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alexsalvatoretrotta
Known Participant
October 10, 2022
解決済み

Warmer colors in Photoshop with Macbook Pro

  • October 10, 2022
  • 返信数 18.
  • 3937 ビュー

Hi everyone!
The problem I'm having is the photos appear in slightly warmer colors than the original image.
So it's not just about exporting, but directly viewing the image.
The same problem happens when using Lightroom.


- Macbook Pro 15 inch from 2015
- macOS Monterey, version 12.6 (latest)
- GP: Intel Iris Pro
- Photoshop version 23.5.1 (latest)
- Lightroom version 5.5 (latest)

 

The images I am working with have color profile Adobe RGB (1998), my working space is sRGB, when I open the image I select: "keep embedded profile", when exporting I select "Embed color profile" and "Convert to sRGB" .
I state that I have already read the thousands of threads here on the forum, but I cannot solve the problem in any way.
I have tried all the solutions but I don't understand what the cause is, I would like to understand first if it is a "problem", or simply the image is improved.
I did the same test with a windows pc, and the colors are kept the same, even when converted to sRGB.
I leave here 2 screens where you can directly see the difference between the 2 images, where the original is colder, while the open and exported one is warmer. And other screens with working settings.


Thanks to those who can help me!

このトピックへの返信は締め切られました。
解決に役立った回答 TheDigitalDog

Yes in this case looks like Preview cannot display colours correctly. I would not use it in the workflow.


I see a tiny visual difference in Preview of the three at 100% zoom. 

In Photoshop, the two JPEGs appear identical. In fact, if I use the Apply Image command to subtract them, they are pixel-for-pixel identical. 

I suppose I could make a screen capture from Preview of the two outlines and provide a deltaE (difference) report, but it's tiny and somewhat insignificant on this end. I don't know why Preview is having this issue, but Apple hasn't been as thorough in dealing with color management issues in the past few years, sadly. That Safari and Preview don't match indicates an Apple 'bug' (issue). 

The ColorSync Utility is also an Apple application you can test. It may or may not match Preview, and this CS utility has been even more buggy than others from Apple, so I don't expect good results. 

Bottom line is, Photoshop, Safari, and others are working correctly. And when others (at least Preview) aren't, the visual differences are really tiny. Preview or data? That can be analyzed with some work. But in the end, without Apple making an effort, it's kind of moot. 

返信数 18

TheDigitalDog
TheDigitalDog
Inspiring
October 11, 2022

Ok, if I understand, Export 1 (convert to profile then save JPEG ) and Export 2 match. This is what is expected and what I'm seeing too. Export 3 is the issue (bug?) and not how you should proceed. If this is the correct understanding, I think the next step, if even necessary is file a bug report and simply stop using Export 3.

Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
A
alexsalvatoretrotta作成者
Known Participant
October 11, 2022

@TheDigitalDog Exactly.
But what I see in Photoshop (starting from the original image itself), match with Export 3 (progressive jpeg), and not only, even with the various browsers (Chrome, Safari, Firefox), the only one that shows me the difference is Preview Mac. For this reason it is not clear to me who is right and who is not, and how to deal with export.

 

Here img_Adobe_PS_test (link Google Drive) I uploaded 3 images:

  1. img_00_original_adobe-rgb-1998.jpg: source image
  2. img_01_srgb_saveforweb.jpg: exported image, with save for web (details above)
  3. img_02_srgb_saveforweb_progressive.jpg: exported image with Progressive active, it is the same as export as.

 

With Mac Preview, I see img_01 and img_02 with different colors, the first more faithful to the original image while the second more red. I can't explain why since the color profile is the same.
If I open these 2 images in Photoshop, however, I see them exactly the same, the correspondence of what I see in Photoshop (starting from the original image) matches with img_02 (progressive).

 

Maybe to make a final check, I ask you if you can download the attached images, view them with your Mac or Windows viewer:

  • do you see color differences between the 3 images?

 

Open them in Photoshop:

  • do you see differences between the 3 images?
  • The image you are viewing, which of the 3 images does it correspond to?

 

Thank you!

A
alexsalvatoretrotta作成者
Known Participant
October 11, 2022

I see a tiny visual difference in Preview of the three at 100% zoom. 

In Photoshop, the two JPEGs appear identical. In fact, if I use the Apply Image command to subtract them, they are pixel-for-pixel identical. 

I suppose I could make a screen capture from Preview of the two outlines and provide a deltaE (difference) report, but it's tiny and somewhat insignificant on this end. I don't know why Preview is having this issue, but Apple hasn't been as thorough in dealing with color management issues in the past few years, sadly. That Safari and Preview don't match indicates an Apple 'bug' (issue). 

The ColorSync Utility is also an Apple application you can test. It may or may not match Preview, and this CS utility has been even more buggy than others from Apple, so I don't expect good results. 

Bottom line is, Photoshop, Safari, and others are working correctly. And when others (at least Preview) aren't, the visual differences are really tiny. Preview or data? That can be analyzed with some work. But in the end, without Apple making an effort, it's kind of moot. 


Exactly.

 

The important thing is that we see the same things, and that Photoshop doesn't see differences in colors.

 

Thanks for your help and your comments.

 

I also tried ColorSync, but what I see is identical to Preview.

 

That said, I will exclude Preview from the workflow and will export to jpg without progressive.

 

Thank you all!

    TheDigitalDog
    TheDigitalDog
    Inspiring
    October 10, 2022

    A few other observations. 

    If I open your Adobe RGB (1998) JPEG and convert to sRGB, I see no color change as expected.

    So part of this difference in color appears to be in how you exported this in the first place. Did you use Save for Web or similar? 

    If you simply use Convert to Profile and then save as sRGB and JPEG, do you see the color maintained as I do? 

    It could be an issue with the 'export' process or JPEG compression. We need more info about this and if indeed,  if you bypass this 'Export' and simply convert, maybe resize and save as JPEG, if the issue disappears. 

    Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
    A
    alexsalvatoretrotta作成者
    Known Participant
    October 11, 2022

    Hi @TheDigitalDog!
    thanks for your vital help.

     

    I had the opportunity to do several tests on another Macbook air, installed Photoshop latest version, with macOs older than mine.
    I tried the various exports and the results are exactly the same as mine, so thanks to this I rule out a broken display profile.

     

    For the original image I don't have too much exact information to answer, which I know are simple shots with Adobe RGB associated color profile in 8-bit raw camera, I don't think a particular job has been done, if not the classic steps.

     

    Dither is activated in the color settings.

     

    Anyway, I have done all possible export tests, and actually the change towards red appears here in the exported files.

     

    Export 1. I open the original image in PS > convert to sRGB > save: Match, the colors correspond to the original (99%, as you said there is a very slight difference)

     

    Export 2. Open the original image in PS > Save for web with: JPEG, Maximum quality 100%, Include ICC Profile active, Convert to sRGB active. The result of this export matches to Export 1.

     

    Export 3. Open the original image in PS > Save for web with: JPEG, Maximum quality 100%, Progressive active, Include ICC Profile active, Convert to sRGB active. This is the export I have been using since the beginning, and in this case the result is that the red is increased compared to the original image and Export 2.

     

    Export 4. Open the original image in PS > Export as with: JPEG, High Quality (7), Convert to active sRGB, Include active ICC Profile. The result is exactly the same as in Export 3, as Export as JPEG, by default it makes the image Progressive.

     

    So here the difference lies in the activation of Progressive JPEG, where if deactivated the colors of the image remain more faithful to the original, if activated the colors become warmer.
    The strange thing is that if I view all the exports on a browser, or load them into a website, the colors are exactly the same, and they all correspond to the Export 3/4.
    The other thing is that the original image I see in Photoshop corresponds exactly to the Export 3/4.
    So even if I export according to the Export 2/3 mode, and then upload to the web, I will still have a different result than my saving.

     

    Considering that my need is to have a compromise between:

    maintaining the fidelity of the colors of the original image, but that it is as close as possible to what I will see in the browser, so as to already have while saving a more real preview of what I will see on the web.

     

    The final question is:

    is it normal that the Progressive is active change the colors of the image making them warmer?
    Considering what my needs are in this specific case, what would be the correct method to export?

     

    Thanks!

    K
    Community Expert
    Kenneth KawamotoCommunity Expert
    Community Expert
    October 11, 2022

    I haven't used Progressive JPEG for more than a decade and I don't observe them in my daily life - may be because JPEGs are downloaded too quickly to show the progressive download process. I don't think you need to use it unless it's a requirement. Is your browser colour managed, by the way?

      TheDigitalDog
      TheDigitalDog
      Inspiring
      October 10, 2022

      I have your two examples and as far as I can see, all is fine. The very slight differences may be due to the different color spaces, I think. 

      I can drag and drop with the shift key one layer over to the other image. Of course, one MUST convert to maintain color appearance (not color numbers). They line up in perfect sync and as I toggle the layer on and off, I see no difference. 

      This is all as expected. 

      Yes, for some reason, one does appear a bit redder (both have a slight red caste). 

      Where did the original image data come from? Was this raw and then processed into Adobe RGB  (1998) originally? 

      Was the data at any time high bit (16-bit) that ended up in 8-bit per color? And if so, is Dither on or off in color settings? 

      Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
      A
      alexsalvatoretrotta作成者
      Known Participant
      October 10, 2022

      @TheDigitalDog 

      I tried to export the test file to sRGB, and what I see in Photoshop matches what I see in Preview Mac.

      In the img_Adobe_PS_test folder I uploaded the 2 files to be examined:

      • img_00_original_adobe-rgb-1998: The first is the original
      • img_01_export_srgb: the second is my export jpg (Progressive, with embedded profile, convert to srgb)


      Still with Mac Preview the 2 files do not match, while I noticed from the Google Drive preview that the 2 files match.

      TheDigitalDog
      TheDigitalDog
      Inspiring
      October 10, 2022
      quote

      I opened the link image http://www.digitaldog.net/files/2014PrinterTestFileFlat.tif.zip in Photoshop and Preview: Match.


      By @alexsalvatoretrotta

      OK, good. So now what we need to examine are your documents that do not match. Can you upload them to something like Dropbox, and label them, so we know what's what. 

      If you take that Printer Test file and Export to sRGB, it too matches sRGB in Preview? 

      Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
      A
      alexsalvatoretrotta作成者
      Known Participant
      October 10, 2022

      @TheDigitalDog 

      That's right, they should fit together but they don't.

       

      I opened the link image http://www.digitaldog.net/files/2014PrinterTestFileFlat.tif.zip in Photoshop and Preview: Match.

      So, with this image everything is regular.

       

      How can I fix it?

      TheDigitalDog
      TheDigitalDog
      Inspiring
      October 10, 2022
      quote

      Open Adobe RGB (1998) image (original) in Photoshop and Preview: does not match.


      By @alexsalvatoretrotta

      They should match. 

      Try this color reference image:

      http://www.digitaldog.net/files/2014PrinterTestFileFlat.tif.zip

      It is in Adobe RGB (1998). 

      Again, be sure they are at the same zoom ratio (100%). 

      Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
      A
      alexsalvatoretrotta作成者
      Known Participant
      October 10, 2022

      @TheDigitalDog 

      I try to explain it to you in a simpler way:

       

      • Open the sRGB image in Photoshop and Preview: Perfect Match!
      • Open Adobe RGB (1998) image (original) in Photoshop and Preview: does not match.


      The image I see with Mac preview is more faithful to the original with the correct colors, the one I see in Photoshop is with warmer colors.

       

      I know that the 2 color profiles have a different range of colors (one wider and one smaller for the web), but I expect the whites to more or less match.
      In fact, as I said in the previous threads, if I see the image in "Proof Colors"> sRGB, I see the colors faithful to the original image, displayed with Mac Preview.

       

      My need here is to export a series of images for the web, all of which are native with Adobe RGB 1998 profile, and stay as faithful as possible to the colors of the original and the intention of the photographer.

       

      How can I fix it? thank you!

      TheDigitalDog
      TheDigitalDog
      Inspiring
      October 10, 2022
      quote

      With Mac preview, the image exported from Photoshop matches exactly what I see in Photoshop, what doesn't match is the original image displayed by Preview versus the same image displayed in Photoshop.


      By @alexsalvatoretrotta

      Sorry, I'm not sure I'm understanding this difference. 

      "With Mac preview, the image exported from Photoshop matches exactly what I see in Photoshop": yes, it should do so. 

      So I'm confused by: "what doesn't match is the original image displayed by Preview versus the same image displayed in Photoshop."

       

      IF the original is in Adobe RGB (1998) and the exported image is in sRGB, and you're on a wide gamut display, you can expect a slight difference viewing the two; one has a smaller color gamut and the larger color gamut is visislbe on a wide gamut display. 

      So let's try apples to apples: Open the sRGB image in Photoshop and Preview: Match?

      Open Adobe RGB (1998) image in Photoshop and Preview: Match?

      Author “Color Management for Photographers" & "Photoshop CC Color Management/pluralsight"
      A
      alexsalvatoretrotta作成者
      Known Participant
      October 10, 2022

      Hi @TheDigitalDog,

       

      With Mac preview, the image exported from Photoshop matches exactly what I see in Photoshop, what doesn't match is the original image displayed by Preview versus the same image displayed in Photoshop.

       

      For the GPU I tried to deactivate and reactivate it in all apps (PS and LR).

      Nothing has changed.

       

      For the display color profile everything seems to be regular.
      Although I don't understand how to correct it, other than what I've already done.

      I'm afraid it's a "stupid" setting activated in photoshop by default (since I installed it in recent days after resetting the Macbook).

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