them a bit, export them as 16bit TIFF 300px ProPhotoRGB into Photoshop 22. No Problems so far. But my Wife told me, that my Instagram Pictures with Clear Sky or Slow Colour Gradients like Vignettes have like massive Bandings! I was shocked how many Pictures showed that Problem - so I thought - ok its Instagram - although I upload my Pictures with 1080 some of them have that Banding, some have not - So I look at the Pictures in Photoshop and that Banding starts there! In Capture One, no Banding, in Photoshop - The Banding Game is massive! What is the Problem here? I read that I have to add Noise but come one? That just can't be the Case right? I use a GeForce 1050 TI, I7 8700 Processor, 32GB DDR4 Ram, I tried to deactivate my graphic card acceleration -> Banding even worse! I tried to export from C1 in 8bit, 16 bit, sRGB, AdobeRGB, PhotoRGB, 72px, 240px, 300px, as PSD, as TIFF, as DNG.....I tried to open the RAW in C1, in Lightroom, in CameraRAW.....I think I tried every way and the Banding is always there....so this is my Last Unicorn....I tried to reach for Help in Forums, Friends and the Store I bought the Camera. No One can imagine what Problem I could have...."What? I never heard of a Problem like that, I think you do sth wrong!" OH REALLY? -.-  I will add some Pictures but I think most of you know what I'm talking about. Before I forget. I use Filters like NIK and DXO but all in 16bit - the Banding is already there when i first open the exported TIFF in PS. in C1 - no banding - after export as TIFF 16bit ProPhotoRGB in Photoshop -> BANDING! 3 Pictures are already with Instagram Compression - One is the JPG File after C1 Export. You will see the Banding already in the Upper Right Corner.... If anybody can help me, I will pay you for your Help because Photography is my Job. Stay healthy and thank you for your time and sorry for my German English... King Regards Tom

D Fosse · Accepted Answer

You will always encounter some banding when "stretching" data in insufficient bit depth. That's when it happens. In fact, that's the definition of banding.

I still suspect ProPhoto contributes. It's so large that the lower saturation "useful" data are extremely compressed compared to Adobe RGB (or DCI-P3). It's not necessarily a problem as long as it stays ProPhoto, but it can quickly become a problem when converted into any 8 bit pipeline like jpeg (with its own banding issues due to compression), or your monitor profile.

You're also using plugins here, which is another unknown factor, perhaps in combination with extreme adjustments in Lightroom.

Some lenses have a high degree of vignetting, which may require strong corrections.

Again - it cannot be emphasized enough: banding is cumulative. It's vey tempting to put the blame on a single component. Usually though, several things interact and pile up, until you suddenly notice it.

Oh, BTW: "no Eizo, normal Screens & TVs, where normal People watch Stuff. "

That's no argument. That's an argument for the opposite, a really good reason why you need a good monitor. You need to know your image is right before you publish. You can't do that on a crappy TV, it doesn't tell you anything at all. What other people use has nothing to do with it.

D Fosse · Answer

Several things going on here, but all ultimately have the same cause.

Banding happens in reduced bit depth, and banding is cumulative. If you're working with 16 bit data, any banding is in your display system.

8 bit data have only 256 discrete steps per channel, so an 8 bit file will always show banding in smooth gradients. A jpeg is always 8 bit, but in addition the jpeg algorithm compresses the color component much more aggressively than the luminance component, so that adds color banding on top of the "normal" 8 bit banding.

Quite aside from that, your display pipeline is 8 bits, video card, calibration tables, the display panel itself. TN panels are even 6 bits plus dithering to add the last two bits. So again, it is inevitable that you will see 8 bit banding on screen, even with a 16 bit file. The only way to avoid any banding on screen is to get a 10-bit capable monitor (usually quite expensive).

All these add up, and in some cases the result can be very pronounced and irregular banding with colored bands.

The standard way to deal with banding is to add a tiny amount of noise. Not so much that it's visible, just enough to break up the banding. A photograph usually has enough noise to conceal banding, but not always, particularly if it's very downsampled (like for web).

One important point: Lightroom, and probably also Capture One, uses dithering when it displays the image. Lightroom has no support for 10 bit monitors, but you will never see any banding in Lightroom because of the dithering.

I'm typing this on a laptop, but I'll look at the screenshots when I'm back at my workstation. One thing I can promise you, is that there are no problems with Sony a7riii files in Lightroom. I use that camera, plus an a7rii.

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